Why Jesus Said "I Never Knew You"?

[Hark]

The point is not that we can lose our salvation. Eternal security of the believer is not simply a Calvinist doctrine. In fact the vast majority of Baptist hold to it.

I believe in eternal security also, but there are two kinds of vessels in His House;

2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

That is why every believer is called to run that race by looking unto the author and finisher of our faith in laying aside every weight & sin in heeding the call to depart from iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

This is how vessels unto dishonor that are in iniquity, can become vessels unto honor in getting ready before the Bridegroom comes.

2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So you have to apply all of His words and rightly too with His help to see why Jesus is warning believers to be ready for the Bridegroom. There is a consequence for not being ready.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

We all should be exhorting every believer in being His disciple by running that race in getting ready to go by Him before the Bridegroom comes.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[Revmitchell]

The tribulation period is not a scourging. It is God's wrath on a sinful man.

Rev 6:17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"

Neither you nor I get to change the nature of God's wrath.

Further, believers (the church) cannot be subjected to the wrath of God.

1Th_5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[Hark]

Christians can lose their salvation is the point. Eternal security is conditional but Calvinists /Reformed Theology won't hear none of this.

I am not a Calvinist, but scripture testifies to eternal security;

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The bit about pre-trib was totally unnecessary to make this point as the pre-trib theory itself is full of holes

Only because it is hidden as scripture will testify to this as well.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The three measures are:

Christ the firstfruits; the pre trib raptured saints; O.T. saints & N.T. abiding saints at the Marriage Supper

They that be Christ's at His coming; those left behind and new saints;

The milleniel reign's generation.

Then the end comes which these three measures makes up the whole of the kingdom of heaven before the Son gives the kingdom back to the Father.

The problem with Matthew 24th chapter and 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter is that readers are not seeing two events of the gathering and His coming being mentioned. They only see one event, thus it is hidden because it is not being discerned with Him.

 

[Hark]

The tribulation period is not a scourging. It is God's wrath on a sinful man.

Rev 6:17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"

Neither you nor I get to change the nature of God's wrath.

Explain how the saints at the church at Thyatira are at risk of being cast into the bed of the great tribulation unless they repent?

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Is that God's wrath or not?

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Saints that live in sin, the Lord will judge, but they are still His people.

Further, believers (the church) cannot be subjected to the wrath of God.

1Th_5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Was Paul whistling dixie? Was he just filling the epistle with non essential warnings to believers? Why warn that saints can be partakers with them to receive God's wrath unless they still can?

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

This is not for salvation; this is for being received by the Bridegroom to attend the Marriage Supper as a vessel unto honor in His House in His honor.

To be a vessel unto dishonor is to be a saint that is a castaway to receive God's wrath as the Father will scourge and chasten every child He receives so that they may be partakers of His holiness.

Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Are you reading all of those relevant scripture or not? Explain them away if you still believe God as our Father is not going to chasten & scourge saints that live in unrepentant sinful lifestyle.

 

[utilyan]

Eternal Security is certainly in the bible:
Genesis 3
4The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!

Devilish

 

[Hark]

Eternal Security is certainly in the bible:
Genesis 3
4The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!

Devilish

Jesus's words are far more convincing.

John 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

 

[Revmitchell]

The children of disobedience are not saved people. Not everyone who is in the church and calls themselves Christians are Christians. True Christians do not suffer the wrath of God.

 

[utilyan]

Jesus's words are far more convincing.

John 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Its true he "should" lose nothing, its a better word then "won't".

John 3: 35“The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. 36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Why do you suppose he would tie "believing in the son" with "obey"?

The bible is packed with verses against Once saved always saved. Talking about 150 verses.


You know having a certificate, license, receipt, warm fuzzy feeling feelings that I'm eternally secure those are awesome. None however compare to God telling you to your face that you are saved and you will live. His direct word is more trust worthy then our own eyeballs.

Ezekiel

13“When I say to the righteous he will surely live, and he so trusts in his righteousness that he commits iniquity, none of his righteous deeds will be remembered; but in that same iniquity of his which he has committed he will die. 14“But when I say to the wicked, ‘You will surely die,’ and he turns from his sin and practices justice and righteousness, 15if a wicked man restores a pledge, pays back what he has taken by robbery, walks by the statutes which ensure life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 16“None of his sins that he has committed will be remembered against him. He has practiced justice and righteousness; he shall surely live.

^God can tell you to your face you are saved, you will surely live, you sin.......your out of there.
We see the vice versa, also.

The reason God does this is not some legalism, the rules and laws concerning sin are for your sake. God is perfect he doesn't need the rules around. Like a Father to a child its out of love for you. The worst part of sinning is in the sin itself. Its not some perk and the only bad thing about it is the punishment for it. The punishment is God's love and discipline. The sin itself is the horror and suffering above all punishment and hell. From a Saints perspective sinning and offending God is as unthinkable as slapping some infant baby.

When touching fire I knew right away that is a bad thing, didn't run off to do it again. It was just clearly wrong. I believe in the same manner God trains you and you will have a disdain for sin equal with touching fire.

 

[Hark]

Its true he "should" lose nothing, its a better word then "won't".

John 3: 35“The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. 36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Why do you suppose he would tie "believing in the son" with "obey"?

Try using the KJV.

John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

This is with the understanding of this prior verse.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The bible is packed with verses against Once saved always saved. Talking about 150 verses.

Be sure to compare that with the KJV at Bible Gateway with whatever version you are using before believing that.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 3:18&version=KJV;NIV

Jesus is warning believers to abide in Him as there are consequences for not abiding in Him. John 15:1-7 But that is not inferring loss of salvation, but for being His disciple to be received to the Marriage supper; John 14;1-3

You know having a certificate, license, receipt, warm fuzzy feeling feelings that I'm eternally secure those are awesome. None however compare to God telling you to your face that you are saved and you will live. His direct word is more trust worthy then our own eyeballs.

Ezekiel

13“When I say to the righteous he will surely live, and he so trusts in his righteousness that he commits iniquity, none of his righteous deeds will be remembered; but in that same iniquity of his which he has committed he will die. 14“But when I say to the wicked, ‘You will surely die,’ and he turns from his sin and practices justice and righteousness, 15if a wicked man restores a pledge, pays back what he has taken by robbery, walks by the statutes which ensure life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 16“None of his sins that he has committed will be remembered against him. He has practiced justice and righteousness; he shall surely live.

^God can tell you to your face you are saved, you will surely live, you sin.......your out of there.
We see the vice versa, also.

The reason God does this is not some legalism, the rules and laws concerning sin are for your sake. God is perfect he doesn't need the rules around. Like a Father to a child its out of love for you. The worst part of sinning is in the sin itself. Its not some perk and the only bad thing about it is the punishment for it. The punishment is God's love and discipline. The sin itself is the horror and suffering above all punishment and hell. From a Saints perspective sinning and offending God is as unthinkable as slapping some infant baby.

When touching fire I knew right away that is a bad thing, didn't run off to do it again. It was just clearly wrong. I believe in the same manner God trains you and you will have a disdain for sin equal with touching fire.

Interesting, but one may see the Father's chastening on His disobedient children left behind to face the coming fire on the earth as the same so that they will be the ones leading with Him on earth in bringing up the coming generation in the milleniel reign of Christ on earth.

God's New Covenant is why His faithfulness will stand with the faithless. This prophesy is in regards to His New Covenant by Jesus Christ.

Psalm 89:28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. 29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. 30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; 31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; 32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. 33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. 34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. 35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. 36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. 37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

Note the stripes mentioned in verse 32 above to see the stripes saints will receive for being in transgession, and thus not being ready.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

So in that sense, this fire will teach the saints left behind just how important it is not to live in sin so that they may be better in raising up the coming generation during the milleniel reign of Christ for having been burnt by that fire and for having received those stripes.

 

[Hark]

The children of disobedience are not saved people. Not everyone who is in the church and calls themselves Christians are Christians. True Christians do not suffer the wrath of God.

That would be why you would not see Jesus's warning as being directed towards saved believers in being ready by abiding in Him as His disciple.

Not every saved believer will live that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ as His disciple which is why many will not be ready.

 

[Hark]

The children of disobedience are not saved people. Not everyone who is in the church and calls themselves Christians are Christians. True Christians do not suffer the wrath of God.

Consider what Paul is addressing here of wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith and that no longer follow after the traditions taught of us and are quite disorderly in how we are to withdraw from them but not to treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers still.

2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;......

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Do consider that how a professing believer is still a brother even though he is no longer walking after the traditions taught of us and has become an unreasonable and wicked person not having faith.

So then you would have to consider how one loses faith.

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Putting oneself under the law is not the only thing that can void faith.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

The apostasy of believing that one can receive the Holy Spirit "again" with evidence of tongues is a departure from faith that Jesus Christ is in us ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 ) to familiar spirits that brings tongues without interpretation ( Isaiah 8:19 Matthew 12:39 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 ) .

So if you are wondering how any one can come to the Marriage Supper without his wedding garment, it is because his faith has been voided.

Matthew 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

If you ever wonder why the saints under the altar as coming out of the great tribulation were given white robes in Revelation, it is because they were not wearing their wedding garments to be received at the Marriage Supper.

 

[Revmitchell]

Consider what Paul is addressing here of wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith and that no longer follow after the traditions taught of us and are quite disorderly in how we are to withdraw from them but not to treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers still.

2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;......

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Do consider that how a professing believer is still a brother even though he is no longer walking after the traditions taught of us and has become an unreasonable and wicked person not having faith.

So then you would have to consider how one loses faith.

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Putting oneself under the law is not the only thing that can void faith.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

The apostasy of believing that one can receive the Holy Spirit "again" with evidence of tongues is a departure from faith that Jesus Christ is in us ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 ) to familiar spirits that brings tongues without interpretation ( Isaiah 8:19 Matthew 12:39 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 ) .

So if you are wondering how any one can come to the Marriage Supper without his wedding garment, it is because his faith has been voided.

Matthew 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

If you ever wonder why the saints under the altar as coming out of the great tribulation were given white robes in Revelation, it is because they were not wearing their wedding garments to be received at the Marriage Supper.

You keep applying scripture in reference to lost people as though they are Christians. You cannot be a believer and have your faith voided. Those who deny Christ will be denied before the Father. Those who are not walking with God on some level are not saved. There will be those who believed they were saved but Jesus will reject them at the judgment as not having known them.

Your unorthodox heresy is just odd. It is also very similar to the Millennial Exclusion heresy.

 

[utilyan]

Try using the KJV.

John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

This is with the understanding of this prior verse.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.



Be sure to compare that with the KJV at Bible Gateway with whatever version you are using before believing that.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 3:18&version=KJV;NIV

Jesus is warning believers to abide in Him as there are consequences for not abiding in Him. John 15:1-7 But that is not inferring loss of salvation, but for being His disciple to be received to the Marriage supper; John 14;1-3



Interesting, but one may see the Father's chastening on His disobedient children left behind to face the coming fire on the earth as the same so that they will be the ones leading with Him on earth in bringing up the coming generation in the milleniel reign of Christ on earth.

God's New Covenant is why His faithfulness will stand with the faithless. This prophesy is in regards to His New Covenant by Jesus Christ.

Psalm 89:28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. 29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. 30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; 31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; 32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. 33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. 34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. 35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. 36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. 37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

Note the stripes mentioned in verse 32 above to see the stripes saints will receive for being in transgession, and thus not being ready.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

So in that sense, this fire will teach the saints left behind just how important it is not to live in sin so that they may be better in raising up the coming generation during the milleniel reign of Christ for having been burnt by that fire and for having received those stripes.

Try reading the original Greek. (I know I can't )


John 3:36 is what it is:

ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν υἱὸν ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον· ὁ δὲ ἀπειθῶν τῷ υἱῷ οὐκ ὄψεται ζωήν ἀλλ' ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ θεοῦ μένει ἐπ' αὐτόν


ἀπειθῶν = apeithōn


Original Word: ἀπειθέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apeitheó
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o)
Short Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal
Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.


I quoted a NASB.
I love King James, I'll try to stick with it when talking with you, if that's what your comfortable with.
Checked the orginal greek here this website:
http://biblehub.com/greek/544.htm

 

[utilyan]

You keep applying scripture in reference to lost people as though they are Christians. You cannot be a believer and have your faith voided. Those who deny Christ will be denied before the Father. Those who are not walking with God on some level are not saved. There will be those who believed they were saved but Jesus will reject them at the judgment as not having known them.

Your unorthodox heresy is just odd. It is also very similar to the Millennial Exclusion heresy.

Anyone who can pick out a difference between Kindness and God has a lot to learn about both.

Romans 11
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Sounds like God took believers and non-believers shoved them all in one pot.


It makes sense to a true believer who's heart would be crushed knowing a brother or sister was not a believer and trapped by sin. He would suffer as his unbelieving brother suffers. Same way some fathers cry when their toddler daughter gets a needle from a doctor. I wish I could take the pain for you.



We can see here our getting salvation:

2 Peter 1
3seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. 4For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

See how his DIVINE POWER has granted us life and godliness. How we got the TRUE KNOWLEDGE. We are partakers of the DIVINE NATURE. We have ESCAPED the corruption.
Look at all the promises we get.

2 Peter 3

20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

:::RECORD SCRATCH:::
Wait a minute I thought I was saved?

He says it would have been better to be a UNBELIEVER! How can anyone be better off not knowing who Jesus is?


That's simple for me to understand. Its the guy who thinks he has the privilege to sin and get away with it.

This has always been the issue. The message against God has always been "its OKAY to SIN". The devil's first doctrine:
Genesis 3
4The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!

Jesus warns Satan is a liar and everything he says is a LIE............And the only time he ever says stuff in bible we are going to say its the truth?

 

[Bob Hope]

If you read from Matthew 7:13-27 in context at the link below, this is about a warning from Jesus about false prophets coming in leading many professing saved believers astray.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7:13-27&version=KJV

But we shall zero in with this;

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. KJV

Now why would Jesus profess to never knowing them in regards to false prophets coming in leading them astray? The key is in verse 23 of the underlined portion of that verse.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. KJB

The underlined portion of Titus 1:16 is also a clue. Works that deny Him. How is that important?

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

So any works that deny Him is a professing believer denying Him, and thus He will deny them. This is why Jesus said "I never knew you" to those professing believer because they were workers of iniquity in Matthew 7:23

But do take note of 2 Timothy 2:13 above because even if a saved believer stopped believing in Him, He still abides in those former believers and thus even believers that went astray because He will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

What makes a vessel unto dishonor? Iniquity.

What makes a vessel of dishonor to become a vessel unto honor? When he departs from iniquity with His help. 2 Timothy 2:21 above.

Both of those vessels are still in His House; 2 Timothy 2:20 above

So Jesus saying "I never knew you" is because of the iniquity that is denying Him. He still abides in the believer, but the believer is a reprobate, as in, disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper held in His honor. That means the believers will be left behind to be received later on after the great tribulation as a vessel unto dishonor in His House.

Luke 13:24-30 at the link below is another version of Matthew 7:13-27, but referring to the sitting down with the O.T saints, of which I receive it to be the Marriage Supper event at the pre tribulational rapture event.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+13:24-30&version=KJV

There is more than a loss of the rewards of crowns for being in iniquity. A believer can become a castaway.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

We are told to bring forth fruit meet for repentance. Without works you have no faith.

 

[Hark]

You keep applying scripture in reference to lost people as though they are Christians.

You really believe that what Paul wrote in any of his epistle to the churches were meant for lost people in how they are to live in following Jesus when they need Jesus in them to be able to do so?

Like to the Galatians in sowing to the fruits of the Spirit as opposing sowing to the works of the flesh?

Or like to the Corinthians how a man will be judged by what he builds on that foundation which was laid in Christ Jesus to sow gold, silver, and precious gems as opposing wood, stubble, and hay which defiles the temple of God?

We are to preach the gospel to lost people first and then teach all that Jesus commanded of us in trusting Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to do in living by faith in Jesus Christ.

You cannot be a believer and have your faith voided.

I'm not repeating those scripture in the N.T. from an earlier post that says it can happen. Here's another one for you though.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

You can't overthrow the faith of some unless they had faith.

Just like some believers no longer believe later on in life, because they believe the lie that the evolution theory is true.

Those who deny Christ will be denied before the Father.

That is true in 2 Timothy 2:12 BUT it also says that even if they believe not, He still abides.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Explain verse 13 if you can if I am applying that verse wrong.

Those who are not walking with God on some level are not saved. There will be those who believed they were saved but Jesus will reject them at the judgment as not having known them.

It is a cop out to think that because a believer does not believe any more or has been enticed into the world of sin that he or she was never saved. It is because they are saved is why His disciples are to warn them to repent because Jesus is coming at the time when God will judge His House first.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Your unorthodox heresy is just odd. It is also very similar to the Millennial Exclusion heresy.

I have been posting scripture to show that God will judge His House. Paul said that the loss of crowns is not the only thing at stake but becoming a castaway for not running that race by faith in Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

That's Paul, himself, testifying to what happens if he did not bring his own body under subjection which would result in becoming a castaway.

Paul is not of the lost, and so you can't say that a believer cannot lose his way or lose faith in His walk with Christ. Jesus Christ still abides, but unless these former believers or these carnal christians look to Jesus as their Good Shepherd to help them to discern the truth from the lies and to lean on Him to depart from iniquity, they run the risk of being left behind.

 

[Hark]

Try reading the original Greek. (I know I can't )

John 3:36 is what it is:

ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν υἱὸν ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον· ὁ δὲ ἀπειθῶν τῷ υἱῷ οὐκ ὄψεται ζωήν ἀλλ' ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ θεοῦ μένει ἐπ' αὐτόν


ἀπειθῶν = apeithōn


Original Word: ἀπειθέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apeitheó
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o)
Short Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal
Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.


I quoted a NASB.
I love King James, I'll try to stick with it when talking with you, if that's what your comfortable with.
Checked the orginal greek here this website:
http://biblehub.com/greek/544.htm

Okay. Now that I know which Bible version you are using, but yes, I would prefer just using the KJV for our discussion here; thanks.

 

[Hark]

2 Peter 3

20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

:::RECORD SCRATCH:::
Wait a minute I thought I was saved?

He says it would have been better to be a UNBELIEVER! How can anyone be better off not knowing who Jesus is?

That's simple for me to understand. Its the guy who thinks he has the privilege to sin and get away with it.

This has always been the issue. The message against God has always been "its OKAY to SIN". The devil's first doctrine:
Genesis 3
4The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!

Jesus warns Satan is a liar and everything he says is a LIE............And the only time he ever says stuff in bible we are going to say its the truth?

I read Peter's message differently from how you were paraphrasing it about it would have been better to be an unbeliever and thus meaning a believer thinks it is okay to sin.

I believe Peter was inferring that whatever the sinful state the saved believer was in before he got saved, after being overcome by sowing to the flesh, he will find himself in a far worse sinful state; hence reaping corruption, and thus incurring the wages of sin which is a physical death.

He would still be saved, but left behind where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth to be received later on as a vessel unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation when God will wipe the tears from their eyes over the loss of their first inheritance.

The prodigal son will not get that first inheritance since he had given it up for wild living, but he is still son, and thus received as a vessel unto dishonor in His House.

But the doors to the Marriage Supper are still open, and so the call is given out to every saved believer and former believers to look to Jesus for help to discern by the KJV, good and evil and lean on Him to lay aside every weight & sin in running that race by faith in Jesus Christ to finish it.

 

[Hark]

We are told to bring forth fruit meet for repentance.

Not for our salvation, but for living as His disciple to be received by His grace & by His help to the Marriage Supper held in His honor,

Without works you have no faith.

James was addressing a church that was disrespecting the poor by verbalizing faith in God's Providence to the poor after service in getting out of helping the poor by meeting their immediate needs from the bounty collected at church service.

It is that kind of faith that James was addressing and not saving faith in Jesus Christ. James wanted that church to lead by example because in the eyes of the poor, the church's actions voided the church's claim to having faith in God's Providence towards the church's needs for tomorrow when the church is unwilling to despense to meet the poor immediate needs today. In the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in God's Providence was dead, and so the church's faith will not "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor when the church is not leading by example that God will provide for the church.

Some believers can have works and still have not repented from iniquity that voids faith in Him, and so that quote is not a solid guide.

The best guide is to go before that throne of grace for help in getting ready for the Bridegroom before He comes, and He will lead believers to discern good and evil out of the KJV to help them lay aside every weight & sin in running that race by faith in Jesus Christ to finish.

 

[Bob Hope]

T

Not for our salvation, but for living as His disciple to be received by His grace & by His help to the Marriage Supper held in His honor,



James was addressing a church that was disrespecting the poor by verbalizing faith in God's Providence to the poor after service in getting out of helping the poor by meeting their immediate needs from the bounty collected at church service.

It is that kind of faith that James was addressing and not saving faith in Jesus Christ. James wanted that church to lead by example because in the eyes of the poor, the church's actions voided the church's claim to having faith in God's Providence towards the church's needs for tomorrow when the church is unwilling to despense to meet the poor immediate needs today. In the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in God's Providence was dead, and so the church's faith will not "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor when the church is not leading by example that God will provide for the church.

Some believers can have works and still have not repented from iniquity that voids faith in Him, and so that quote is not a solid guide.

The best guide is to go before that throne of grace for help in getting ready for the Bridegroom before He comes, and He will lead believers to discern good and evil out of the KJV to help them lay aside every weight & sin in running that race by faith in Jesus Christ to finish.

That's weak man. That's not what James was saying at all. There are no thoughts that will save you. It's all action based on obedience to Christ.