Not so,,,read DHK's testimony which I spoke of in the previous post. The one he offered a few months ago he was very clear that He did this, and He did that....and then was saved. He has made fun of the idea that the Spirit had to enable a person to believe......he refers to that as magical, saying things such as ....I did not just sit down in the lotus position and get zapped by any "force"......NO...He did it all...then God saved him.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Why man hates the Gospel Truth of Election !
- Thread starter savedbymercy
- Start date
- Status
Not so,,,read DHK's testimony which I spoke of in the previous post. The one he offered a few months ago he was very clear that He did this, and He did that....and then was saved. He has made fun of the idea that the Spirit had to enable a person to believe......he refers to that as magical, saying things such as ....I did not just sit down in the lotus position and get zapped by any "force"......NO...He did it all...then God saved him.
I have never heard anyone say this on the contrary. Do you have any quote of a Calvinist Pastor who teaches anything like this that I could read?:wavey:
Van
really TM???
What was the condition here for God's choice?
For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Take your time to explain how this was not unconditional:laugh:
really TM???
What was the condition here for God's choice?
For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Take your time to explain how this was not unconditional:laugh:
Next time you have a run through Upstate stop by for a coffee. I can round up a table full of them for you: Denny's, Thruway exit 30, let me know when you are coming. :wavey:
Last edited by a moderator:
If I spend the time and pull up where he said this, will you apologise?
Are you saying He did not say this?
PreachTony
Active Member
Is it not possible that he's pointing out that, no matter how much he tried to do, none of it was effective. God saved him; not his own works? I don't know DHK personally, so I cannot definitively say one way or the other. I can speak for myself, though.
We have this tendency to try and say all Calvinists, or all Arminians, or all Free-Willers will act the same, and that's simply not true. SBM reveals a brand of Calvinism, but is seemingly far more hyper-Cal than any other Cal I've run across here. Even more than you, brother Icon :smilewinkgrin:.
Like Padre said, those holding to Election can simply replace the boast of free will with the boast of "I was chosen of God and you were not." Of course, how do the Elect know they are Elect? At least my experience with free will has blessed me with an experience of grace with God that informs me of my salvation. Not by anything I did. I simply had faith in God and His love and mercy for me. To me, that's pretty well backed by scripture "For by grace are ye saved through faith;For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
I will keep this invite in mind, I sometimes pass through that way if I cannot get back in time for a long run. I would look forward to the fellowship, questions , concerns. I like much of what you post here on BB.
i like your attitude on many issues discussed.
If I can get up that way...I will send a Pm and we can see if the time frame will work.:wavey::wavey::wavey:
Along time ago I used to ride up toHerkimer to buy books from Fred Hubner who started a book service from the choir loft of the old church. I think this turned into Cumberland valley bible book service:thumbsup:
savedbymercy
New Member
They are inseparable, The Elect are who Christ died for, or we can say the Sheep, same difference Jn 10:11 , 15 !
PreachTony
Pt...that was not what he wrote. He says he was a RC then he came in contact with a baptist church....and then explains what he did.
He will never say that God saved him...because of works...he knows he cannot such that. He initially gave this testimony over a year ado that I saw , where he describes what he did.
Obviously He will mention that Jesus goes to the cross to pay for sin.
He when explaining how he got saved was that He did this and that...he was not Magically zapped by the Spirit.
When he reads this, he might offer it again. If not later on when I am done driving I could take the time and search out the exact ones I am speaking of.
I believe he also offered one recently, however the older ones were much clearer. One time if my memory was correct he was arguing that repentance was not necessary
I openly questioned him at that time so I remember it to some degree, but I try not to let error stay in mind, so I do not work to retain such ideas,
I do not know him either...just what he posts.
Correct...however sometimes there are tendencies and errors that are repeated...
Because SBM uses verses about election and predestination does not put him in the camp any more than a RC who might use such a verse.
It seems like Con1 has discovered the root cause of the abberant ideas just yesterday.
Because SBM raises topics like this one and sometimes verses or topics that are interesting I and others will comment.
I used to think he was on the right track until a few weeks ago a comment was made about God being the author of sin. I depart from anyone who makes such a statement really fast, through out a life line or two, and a caution,
He is level headed and I saw he said that. Look, It is possible someone said such a thing, but I would think it was someone who was trying to learn and got proud as Israel did amos 3:2.....I know for myself that is far from the truth. I am glad God did not cut me off in my sin. I was in total rebellion against God, His word , and his people before He sought me, and he drew me.
Pt...that was not what he wrote. He says he was a RC then he came in contact with a baptist church....and then explains what he did.
He will never say that God saved him...because of works...he knows he cannot such that. He initially gave this testimony over a year ado that I saw , where he describes what he did.
Obviously He will mention that Jesus goes to the cross to pay for sin.
He when explaining how he got saved was that He did this and that...he was not Magically zapped by the Spirit.
When he reads this, he might offer it again. If not later on when I am done driving I could take the time and search out the exact ones I am speaking of.
I believe he also offered one recently, however the older ones were much clearer. One time if my memory was correct he was arguing that repentance was not necessary
I openly questioned him at that time so I remember it to some degree, but I try not to let error stay in mind, so I do not work to retain such ideas,
I do not know him either...just what he posts.
.
Correct...however sometimes there are tendencies and errors that are repeated...
Because SBM uses verses about election and predestination does not put him in the camp any more than a RC who might use such a verse.
It seems like Con1 has discovered the root cause of the abberant ideas just yesterday.
Because SBM raises topics like this one and sometimes verses or topics that are interesting I and others will comment.
I used to think he was on the right track until a few weeks ago a comment was made about God being the author of sin. I depart from anyone who makes such a statement really fast, through out a life line or two, and a caution,
He is level headed and I saw he said that. Look, It is possible someone said such a thing, but I would think it was someone who was trying to learn and got proud as Israel did amos 3:2.....I know for myself that is far from the truth. I am glad God did not cut me off in my sin. I was in total rebellion against God, His word , and his people before He sought me, and he drew me.
this is a whole thread in and of itself..PT
PreachTony
Active Member
And I would love to start a thread about it, but I fear it would similarly devolve into name-calling and mocking of others theological preferences. Civility, it seems lately, is at a premium around here.
1) Note that the Book (Deuteronomy) and chapter (7) were not referenced. The lack of courtesy is unhelpful.
2) Was this choice corporate or individual? Corporate and not individual. Individuals that believe in God become members of this corporately elected group.
3) They were chosen corporately as a people, because God loved their fathers (Deut. 4:37)
4) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.
Last edited by a moderator:
He may have said what you said. What you said and what I said are not the same thing.
savedbymercy
New Member
Why man hates the Gospel Truth of Election ! 2
Let me illustrate this freewill boasting concept and how Election puts a stop to it ! Jn 1:12-13
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Now whats makes the difference between those who receive Christ and those who dont ?
The one who is a boaster will say that it was his own freewill that made the difference, but the ones who believe in Election says God's Election made the difference.
See Election points to God making the Difference, but boasting points to their freewill making the difference in saved and lost, or who receives Christ or not.
So thats why Election to Salvation is so hated by the natural man, for then he cannot find cause to boast about what he had done to win God's approval over the other guy !
Let me illustrate this freewill boasting concept and how Election puts a stop to it ! Jn 1:12-13
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Now whats makes the difference between those who receive Christ and those who dont ?
The one who is a boaster will say that it was his own freewill that made the difference, but the ones who believe in Election says God's Election made the difference.
See Election points to God making the Difference, but boasting points to their freewill making the difference in saved and lost, or who receives Christ or not.
So thats why Election to Salvation is so hated by the natural man, for then he cannot find cause to boast about what he had done to win God's approval over the other guy !
Lol, begin noticing the salvation statements whenever you check out other's profiles. "I accepted" is a quite common articulation.
Van
I usually give the address . I thought that being you have studied this issue out for many years you would recognize this text at once.
This text does not indicate that at all does it? I do not see that as pertaining to the question that was asked to you. This does not address any condition on the part of the sinner.
That does not answer the question. God singled out that nation as the place where whoever was going to be saved would be saved in that nation at that time....but it does not answer the question which your false assertion claimed.
your misunderstanding of 2 thess does not answer the question from DEUT 7 at all. This is bogus TM. This answer is no answer at all.
The question was directed to you about DEUT 7......stop all this shuck and jive, twaddlemaster:thumbsup::laugh:
I usually give the address . I thought that being you have studied this issue out for many years you would recognize this text at once.
This text does not indicate that at all does it? I do not see that as pertaining to the question that was asked to you. This does not address any condition on the part of the sinner.
That does not answer the question. God singled out that nation as the place where whoever was going to be saved would be saved in that nation at that time....but it does not answer the question which your false assertion claimed.
your misunderstanding of 2 thess does not answer the question from DEUT 7 at all. This is bogus TM. This answer is no answer at all.
The question was directed to you about DEUT 7......stop all this shuck and jive, twaddlemaster:thumbsup::laugh:
John Wesley on Grace.
"It does not depend on any power or merit in man; no, not in any degree, neither in whole, nor in part. It does not in anywise depend either on the good works or righteousness of the receiver; not on anything he has done, or anything he is. It does not depend on his endeavors. It does not depend on his good tempers, or good desires, or good purposes and intentions; for all these flow from the free grace of God; they are the streams only, not the fountain. They are the fruits of free grace, and not the root. They are not the cause, but the effects of it. Whatsoever good is in man, or is done by man, God is the author and doer of it."
steaver
The scripture declares this....the Cal believes it unlike you evidently Steaver.
.
The scripture declares this....the Cal believes it unlike you evidently Steaver.
Your poor theology leads to absurd conclusions. We are free in this country to believe such falsehoods as you do but I would not recommend you continue in this:wavey:
Did God hate the non elect before or after thy were ever born?
"...Sirs, what must I DO to be saved? And they said, DON"T DO ANYTHING, THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO, JUST WAIT ON GOD AND SEE IF HE HAS CHOSEN YOU TO BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." - (Calvin Version)
- Status