WHY THE RAPTURE MUST BE PRE-TRIBULATION

[Downsville]

Jude
Ill tell ya what i meant that it is for today. When i post old testament scriptures, someone(if they dont like whats being said in the scripture)will always write"thats for ancient Israel".But the fact that the DAY OF THE LORD is mentioned in this passage makes it clear that it is relevant to us today.

[5] Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

Before anyone writes that the House of Israel is the Jews(which i also believed)read the scriptures pertaining to the house of Israel and the tribe of Judah.

 

[Ed Jones]

Originally posted by Jude:
Hmmm...seems like you guys spend a lot of time on things that Jesus said didn't matter! If Jesus said, "it is not for you to know" to the Apostles, then why oh why do you spend SO MUCH TIME arguing about 'post, pre, mid' and 'pre, a, post'? The 'two men' (angels) testified that Jesus would return. That's enough for me.

If one is focused on the Great Commission, serving the Lord and has made up in their minds to follow Jesus no matter what comes, then I agree with you. This discussion is largely academic. However looking at the overall state of the Church today, it is far from the Bride without spot or wrinkle that Jesus is looking for. It is obvious that worldliness and worldly thinking has pervaded the Church. And therein lays the real threat.

Christians in general are becoming lax in their spiritual walk. And the belief that we will all be raptured before the Tribulation is only serving to reinforce the laxity; causing us to stop watching for the Lord and fall spiritually asleep. If indeed the Pre-Trib rapture is correct, then yes it doesn’t matter. Jesus will sort it out. We’ll all have a great belly laugh about these concerns as we spent eternity with the Lord. But if is not correct and Christians will have to endure Tribulation events, then it’s no longer funny. It matters a great deal. Jesus said:

Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

When He says “then shall many be offended” and “the love of many shall wax cold” he isn’t just talking about non-believers but believers as well. Then He says “he that shall endure… shall be saved”. If you fall away, take the Mark of the Beast, etc. your very salvation is at risk. Jesus elaborates on this in Mat 24:42-51.

There are several serious problems with the Pre-Tribulation position. One such problem clearly puts the rapture of the Church in the Tribulation period. (See my previous posts). So that’s why there is need to discuss this. The Church needs to know for certain.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ed Jones: "Most people who take the Pre-Trib position
do not use the Olivet Discourse to describe an early rapture
of the Church because of the obvious inconsistency."

This is true. I was pretrib 45 years, maybe 46 before i
saw that the MOD (Mount Olivet Discourse) teaches the
pretribulation Rapture/resurrection.

Ed Jones: "As long as the Church can conclude that
Pre-Trib position can be supported by Scripture,
believers will relax and not be prepared."

I do not share your dispair about members of the Church.
We should always teach the truth, even if humans are
unreliable.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ed Jones: "If indeed the Pre-Trib rapture is correct,
then yes it doesn’t matter. Jesus will sort it out.
We’ll all have a great belly laugh about these concerns
as we spent eternity with the Lord. But if is not correct
and Christians will have to endure Tribulation events,
then it’s no longer funny."

Right or wrong about Pretrib -- I'm not going
into the Tribulation Period. I will not
let my family go into the Tribulation Period.
It is going to be hell on earth and my
family should not have to suffer it.


Edwards: ----------------------
The timeline according to Matthew 24
(Mount Olivet Discourse, also Matthew 25,
Mark 13, Luke 21):

0. church age continues
Matthew 24:4-15

1. rapture/resurrection
Matthew 24:31-44

2. Tribulation time
Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
Matthew 24:29-30)
----------------------

Ed Jones: "Events 2 and 3 are reversed in the Olivet Discourse."

In Matthew 24:3 you will find the three questions asked
by the Disciples. I numbered them in the order they will
occur; Jesus answered them in the order asked -- two
different orders.

 

[Ed Jones]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
Right or wrong about Pretrib -- I'm not going
into the Tribulation Period. I will not
let my family go into the Tribulation Period.
It is going to be hell on earth and my
family should not have to suffer it.

This is one of the problems of the Pre-Trib position, it puts our wants and desires before God’s glory and His Word. Jesus said:

Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

I know it would concern people greatly to have to go through the Tribulation period. It concerns me too. I’d much rather be raptured out before it begins, but I have to trust God when He says:

Psa 91:1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Psa 91:2 I will say of the LORD, [He is] my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
Psa 91:3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, [and] from the noisome pestilence.
Psa 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth [shall be thy] shield and buckler.
Psa 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; [nor] for the arrow [that] flieth by day;
Psa 91:6 [Nor] for the pestilence [that] walketh in darkness; [nor] for the destruction [that] wasteth at noonday.
Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; [but] it shall not come nigh thee.

Psa 91:14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
Psa 91:15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I WILL BE WITH HIM IN TROUBLE; I will deliver him, and honour him.
Psa 91:16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation. (emphasis mine)

We can’t interpret the Scriptures based on what we want them to say. We have to trust that God is able to see us through.

 

[Ed Jones]

Many who stand on the Pre-Trib position are like someone driving in a car and having it break down on a railroad track. They call for a tow truck from AAA and wait INSIDE their car. Their reasoning is the track is not active and in any case AAA (the Pre-Trib rapture) will come before a train does anyway. But we know that AAA always takes longer than they say…

Jesus said:

Luk 12:38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find [them] so, blessed are those servants.
Luk 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
Luk 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Because of the Scriptural problems with the Pre-Trib rapture, we can’t say that we will be moved before trouble comes. Therefore, get out of the car and be prepared in case the train comes. Don’t close your eyes and take a nap. If it turns out that the track is not active or AAA does come, it still will be OK.

 

[Ed Edwards]

In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
ask three questions:

(in the order asked):
1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
2. What is the sign of His coming?
3. What is the sign of the end of age?

Jesus answers these questions in
Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
some parables.

Here are the answers of Jesus in the
order the questions were asked:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-20

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:21-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

Here is a summary of the answers
in the order in which events will occur:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Soon, it was in 70AD

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
No signs preceeding the end of the age

2. What is the sign of His coming?
The Sign of His coming will be the
Tribulation period.

Recall the Greek language in which this
Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
So many ands, buts, and other connectors
give the outline. I believe the major
outline to be:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-20

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:21-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
Rapture/resurrection which ends the
current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
etc&gt

Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes not only the
immediate time before 70AD when the
AOD = abomination of desolation happened
(Matthe 24:15-2) but also all of the
church age even up to this time.
Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ed Jones: "This is one of the problems of the Pre-Trib position,
it puts our wants and desires before God’s glory and His Word."

Ah, good exercise that -- Jumping to Conclusions

Ed Jones: "We have to trust that God is able to see us through."

I trust God lot more than that.

Matthew 25:13 (KJV1769):
13 But he that shall endure unto the end,
the same shall be saved.

What of the one who does not endure to the end?
What becomes of them, shall they be saved.
I say YES!

The Thessalonians were familiar with
this saying of Jesus which we now find
recorded in Matthew 24:13 (KJV1873):

But he that shall endure unto
the end, the same shall be saved.

But some said of their friend "He got
sick and died before Jesus came to
get him, poor soul."

Paul addresses this problem in
a clearly pretribulation rapture passage
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11,
one of the most comforting passages in the
Bible.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11 (nKJV):

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning those who have fallen
asleep, lest you sorrow as others who
have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and
rose again, even so God will bring with Him
those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until
the coming of the Lord will by no means
precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend
from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain
shall be caught up (raptured)
together with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air. And thus we shall
always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons,
brethren, you have no need that I should
write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so comes as a thief
in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!"
then sudden destruction comes upon them,
as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness,
so that this Day should overtake
you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day.
We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do,
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night,
and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love,
and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation through our
Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify
one another, just as you also are doing.

Later the Thessalonians wondered if they
had missed the rapture. Paul corrects this
in a second letter:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (nKJV):

1 Now, brethren, concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and our gathering together to Him,
we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled,
either by spirit or by word or by letter,
as if from us, as though the day of Christ
had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless
the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin
is revealed, the son of perdition,

The falling away that comes first
is the Rapture!
Then the man of sin is revealed, the
antichrist. Then the Tribulation period
begins.

There is nothing HAS TO HAPPEN before
the rapture.
Here are some things that could happen
before the rapture but they do NOT
have to happen.

1) The destruction of Damascus (Isaiah 17)
2) the Ezekiel 38 Gog/Magog invastion
(the Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 20:8
Gog/Magog invasion will be after the
Tribulation period)
3) the building of a Temple in Jerusalem
on Mount Zion north of and alongside
the Dome of the Rock.

But again, these things do not HAVE
TO HAPPEN before the rapture, they may
happen after the rapture.

 

[Ed Jones]

Again, please read my previous posts. My earliest posts have to do with the direct inconsistency within the Pre-Trib position found in 2 Thess 2:3, not which verses work within the Pre-Trib position.

Many very intelligent and respectable people believe in the Pre-Trib position. There are seemingly many supportive passages. However that does not deal with the problem of inconsistent verses, and 2 Thess 2:3 is one of them.

This verse appears to indicate that the Day of the Lord occurs AFTER the falling away and the revealing of the man of sin. We agree that the start of Day of the Lord is signified by the rapture of the Church. Also when the man of sin is revealed, the first seal in the Revelation has been broken and the Tribulation officially begins. So one could easily conclude that the Rapture occurs after the beginning of the Tribulation. If this is not clear, see my first post on this thread.

The debate is not about whether or not there are points to support the Pre-Trib rapture position. I gladly concede that there are. My question is about the consistency of this position.

Only the Bible is inerrant. If there are verses found that are contrary to our positions, we have only two choices: resolve the contradictions or change our positions.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Ed Jones:
Many very intelligent and respectable people believe in the Pre-Trib position. There are seemingly many supportive passages. However that does not deal with the problem of inconsistent verses, and 2 Thess 2:3 is one of them.

Likewise, many very
intelligent and respectable people
believe in the post-trib ONLY rapture position.
BTW, you note i do believe in a post-tribulation
rapture, i just don't believe that is
the only rapture, for there will be a rapture
before the Tribulation Period.

BTW, the pretrib rapture will rapture
100s of millions; the postrib rapture will
rapture dozens. Guess which rapture I'm
a thinking will be the most significant

BTW, I was pretrib about 38 years before
i saw the pretribulation rapture in
2 Thess. 2:3

Have a nice day, Look up & Behold --
for your redemption drawerth nigh.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

REVELATION 3:10

Pretribbers intepreting Rev. 3:10 - 'kept from the hour of temptation' is rapture us from the 7 year tribulation period.

Does Rev. 3:10 actually saying it?

Does, 'hour of temptation' prove it is 7 year of Tribulation period?

Silence.

Hour is not just only for 60 minutes, Hour is a period, time.

There is an example verse to mentioned 'hour' in Mark 14:41 says, "And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners."

When afer Jesus prayed third time, He came and saw his disciples were still sleep, He to them, the hour is just arrived, time for Christ to be crucify on the cross. He does not die in the next hour after he was arrested as suppose he died on the cross at around 4 a.m. during very late night. He died at ninth hour(3 p.m.) about 12 hours later after he was arrested.

Hour means period, TIME.

Rev. 3:10 does NOT saying "7 year of Tribulation", it says,"HOUR of temptation".

Temptation is not God's wrath. Temptation is a trial, test.

Rev. 3:10 tells us, Christ promised us, IF we keep his commandment, He will protect us while face temptation same as in John 17:15 says,

"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world(sounds like as rapture), but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil."

Jesus prayed to his Father in heaven during Lord's supper. He asked his Father, not to take Christians out of the world, but to guard or protect them from the evil. Evil is temptation.

There is another verse as refer with Rev. 3:10 find in 1 Cor. 10:13 says,

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

We always face temptations. God knows our weakness are of temptations. But, It commands us that we re able to carry temptations while we must flee from make commit into sin.

Also, there is another refer with Rev. 3:10 in Rev. 2:10. It says,

"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; an ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto dath, and I will give thee a crown of life."

Rev. 2:10 tells us, that we must be endure while face temptations or persecutions do not be give up till death. Then shall receive the reward - Crown of Life.

There are compare of Rev. 2:10, Rev. 3:10-11 with James 1:12.

Rev. 2:10 compare with James 1:12:

Rev. 2:10 - "tried"

James 1:12 - "tried"


Rev. 2:10 - "crown of life"

James 1:12 - "crown of life"


Rev. 3:10-11 compare with James 1:12:

Rev. 3:10 - "try"

James 1:12 - "tried"


Rev. 3:11 - "crown"

James 1:12 - "crown of life".


Rev. 3:10 is not talk about wrath of God. It is talking about trials - temptations.


Matthew Henry's commentary on Rev. 3:10 he said:

[Italic]"By keeping the gospel they are prepared for the trial; and the same divine grace thathas made them fruitful in times of peace will make them faithful in TIMES of persecution." [/Italic]

Matthew Henry wrote commentary more than 100 years before pretribulation doctrine developed.

He understoods of Rev. 3:10 speaks of tempations.

We do NOT have to wait for the coming "hour of temptation" - 7 year of Tribulation period. We are facing temptations in our lifetime. Early Church include Church of Philadelphia already face tempations and persecutions in their lifetime.

We always face temptations, but we are able o escape from it.

Joseph is a good example of Rev. 3:10. In Gen. 39:7-13 telling us, Jospeh faced tempt from master's wife. She asked him to sex with him. He refused. Then again in the next several days, she keeps on tempt him asked the same qustion, he kept on stubborn and refuse her. One day, she tempted him, he refused, then, she grabbed his garment, then immediately he FLED!!

Same wih 1 Cor. 10:13 tells us that we have to carry temptations but able to flee from make commit fall into sin.

Rev. 3:10 promises us, IF we keep His commandment, He will take care of us while face temptation. OR..... if we do not keep his commandment, when temptation come upon us, we might fall into sin and mess up.

Rev. 3:10 is not talk about gathering tgether, resurrection, coming of Christ, desend of Christ. Re. 3:10 talks about tempations - trials and tests.

Rev. 3:10 is not the proof or evidence of pretrib rapture.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

[ September 29, 2003, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: DeafPosttrib ]

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Daniel 9:24-27 say nothig about Antichrist will sign treaty with Israel to begin 7 year of tribulation period.

The context of Dan. 9:24-27 focus on only ON person - Jesus the Messiah an Cavary to make new covenant for many both Jews and Gentiles.

He was cut off in the midst of the week by crucified on the cross. He put the sacrifices and Old Testament ecomony to end - John 19:30.

There is NO gap time between Dan. 9:26 & 27 for 2000 years. Dan. 9:26 tells us, Christ was cut off AFTER 69th week, means he was crucifed DURING 70th week.

Nothing in the context of Dan. 9:24-27 speak of Antichrist. The context speaks on one person - Jesus the Messiah.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ed,

There is no difference between tribulation and 'great tribulation' of Matt 24:21. Both are same defintion.

The Bible doesn't promise us that we shall escape from tribulation or persecution.

John 16:33; Acts 14:22; and Romans 5:1-5 and more... telling us, that we must go through MUCH tribulation into the kingdom.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[Downsville]

And AMEN

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
REVELATION 3:10

Pretribbers intepreting Rev. 3:10 - 'kept from the hour of temptation' is rapture us from the 7 year tribulation period.

Does Rev. 3:10 actually saying it?

Does, 'hour of temptation' prove it is 7 year of Tribulation period?

I don't use Revelation 3:10
to prove a pretribulation rapture.
You are destroying a strawman nobody
brought to this discussion.

We have enough to discuss without
demolishing strawmen.

 

[Ed Edwards]

DeafPosttrib: "The context of Dan. 9:24-27 focus on only ON person - Jesus
the Messiah an Cavary to make new covenant for many both Jews and Gentiles"

Let us stop then and debate the
resolution of the first "he" in Daniel 9:27.

I think it is the evil one.
Jesus agrees, read Matthew 24:15.

Or are you trying to convince me that both
Jesus and the Antichrist comit the AOD
but at different time???

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ed,

I will continue to debate with you more. I have to go to work tonight - 3rd shift job. I will reply back to you more tomorrow.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

btw, the fact of Rev. 3:10, what pretribulationism really teaching. Not by my idea. That is fact. you know that.

 

[Ed Edwards]

May your workshift be a good success
for you. Glad you got your computer
resurrected from the dead

 

[Eric B]

From my Revelation page:
ch. 14:14-16 BIBLICAL TIMING OF THE RAPTURE

Christ is now shown with a sharp sickle reaping the "harvest of the earth"

17-20 Then an angel with another sickle is shown gathering the "clusters of the vine" which is thrown into the "winepress of the wrath of God". This is all obviously the fulfillment of Matthew 25:31-34 where Jesus said He would return with all His holy angels, and gather and separate the nations-- "sheep" and "goats"-- one group welcomed to His Kingdom, the other rejected. And in Matthew 13, the parable of the wheat and tares, He describes the same thing, saying that He and the angels would reap the earth.

THIS IS THE RAPTURE-- the first mention of such an event in the prophecy. And Paul had said it would occur at "the last trump" (1 Cor.15:52). The last or 7th trumpet began in ch. 11:15, and includes all events up until now (except of course, for the historical portions of ch. 12&13).

So we see now, the rapture occurs before the final bowl judgments; it's not quite "post-tribulational", but AFTER the 5th seal ("tribulation") and trumpets-- also not "mid-tribulational" or "pre-wrath". It is MID-wrath (God's "wrath" beginning with the mainly humanly carried out trumpets, and being completed (Rev.15:1) in the entirely divinely carried out bowls.) This is the most clear, plain timing of the Rapture. Ch.11:18 also pictures the resurrection of the saints (which occurs at the same time as the rapture) as being at this time. The popular pre-tribulational theory is rightly called by Adventist writers a "cop-out" doctrine. It betrays a purely Americanized church that in their own words don't believe that God would ever do such a thing to us (leaving us on the earth during the reign of Antichrist). Christ had told us to watch and pray that we be counted worthy to escape all these things. (Luke 21:36) He didn't say that if we were saved, we would all automatically be taken away from it all. (The fact that the Philadelphia church is specifically promised to be "kept from the hour of testing" seems to point to special protection of some, rather than the immediate rapture of the whole church before any of the seals or trumpets).

People quote 1 Thess.5:9-- "We are not appointed to wrath, but to obtain salvation from our Lord Jesus Christ". But this scripture is obviously talking about salvation. The so-called "tribulation saints" who get saved after the pre-trib rapture won't be appointed to [God's eternal] "wrath" [in Hell] either, but they will still suffer the human portion of the "wrath". And besides, they will be spared from the final divine wrath of the bowl judgments, anyway.

People suggest Paul's "last" trump is not the same as John's 7th trump because Paul wrote before John and didn't know about the seven. But it was the same God who inspired both, and he revealed a "last" trump to Paul (suggesting it was the end of a series), and further revealed all seven to John, in his more prophetically detailed "Revelation". The point is, could any trumpet before the 7th Trumpet truly be considered the last trump? And if anyone suggests that this harvest is just a special second rapture for the "tribulation saints" who had been "left behind", from an earlier rapture, no two raptures are ever mentioned.

There is absolutely no proof that the Holy Spirit is "he who now restrains...until he be taken away"(2 Thess.2:7-10), implying that the Church goes with Him, before the Antichrist arises. That is just an interpretation that was just arbitrarily plugged in there. For all we know it could be Satan. He keeps his plans hidden (to prolong his time on earth) until Christ forces him to come out with his plot so that all may be fulfilled. It has also been suggested that it could be an angel. Even if it was the Spirit, where do we get this idea that the Spirit is only where the church of this age is? The left behind "tribulation saints" will have the Spirit, won't they?

That the Church is not directly mentioned in the bulk of Revelation (another "proof" that we won't be here)is because this prophecy is primarily about the world scene. There are many references to "the faithful", but of course, these are said to refer to the "tribulation saints".

The best argument would seem to be Christ's warning about his coming as "a thief in the night"; "at an hour when you think not" (Rev. 3:3, Matt. 24:36-51). This is called "immanence". But the whole context is watchfulness. The reason people are caught off guard in the first place, is not just because they are doing wrong, but also because they are not WATCHing. And this suggests that there were signs that one could observe to know that the end was near. (Matt. 24:32, 33, 16:2,3, 2 Peter 3:10) And then Christ goes on to tell us to watch and pray. Our escaping is based upon our WORKS, while the rapture is attached to our salvation, which is based on FAITH. Meanwhile, it's the pre-trib theory that may actually fulfill it's own proof-text. People will go through all of the seals and trumpets (rigorously engaged in the politics of the 2-horned system all the way), and say "these can't be the fulfillments of the end times prophecies-- We're still here!". And thus Christ's coming truly will be in an hour they know not!

I've even heard that if the rapture wasn't pre-tribulational, we would not be able to "comfort one another with these words" (1 Thess. 4:18) But we forget that the 1st century Christians Paul wrote to were already in tribulation-like circumstances. The beginning of the seals and trumpets would simply mean to them that this world was almost over, and that they only had a short wait, (ch. 6:11) and this would be a comfort to them. But not to us. We today are so cozy in this country, and so enmeshed in the monetary system (churches and ministries are organized as non-profit corporations, with the leaders making money off of it; people who believe mark of beast will be some sort of electronic card now use them themselves. Who wants to one day have to give all that up?). We know that we have a lot to lose when this system goes down, and people can't deal with that. So they opt for the pre-trib theory. As it is, we have enjoyed a peace and wealth not known to earlier people of God. But God never promised us it would always be like this. But we've become accustomed to it. Even though all the saints in the Bible from at least Noah, up to Jesus Himself, and centuries of martyrs after that, had to suffer. But God would never put us through such discomfort!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Notice the nKJV interpertation of the resolution
of the "he". Here "he" is the AntiChrist

Daniel 9 (nKJV):

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to
sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations
shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation,
which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

The translators of the nKJV believe that
he "who confirms a covenant with many for
one week" is the one we know as AC=Antichrist.
The translators of the nKJV believe that
He who brings "an end to sacrifice and offering"
is the Messiah, whom we know is Jesus.
The translators of the nKJV gives no clue
as to whom will cause "And on the wing of abominations
shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation,
which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.

But i sure have a hard time believing that Jesus
would commit an "abomination". My dictionary
says abomination = anything that is hateful and disgusting.
I can't see Jesus, the perfect lamb of God, doing something
hateful and disgusting.

The New King James Version

Daniel 9:26 (nKJV):

And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off,
but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who
is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end
of the war desolations are determined.

Two people are mentioned here:
1. "Messiah"
2. "the prince who is to come"

The actions are:
1. Messiah shall be cut off
2. the prince who is to come,
his people Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (temple).

Hello! two people.
Can you see Messiah destroying Jerusalem?
Can you see Messiah destroying the Temple?

Daniel 9:26-27 (KJV1769):

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off,
but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall
come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;
and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end
of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
and in the midst of the week he shall cause the
sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abomination
he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation,
and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The old standard, King James Version, does NOT give any
clue as to the resolution of the "he".

Here is your homework (with the correct answer )
Identify "Messiah" -- Jesus
Identify "prince that shall come" -- "Antichrist"
Identify "the people of the prince" -- Romans

However, the KJV1769 does delineate two different people
in Daniel 9:26.
The capital M in Messiah and the small P in prince is the
clue: Messiah is diety, prince is non-diety
(compare with capital P Prince in verse 25)