Why start an online BB ministerial academy?

[Rhetorician]

POB,

I am familiar w/Baxter's work. IMO, it may be one of the best one volume commentary works there is.

I heard him speak at MABTS when I was there and was struck by his ability to make scholarship come alive for the common person. I was just a diploma student at the time.

His gift may be for seeing the overview of scripture clearly.

As with all scholarship, I would not necessarily agree with everything he says however.

It will be a help.

sdg.

rd

 

[Rhetorician]

POB and all,

FYI! I have been a "diploma student" and a "Bible college student" at an unaccredited BC.

I also came to the ministry from a "trade union" background at the age of 30 so I have a real heart here for what we are doing. So, I know a bit what it is about to be overwhelmed by the ministry and ministerial education for the "late bloomer."

sdg!

rd

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Have you shared your thoughts with UZThD?

 

[Plain Old Bill]

I understand your concerns. That is where the mechanics of each course being taught come into play.
The Method of instruction.
The plan of instruction.
The individual lesson plans.
How they are set up and executed will be the difference.
It is my feeling we have to have the what(course and curriculum)content. It is the exection of instruction that will make it unique and will be what makes it work.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

I have to start editing my entries.

 

[UZThD]

Originally posted by Rhetorician:
POB and all,

FYI! I have been a "diploma student" and a "Bible college student" at an unaccredited BC.

I also came to the ministry from a "trade union" background at the age of 30 so I have a real heart here for what we are doing. So, I know a bit what it is about to be overwhelmed by the ministry and ministerial education for the "late bloomer."

sdg!

rd

===


My BA, ThB were from an unaccredited, residential Bible College/Seminary (now TRACS). But that UA BA still got me into two RA schools :USD for a teaching credential and Point Loma for the MA. Of course, that was in the 1960s. Sometimes a UA certificate or degree has utility.

I would be happy to be addressed as just "UZ" which stands for University of Zululand or as Bill G.

Thanks,

 

[Plain Old Bill]

I see those as common bonds.We need to recruit qualified people to teach.I am still working at it but can use all the help I can get.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

For those who are watching and thinking about helping it would sure be nice to hear from you.

 

[Rhetorician]

POB,

In the meantime, do we need to caterogize who we have with what degrees and what each of them might want to teach (and be qualified to teach)? By the time we have done that maybe it will bring some new voices and thoughts?

Note:
Keep in mind that credentialed people from RA schools universities and colleges, with at least one advance degree in a religious field (MA or MDiv minimun), can and do teach any and everything at most (and even some reputable) Bible colleges, academies, and institutes.

So, if that is the case, we would not need over five at the maximum to start out and cover all of the essential or beginning subjects. We nearly have that many now.

Questions:
Does anyone know what to do about the state board of education question?

Does anyone know a JD who could help us?

Personal observations. We are making more progress that I thought quicker than I thought possible.

sdg!

rd

 

[StefanM]

Originally posted by Plain Old Bill:
Dear StfanM,
That in it's self would make it a 3 year institute.

You'd need to combine some classes--the doctrine classes are good candidates.

IMO, four classes in Doctrine might be a bit excessive for a certificate program.

 

[Rhetorician]

To all who are reading this thread:

Please go to the other thread posted inviting mentors and teachers to come and talk to us.

sdg!

rd

 

[UZThD]

Originally posted by Plain Old Bill:
had an opportunity to look at the links we have on the site yet? [/QB]

===

just did. lot's there.

UZ

 

[StefanM]

If you went to mostly three hour classes, I’d suggest something along these lines.

General Studies (3 hrs)
Theological Writing 2 hrs. (must be taken in first semester of enrollment)
Academic Computing 1 hr (must be taken in first semester of enrollment, designed to familiarize the student with using internet, word processing, and other resources used in the program)

General Biblical Studies (9 hrs)
OT Survey 3 hrs
NT Survey 3 hrs
Exegesis and Hermeneutics 3 hrs

Theological Studies (6 hrs)
Systematic Theology I 3 hrs
Systematic Theology II 3 hrs (Theology I as prerequisite)

Ministry (12 hrs)
Introduction to Ministry 2 hrs
Ministerial Practicum 1 hr (combined with Intro to Ministry)
Evangelism 3 hrs (prerequisites Intro to Ministry + Practicum)
Sermon Preparation
Or
Teaching the Bible 3 hrs (students not entering the pastoral ministry can opt for Teaching the Bible)
Christian Education 3 hrs

Historical Studies (6 hrs)
Church History 3 hrs
Baptist History 3 hrs

Biblical Studies (9 hrs required with 6 hours of Greek, 12 hrs required with 3 hours of Greek, all 15 hours required without Greek; each must take at least one OT course) prerequisites are the survey courses pertaining to the subject area
Synoptic Gospels 3 hrs
Pentateuch 3 hrs
Pauline Epistles 3 hrs
OT Prophets 3 hrs
Writings of John 3 hrs

Greek (0- 6 hrs.)

NT Greek I 3 hrs
NT Greek II 3 hrs


World Religions (3 hrs)
Survey of World Religions 3 hrs

Specialized Ministry (6 hrs required; choose two courses)--prerequisites Intro to Ministry + Practicum
Pastoral Ministry 3 hrs
Church Administration 3 hrs
Lay Ministry 3 hrs
Intro to Music Ministry 3 hrs

TOTAL 60 hrs

-----
I'd make Greek optional so that we do not turn away students who fear the Greek, especially if this program is designed to be applicable even to laypersons.

Sermon Prep needed an alternative for those not called to pastoral ministry.

In the program listed by UZTHD, I saw the the OT was basically neglected beyond the survey courses, so I think incorporating them into the program would be beneficial.

 

[Rhetorician]

StefanM,

You have laid out a good two year program for a Bible college/Institute.

However, as I survey the material, if seems to be "theory intensive" and "practicum light." There needs to be some courses on the "How To..." of ministry.

"How to Start a Sunday School"

"How to Teach a Sunday School Class"

"How to Witness"

OR, MAYBE WE NEED TO HAVE A PRACTICUM COMPONENT BUILT INTO THE CURICCULUM DESIGN FOR EACH COURSE?! This is certainly an option.

I am still seeing the program, as has been laid out in the above post(s), as one that focuses on theory; in OT, in NT, in Hermeneutics, etc.

The only "hands on" type classes lined out above are:

Theological Writing,Academic Computing, Exegesis and/or Hermeneutics (could be made a hands on), Ministry Practicum, Teaching the Bible, & maybe a very few others.

Does anyone get what I am saying? I invision the people coming to us as at a very elemental stage in their ministry progression. I know that they need all of the Bible, Theology, OT, NT, etc., but they will need personal attention & counsel to their call and spiritual formations as well.

True?

Let me know what you think. I am not trying to be the killjoy at the party, and it is not my intention to "rain on anyone's parade." But, I think we need to try and follow the K.I.S.S. Rule.

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!!!!

I pay special defference (sp) to StefanM and UZThD for all the good work and time they have contributed.

This is in no way intended to be a criticism but more of a critique.

Whatdayathink?

sdg!

rd

 

[Plain Old Bill]

I will contact the state dept of edcucation here in Washington tomorrow and see what the particulars are.They will probably send me a packet of information.

 

[UZThD]

Stefan:

I think some of your ideas are very good. But IMO...


...eliminating Greek as a req and reducing Systematic theology...

...and in spite of that yet leaving us with a curriculum without...

a Grammar and Composition class

a Biblical Theology class

a life of Christ class

a counseling class

a church planting class

a missions class

an Apologetics class

a class in Being God's servant

a Biblical Introduction class (to cover authorship, canon, text)

And, of course, no Greek exegesis class...

leaves me unsatisfied...


...but, IF I were as much a Baptist as I am an exegete and a Christologist, I would probably applaud studying Baptist History over studying the Life of Christ or doing Greek exegesis...


...but, alas, I simply am not that much of a Baptist!

UZ

 

[StefanM]

Originally posted by Rhetorician:
StefanM,
However, as I survey the material, if seems to be "theory intensive" and "practicum light." There needs to be some courses on the "How To..." of ministry.

"How to Start a Sunday School"

"How to Teach a Sunday School Class"

"How to Witness"

OR, MAYBE WE NEED TO HAVE A PRACTICUM COMPONENT BUILT INTO THE CURICCULUM DESIGN FOR EACH COURSE?! This is certainly an option.

I think your best bet is going to have practicum either attached on to courses (like an additional one-hour class) or to have the work in the courses focused on ministry projects instead of academic research.

e.g. -You can teach a class on Theology and require a paper about the development of Neo-orthodoxy, or . . . you could have them design a curriculum to be used in the local church. Also, you could have the students gear it toward their focus groups... pastors for the church at large, others for youth, children, etc.

You can teach the Christian ed class as a focus on applying the principles of Christian ed to the local church.

Biblical studies would be a bit more difficult, but we can't go too light on it. You can know all the methods, but if you don't know the Bible, you're lost. You could structure it so that instead of going into the deep, complex literary analysis, textual criticism, etc. you require the students to apply the principles gleaned from the text to local church ministry, whether through an essay or a project.

Evangelism could focus on practicum and theory quite easily.

The KISS method is why I wouldn't require Greek. If this were a 4 year degree, then probably, but not for a certificate. Neverthless, if someone wants to teach it and if there are willing students, it could be optional.

In my sample program, all of the specialized ministries were intended to be entirely practical. After the basics were covered, these specialized courses could move into intense application toward the end of the program.

If this program expects 15 page papers for every class, it's not going to work. I agree with Rhetorician--this program should focus on the practice of ministry. There are some academic things that must be included, but having practical application in each course should be feasible, IMO.

Also, you may want to require a no-credit, no-fee spiritual formation group/internet board component for each semester in the program.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

UZThd, I'm with you on this. I think the program as it is designed will send a young pastor out into the field fairly well equipped.It will certainly give a church a highly qualified Sunday School teacher.It will prepare a missionary for the field and equip an evangelist.A church history class and a history of the Baptist can be adde later but not at the expense of any of the present courses.

 

[StefanM]

Originally posted by UZThD:
Stefan:

I think some of your ideas are very good. But IMO...


...eliminating Greek as a req and reducing Systematic theology...

...and in spite of that yet leaving us with a curriculum without...

a Grammar and Composition class

a Biblical Theology class

a life of Christ class

a counseling class

a church planting class

a missions class

an Apologetics class

a class in Being God's servant

a Biblical Introduction class (to cover authorship, canon, text)

And, of course, no Greek exegesis class...

leaves me unsatisfied...


...but, IF I were as much a Baptist as I am an exegete and a Christologist, I would probably applaud studying Baptist History over studying the Life of Christ or doing Greek exegesis...


...but, alas, I simply am not that much of a Baptist!

UZ

Systematic theology wouldn't be reduced; it would be streamlined. Even M.Div. programs typically only require 6-9 hours of systematic theology. IMO, it would be difficult to keep the content of the course at Bible institute level if there are any more hours than that.

About Greek... Greek is wonderful, but for a Bible institute, I think that requiring it would discourage some students from attending.

Grammar and Comp...covered under "Academic Writing," which would basically be the same thing, just geared toward the purposes of the program instead of general composition.

Biblical Theology...should be covered in Theology classes and in the Biblical Studies courses

Life of Christ--Mt, Mk, Luke covered in Synoptic Gospels, John covered in Writings of John

Counseling--covered in Pastoral Ministry

Missions--covered in Evangelism

Being God's servant--covered in Intro to Ministry

Biblical introduction--covered in the Surveys (the surveys are one hour longer each)

Greek exegesis--IMO, this is too advanced for a certificate program, especially one geared for practicality.

Apologetics--this could be used in theology classes

Church planting--could be covered in a ministry class

-----------

Just from a efficiency angle-- 30 classes of 2 hrs each would seem to be more difficult to organize than about 20 classes of 3 hrs each.

With three hour courses, you can cover more material in each, so the course titles are more general than the two hours. The same basic subject matter will still be covered.

 

[StefanM]

Just a note:

I'm not trying to discredit anyone's opinion; I'm just a bivocational pastor and college student trying to provide a different perspective.

------

And on the Baptist History class, UZTHD and POB are right; it probably should be replaced. I guess I just liked my Baptist History class too much . Perhaps Small Church Ministry/ Church planting?

One of my main goals in speaking up initially was the concern for non-pastoral students. If the goal of the institute is to reach out to them as well, then they need alternative courses in some areas.