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Rhetorician

Administrator
Administrator
Hey All,

There seems to be have been a "lull."

I MAKE A MOTION;

HZThD take into consideration all of the aforegone opinions and interpretative elements and cast a Statement of Faith that he belives all could find that has merit.

This said statement should be a doctrinal Statement of Faith that shall be inclusionary of all of the Historic Tenents of the Christian Faith which frame the essence for Christianity and the recent translations of..., interpretations of..., and inerrancy of Scripture.

That is my motion.

DO I HAVE SECOND???????

sdg!

rd
 

Plain Old Bill

New Member
Just a note so it is clear why I wanted the SOF to be clear on the Bible and the KJVO stance.
First To be clear I have no objection to KJVO students.
I don't want a battle down the road between KJVO and Non-KJVO faculty, the discussions on this board are devisive enough to tell me what a ball of wax that would be.
I personally am KJVO preferred,pre-trib,pre-mill,OSAS,creationist.However that does not mean I am unwilling to look at different views,as a matter of fact I have.I do believe we should know what the other views are and why people take those stands whether I agree with them or not.My mind can be changed but no easily.
I hope this helps.
 

UZThD

New Member
Originally posted by exscentric:
Thanks for the mini micro readers digest version, well done.

I am not KJVO and know the radical ends it goes to. Most I know aren't that radical and use all sources available to them including the languages which makes them NOT KJVO, but they haven't figured that out yet :D .

Thanks
===


Thanks. I made a mistake ,which I recalled making just before I slept last night, which I now need to correct. It is the RSV which separates "God" from "Christ" in Rom 1:9 by inserting a period between those nouns , not the KJV.

But the principle of doing research on that issue or not doing it on that issue remains the same: A prof holding a stringent KJVO position would express the opinion that the RSV is wrong because the KJV is inspired. The prof who believes what the apostle wrote in the Biblical language is what is the standard of truth, in contrast, will take the time to examine Pauline doxologies to see if Paul ever elsewhere used an asyndetic construction and by insight will determine whether or not a period should be there.

Do you see? One leads to the dead end of the KJV being the standard over what Paul (who used neither comma or period there) wrote. The other applies to the problem scholarly research. That is education IMO.
 

UZThD

New Member
Originally posted by Rhetorician:
Hey All,

There seems to be have been a "lull."

I MAKE A MOTION;

HZThD take into consideration all of the aforegone opinions and interpretative elements and cast a Statement of Faith that he belives all could find that has merit.

This said statement should be a doctrinal Statement of Faith that shall be inclusionary of all of the Historic Tenents of the Christian Faith which frame the essence for Christianity and the recent translations of..., interpretations of..., and inerrancy of Scripture.

That is my motion.

DO I HAVE SECOND???????

sdg!

rd
===

??? sorry I thought we were discussing whether or not the suggested SOF is adequate to meet the criteria you just have described. And I thought that so far there was a consensus that it was.
 

Plain Old Bill

New Member
I think Your basic concept is right on UZThD.It could be Rhetorician was referring to your choice of words.I don't know if I've seen your final draft yet.I did see your proposal.If I could get you to look at the last 3 pages of the thread for review it would be appreciated.While we want to be inclusive of Baptist thought I don't think we are looking to be ecumenical or at least I hope not.
Also it might be a good idea to have some scripture to point to for each point in the SOF? What do you think?
 

Rhetorician

Administrator
Administrator
POB,

I think the Scripture passage to justify each section of the SOF is "right on!."

I am sorry to have misunderstood HZThD's words. Please forgive.

FYI. I have had a lightening stike and my computer is doing crazy things. If you do not hear from me for a day or two then I am trying to deal with this machine.

sdg!

rd
 

Rhetorician

Administrator
Administrator
POB & HZThD,

Check out the "SOF" key at the bottom of the page. What an irony huh? I had never seen that before.

Looks like one I suggested to HZ at the "get go!"

sdg!

rd
 

Plain Old Bill

New Member
I think we are reaching the point Where we should consider recruiting a secretary to record all of the pertinant data instead of having to reread the whole thread each time a question comes up.

Several other questions come to mind also:
Does anybody know a lawyer who would donate time to help set up a tax exempt non-profit Bible Institute?

Are we getting to the point where we need to start considering who would be the Dean of Admissions,Academics,and Practical Ministry?Also are we at the point yet of discussing how each of these offices would function?
 

Rhetorician

Administrator
Administrator
POB,

I still think we need to "target out audience" on the very beginning?

Who are we trying to serve?

If we were trying to sell a new widdget, we would want to know who would buy it before we tried to make it and sell it.

sdg!

rd
 

Plain Old Bill

New Member
Rhetorician, I think that is an excellant statement of faith. I also think UZThd is doing an excellant job.I would want to see his finished product and hear from him.He has worked hard and had a very good spirit when we give him suggestions.He has also been very responsive.I have a great deal of respect for his views and efforts.
 

Plain Old Bill

New Member
By the way I have talked to Tater Tot and she is considering doing a course in music (how to lead congrgational singing and how to train a chior master)for us.
Also C4K is considering doing courses in missiology and the Monor Prophets.
 

Rhetorician

Administrator
Administrator
Hey all,

My hat is off to HZ also.

He has risen to the occasion. Then again, he just got the paperwork to prove he is up to any task he is given.

I will still be at his dispoal to "advise and consent" as per the request of the Chair of the Steering Committee--POB.

I think the SOF is good. It meets the tension b/t orthodoxy and pet peave personal extremes.

KPTGW (keep up the good work!)

POB, what about the question I have raised above; defining our "target students?" Do we need to start a separate thread for that? Maybe?!

WhatdayathinK?

sdg!

rd
 

Rhetorician

Administrator
Administrator
POB,

To me, the target students question preceeds the need for academic deans and such. It may even preceed the need for a JD.

We have to know whom we are going to reach before we begin to craft a way to reach them. Yes? No? Maybe? HA!

sdg!

rd
 

Plain Old Bill

New Member
I think we should define our target students more clearly. I think we should use this thread as long as we are aloud to,it gives us one place to go for reference.
I will be gone for a little while, I have to go to the doctor ,nothing terrible just my back.See you all in a couple of hours.
 

UZThD

New Member
Originally posted by Plain Old Bill:
[QB] I think Your basic concept is right on UZThD.It could be Rhetorician was referring to your choice of words.


===

then I guess I would need a more precise pointing to which words.

===


I don't know if I've seen your final draft yet.I did see your proposal.

===

I suppose a draft is final when all concerned and connected say it is...this hasn't happened, but as far as I know, no one concerned has much objected to any part of the last revision unless Ex. 's comments did, but I responed to those.

===

If I could get you to look at the last 3 pages of the thread for review it would be appreciated.While we want to be inclusive of Baptist thought I don't think we are looking to be ecumenical or at least I hope not.

===

I regularly do that, but again, I think I have consistently and persuasively responded to all comments , and I have made revisions after continued concerned was expressed even after my responding.

===
Also it might be a good idea to have some scripture to point to for each point in the SOF? What do you think?

===

Scriptures are often ineffectually provided in SOF ! Ineffectually I say because citing a Scripture often proves nothing!

EG, a cessationist school may list in its SOF 1 Cor 13:8 "tongues shall cease." A charismatic school may list in its SOF 1 Cor 14:39, "forbid not speaking in tongues."

Neither school has evidenced much at all ,by that citing. The same may be exemplified in Arminian vs Calvinistic or pretrib vs post trib, or whatever, SOF. We ALL haves our verses!

How MANY times have we ALL here at BB witnessed that the meaning of but one verse ,or even but a part of it, can be hotly contested?

So, IMO, listing Scripture under each point of the SOF is ineffectual. BUT, if others can agree to subscribe to that SOF, then, I suppose they have Biblical reasons for that agreement.

I'd be happy for them to provide whatever verses they lean on which gives them the confidence to subscribe to that SOF.

Or if it really will please, I will!

But I think it means little to provide verses. It is oft done just to give the impression of a Scriptural authority for a SOF which a mere citation does not.
 

UZThD

New Member
Responding to allocades: writing this statement is quite easy and is not time consuming.

This below ,from page 7, is the most recent revision.

Please examine it as you have time and precisely state how it might better clearly define our positions for the purpose of this school. We all have more exact positions on some points . Should any of these more exact positions be stated in our SOF? Or, should anything be worded differently?


==============

Some spelling and grammar fixed , some rewording, and added ideation. Let me know your thoughts:


We believe:


1. The 66 Books of the Bible in their wording in the originals only are inspired and infallible or inerrant. Yet many versions or translations are thought to faithfully reproduce ,in the main, the ideas of the originals. These are quite ample for the knowledge of salvation and for Christian growth. The final authority over belief and practice , however, is not a translation, but is what is best evidenced to be the true text in the Biblical languages when correctly interpreted by a grammatical-historical method.

2. There is only one GOD, who eternally exists in three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. These Persons are perfectly equal in nature, attributes, power, and glory. God is creator of man and the universe.

3. The first man, Adam, transgressed, and in Adam's fall all are made sinners. Thus every man and woman is born with a sinful nature and is unable without grace to choose God.

4. God the Father loves man so greatly that He gave His only Son to save man by the Son's vicarious, redeeming, and substitutionary death. The salvific merits of this death are applied to those who have reached an age of accountability when they believe and accept Christ as Lord and Savior. Those who die before reaching that age of accountability are thought to be among the saved.

5. God the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, who , by His virginal conception, became true man remains also true God. Christ has both a complete human nature which neither was affected by a sin nature nor committed an actual sin , and also has a complete divine nature which is equal to and one in essence with God the Father and the God Holy Spirit. Christ nevertheless exists as one Person without either a diminution of His deity or of His humanity. Nor is there a sharing or a blending of essence or powers or attributes between these two natures. Christ died a redeeming, substitutionary death for our sin , was bodily resurrected , ascended , now intercedes for us as our High Priest, and will personally and physically return to earth.

6. God the the Holy Spirit convicts of sin and applies to individuals the salvation merited by the redeeming, substitutionary death of Jesus Christ.

7) Salvation is received through faith, not earned by works, by those subjects of God's grace-- which grace leads to repentance . This salvation, freely given in love by God , includes a new birth or a regeneration , a forgiveness of sins, a new nature, and a giftedness for service. These graces are accomplished by the Holy Spirit who indwells all Christians. By these works of the Spirit we are enabled to grow in grace and in the knowledge of God , and we are to be progressively sanctified as we yield to Him. Salvation also includes , at physical death, being in a literal place eternally in the presence of God Himself instead of in a literal place of eternal punishment and separation from God. That place of eternal separation from God is reserved for the devil, his angels, and the lost. Salvation also includes a resurrected and glorified body at the time of Christ's second coming .

8. The Church is the body of Christ and members of local churches should be baptised in water by immersion , not to save, but because this is commanded by Christ and exemplified by the apostolic churches. Christians also should regularly participate in the Lord's Supper as a memory of His death and next coming. The local church has offices as elders (pastors, bishops) and deacons. The church exists to worship and glorify God, edify the saints, and reach the lost.

9. Christians are to consistently grow in grace through prayer, worship, service, witnessing, learning Scripture, fellowship, and an increased surrender to God. We believe the Scriptures require a moral life of Christans. While we do not approve of the legalism of some, we do feel the need to condemn some practices in our society as abortion and marriage between those of the same gender.

10. We recognize that indivuals connected with our Academy may hold beliefs which are more comprehensive and more particularized than are these. [/QB][/QUOTE]
 
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