37818
Well-Known Member
I do not think a written record is metaphor. We have written records as on and off bits. God has his written records how He keeps them.
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Why persons perish in Hell.
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
This brings up a few theological points to consider.
Why would God need a written record?
Where are these records kept?
What are these books made of (stone, parchment, animal skin...) and how do these books exist in a spiritual sense?
I believe the "book" is a metaphor to communicate spiritual truths to men....but that is just my view (NOT discounting yours).
37818
Well-Known Member
For His created. Luke 24:44, ". . . which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. . . ." Revelation 20;12, ". . . And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. . . . ."
Psalms 119:89, ". . . For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. . . ." Luke 10:20, ". . . names are written in heaven. . . ."
We use electrons in matterals. What does God need of any creation? Colossions, 1:15-17, ". . . Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. . . ."
Is He a metaphor?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Well either you believe Christ died for the sin of unbelief , rejecting Christ or not.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
If a name was blottet out, then it had been written before. Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
That phrase denotes the names were never written in the book of life.
You would have a case if it read:
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names had been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
I agree that the Law and f Mosses and the Prophets were written documents. I'm not suggesting that the Jews had no written Scripture or that God's words were never written down.
I am talking specifically about the Book of Life. I believe this to be a metaphor communicating to men that God knows those who are His own.
You believe it to be a physical book. That is perfectly fine with me. We simply disagree. No big deal and it makes no difference in terms of doctrine.
Is God a metaphor? No, of course not. Why do you ask that???
37818
Well-Known Member
Is an e-Book considered physical book? Or a metaphorical book?
Is God actually photons? 1 John 1:5. Jesus is the true light, Iohn 1:9 in the same way as God is the true God, John 17:3.
God is a metaphor for love, 1 John 4:16.
I don't believe that God is a metaphor for love. If anything, I think of it the other way around.
I do not believe God is photons (energy). I believe He is spirit.
37818
Well-Known Member
Just to note:
1 John 1:5 has ". . . God is light . . . ."
1 John 4:16 has ". . . God is love . . . ."
John 4:24 h3as " . . . God [is] Spirit . . . ."
I agree that those are qualities of God. But I terms of light, I tend to lean towards the idea of "truth".
Anyway....good note
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
If Christ died for the sin of unbelief then faith would be unnecessary for salvation. Which you seem to think is true but the bible disagrees with your theory.
Rom 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
Rom 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
In Scripture, the sin of unbelief is not merely ignorance; rather, it is willfully refusing God’s free gift of forgiveness of sin.
When God offers to forgive a man’s sin if he believes, logic dictates that his response cannot be, “No, I refuse to believe in You, but forgive my sins anyway.” Forgiveness is a conditional offer: if the required condition is met (faith), then the promised result occurs (forgiveness). Faith in Christ is how people rightly respond to God’s offer of salvation.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Well either you believe Christ died for the sin of unbelief , rejecting Christ or not.
37818
Well-Known Member
Why persons perish in Hell.
Revelation 20:15, ". . . And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. . . ."
Revelation 21:8, ". . . But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. . . ."
Revelation 20:15, ". . . And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. . . ."
Revelation 21:8, ". . . But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. . . ."
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
If Christ's death covered all sins including unbelief then there is no logical reason that anyone needs faith before they are saved.
The only sin God can't forgive is the sin of unbelief.
WHY? The reason that unbelief condemns a person is because FAITH in the Son is what is required for one to be saved.
So since you and 37818 seem to think faith is not required for salvation I am sure you must have scripture for that.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Common thread "unbelief". If Christ died for the sin of unbelief then what would keep all these people out of heaven?
37818
Well-Known Member
What did Jesus warn?
Matthew 12:31-32, ". . . Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. . . ."
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
So its fair to say you dont believe Christ died for the sin of unbelief, rejecting Christ, correct ?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
If one continues in their unbelief they can not be saved. Unbelief can not be forgiven as the only way to have it forgiven is for them to believe thus no unbelief.
The Righteousness of God Through Faith
Rom 3:21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
Rom 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Rom 3:25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--
Rom 3:26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.
Act 16:31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."
37 unbelief is what keeps you from being saved. If Christ forgave unbelief then there would be not requirement to believe.
37818
Well-Known Member
I was saved in the summer of 1962. The first time I understood the gospel.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
So it's fair to say that you don't believe one has to believe in Christ for their salvation. So all people will be saved correct? Are you a universalist at heart?
But we should see what the bible says.
Hebrews 3:16-19
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
The rebellious Israelites perished in the desert because of unbelief, a sin of openly defying God, refusing to believe, and exhibiting disobedience.
Unbelief is the root of the sin of provoking God. Unbelief robs the unbeliever of the privilege of God's blessings. Because of unbelief, rebellious man is denied entrance into the rest that God provides for those that believe.
I did a search for "unbelief" in the NKJV and it returned 12 verses:
Mat_13:58 Now He did not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Mat_17:20 So Jesus said to them, "Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.
Mar_6:6 And He marveled because of their unbelief. Then He went about the villages in a circuit, teaching.
Mar_9:24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!"
Mar_16:14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.
Rom_3:3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?
Rom_4:20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God,
Rom_11:20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
Rom_11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
1Ti_1:13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
Heb_3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
Heb_3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Which one shows that Christ died for the sin of unbelief? Or do you have a different bible that has that verse?
We do see that one's unbelief will not alter God's faithfulness Rom_3:3
And one can be removed for their unbelief Rom_11:20
But if they turn back to God in faith He will not cast them out Rom_11:23