Why The RCC Is A Cult

[PreachTony]

Where in the Bible does God approve of any praying to mary or any of the Apostles in order to have them intercede on our behalf though?

ONLY Jesus and the Holy Spirit are able to do that for the saved, as they are both God!

Walter and lakeside have been carrying the Catholic banner in this discussion, and lakeside may have given us some insight into where some of their teachings come from.

Here was his quote:

You Protestants say I'm wrong in my interpretation of my previous verses/passages. How can you prove it? You mean you think Jesus left a loose-knit church and to each his own on interpretating the scriptures? Far from it! Apparently you haven't read the Bible as well as you think.
Again,who is to say your understandings of the scripture is correct? The Lutheran,Methodist,Baptist, Presbyterian,1st Baptist,etc,etc all claim their's is the correct individual interpretation. Who has the correct understanding? How about the Church that selected the correct Canonical Books,and that was the Catholic Church, right, RIGHT. Where do you turn when you cannot see eye-to-eye on a certain scriptural verse? The Bible? What does the Bible say?
You think of the Bible as the 'only' source of God's revelation or authority,but no where does Scripture teach such a notion or doctrine.
You have also missed the message from the scriptures. How could 36,400 sects all have the same understanding? If the truth is one and you claim you comprehend, then why the need to have new churches?

Consider:

You think of the Bible as the 'only' source of God's revelation or authority,but no where does Scripture teach such a notion or doctrine.

 

[lakeside]

Yeshua 1, you wrote: "Where in the Bible does God approve of any praying to mary or any of the Apostles in order to have them intercede on our behalf though?

When we honor and venerate God's saints, we are really honoring God Himself, for we are recognizing and praising the beauty of His creations. God accepts the prayers of the worthy ones, be it on earth or in Heaven.

Gal.1:24, Phil.3: 17-20, 1Thess. 1: 6-7, 2 Thess. 3:7, 1 Cor.11: 1, 1Cor 12:24-27,

The description in those previous verses and passages illustrates the communion of saints in the biblical model. Because we love God, we love His friends. And we know that because God loves us, His friends love us, too.
If you think otherwise then do not pray for anybody, that includes prayer request from your minister or friends also.
But, remember, that the Bible tells us that God likes to hear the prayers from His "worthy'' Christians.

 

[OldRegular]

Consider:

Originally Posted by lakeside
You think of the Bible as the 'only' source of God's revelation or authority,but no where does Scripture teach such a notion or doctrine.

PT, I believe that there are two primary reasons that the one time Christian Church at Rome morphed into the Cult of Roman Catholicism.

One is as you quote above. They do not recognize the Bible as the only revealed Word of God but instead substitute the words of the infallible pope and the teaching magisterium and those words take precedence over the Word of God, the Bible.

The second which I have presented a number of times is the statement by Philip Schaff in his History of the Christian Church. Schaff writes [Volume 2, page 73]:

With Constantine, therefore, the last of the heathen, the first of the Christian, emperors, a new period begins. The church ascends the throne of the Caesars under the banner of the once despised, now honored and triumphant cross, and gives new vigor and lustre to the hoary empire of Rome.[emphasis added]

Schaff further writes [Volume 3, page 12]:

Constantine, the first Christian Caesar, the founder of Constantinople and the Byzantine empire, and one of the most gifted, energetic, and successful of the Roman emperors, was the first representative of the imposing idea of a Christian theocracy, or of that system of policy which assumes all subjects to be Christians, connects civil and religious rights, and regards church and state as the two arms of one and the same divine government on earth. This idea was more fully developed by his successors, it animated the whole middle age, and is yet working under various forms in these latest times; though it has never been fully realized, whether in the Byzantine, the German, or the Russian empire, the Roman church-state the Calvinistic republic of Geneva, or the early Puritanic colonies of New England. At the same time, however, Constantine stands also as the type of an undiscriminating and harmful conjunction of Christianity with politics, of the holy symbol of peace with the horrors of war, of the spiritual interests of the kingdom of heaven with the earthly interests of the state.

Although Schaff refers to Constantine as the first Christian Caesar it is not certain from a study of his life that he was a ‘true believer’. Constantine refused baptism until shortly before his death so that he might “secure all the benefit of baptism as a complete expiation of past sins” [Schaff, Volume 3, page 11ff].

 

[Yeshua1]

Yeshua 1, you wrote: "Where in the Bible does God approve of any praying to mary or any of the Apostles in order to have them intercede on our behalf though?

When we honor and venerate God's saints, we are really honoring God Himself, for we are recognizing and praising the beauty of His creations. God accepts the prayers of the worthy ones, be it on earth or in Heaven.

Gal.1:24, Phil.3: 17-20, 1Thess. 1: 6-7, 2 Thess. 3:7, 1 Cor.11: 1, 1Cor 12:24-27,

The description in those previous verses and passages illustrates the communion of saints in the biblical model. Because we love God, we love His friends. And we know that because God loves us, His friends love us, too.
If you think otherwise then do not pray for anybody, that includes prayer request from your minister or friends also.
But, remember, that the Bible tells us that God likes to hear the prayers from His "worthy'' Christians.

We do NOT speak or share communion with dead saint, as Fod forbid that in the OT, and was worthy of death if one practiced that!

Again, the ONLY ones we are commanded to worship/venerate/seek and commune with is father/Sin/Holy Spirit!

ANY believer in jesus is JUST as "special" to God as mary and the Apostles, no difference between us and them in dight of God, so would you pray to those who have NO way or means to heat or intercede for you, when Jesus ALONE is worthy of that?

 

[DHK]

For the apparent differences that you see among Evangelical Christianity it pales in comparison to the differences among the various sects of Catholicism. The RCC is like a chameleon blending in with different pagan religions even absorbing some of their various pagan practices.

A missionary from Mexico used to post here and tell how in Mexico they would bow down before idols there and offer sacrifices to idols. Pure paganism.
Then you probably know about Charismatic Catholics.
Old Rite Catholics.
You have your liberal wing that is pushing for female priests.

Some examples:


There are NO various sects of the Holy Catholic Church. There are different rites but they are of the same faith. Evangelicalism is a MESS. You have more and more evangelicals all the time who ordain non-celibate homosexuals.

These are not evangelicals, obviously.

Many have predicted that the evangelical collapse regarding homosexuality will be swift and for the very reason that their biblical interpretation is already so very individualized and they make much of being moved by the Spirit, God speaking to their hearts etc. For the most part it always been a house of cards waiting for one strong breeze to knock the whole thing over. You have evangelicals who deny that anyone goes to Hell (Rob Bell & company), you have evangelicals denying the virgin birth, evangelicals who believe in Soul Sleep, and the list goes on and on and on. You have the cal/non-cal gang right here on the good ole' BB that are at each others throats all the time. NASTY, NASTY remarks made about each other. What kind of Christian witness is that??? No your divisions are DEEP and getting DEEPER all the time. The evangelical house of cards is falling faster than I would have ever thought.

You are not speaking of evangelicals. Perhaps you better find out what one is. You haven't proven your point.
Perhaps I should better prove mine for you:

Gay orgies and 'murder' scandals engulf Vatican

The Vatican has been embroiled in two separate, highly embarrassing scandals.

The Vatican has been embroiled in two separate, highly embarrassing, scandals.
In one, a north Italian priest has been removed from office after allegations emerged that he had been surfing the internet to find gay lovers and had been involved in gay orgies.

The other, which has generated – if possible – even more lurid press coverage in Italy, alleges a priest in the south of the country is under investigation on suspicion of murdering one of his parishioners.
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...-engulf-vatican/ar-AAaC0X8?ocid=mailsignoutmd

It just never stops does it.
It is almost daily news.

 

[Yeshua1]

These are not evangelicals, obviously.

You are not speaking of evangelicals. Perhaps you better find out what one is. You haven't proven your point.
Perhaps I should better prove mine for you:

It just never stops does it.
It is almost daily news.

The problem is that RCC forbids the Clergy to be married, and yet the Lord Himself said that ot would be better for a man to do such, then to burn with lust!

 

[BrotherJoseph]

But OldRegular, "The Bible says, { NEW TESTAMENT, it contains the Teachings of Jesus }just as Walter wrote in his previous post----" I am already saved Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8, but I’m also being saved 1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12, and I have the hope that I will be saved Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15. St. Paul said: 'I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling' Phil. 2:12, 'with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ' Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13." Why do you question the Teachings of Jesus ?

Lakeside,Paul said he was saved before the world began (II Tim 1:9), when Jesus came into the world (I Tim 1:15), when the Spirit regenerated him (Titus 3:5), when he took heed to himself and the doctrine (I Tim 4:16), and would be saved sometime in the future (Rom 13:11). In these verses, Paul clearly mentions five different stages or phases of salvation.It used to be called the Ordo Salutis of salvation, which means the order of salvation; but it is not studied or preached much any more. We live in the perilous times of the last days, when men no longer want sound doctrine preached to them (II Tim 3:1 - 4:4).

The ETERNAL PHASE is God's plan and choice from eternity to allow sin into the world and to save His elect from it. Since He is eternal and sovereign, God planned in eternity all that He does in time. There are no surprises to God. He planned to allow sin, so that He could display His glorious grace in saving His elect from it and displaying His power and wrath on the rest.

The LEGAL PHASE is God's work to satisfy His holy nature and perfect justice for the salvation of His elect. Because every sin must be punished, He sent a Substitute to die for their sins. His perfect holiness and justice cannot overlook sins and acquit wicked men. He must punish their sins in Another, even Jesus Christ. And this He did at the crucifixion of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.

The VITAL PHASE is God's application of these benefits to us personally and individually. Though He planned to save us from eternity and legally did so with Christ's death on the cross, we still have a depraved and wicked nature at enmity with Him. So He regenerates us into a new life by His Spirit and gives us a new heart that loves Him and righteousness. This is being born again, and it is done entirely by the power of God sometime during our lives.

The PRACTICAL PHASE is our response to His salvation. He sends His Spirit into our hearts, and we cry "Abba, Father." With new hearts from regeneration, we seek the truth and love it when we hear it. We hear the gospel, and we believe it. We want to be baptized to show Him our love. We want to know more of what we can do to please Him, and we gratefully cherish all His promises, which give us comfort and peace now.

The FINAL PHASE is that great day in the future when we shall be declared the sons of God to the whole universe and enter heaven for eternity. Our bodies will be raised from graves and glorified into new spiritual bodies, and we will be thoroughly purged from all sin to be perfectly holy in His presence forever. This great conclusion to the plan of salvation is yet in the future.

 

[Yeshua1]

Lakeside,Paul said he was saved before the world began (II Tim 1:9), when Jesus came into the world (I Tim 1:15), when the Spirit regenerated him (Titus 3:5), when he took heed to himself and the doctrine (I Tim 4:16), and would be saved sometime in the future (Rom 13:11). In these verses, Paul clearly mentions five different stages or phases of salvation.It used to be called the Ordo Salutis of salvation, which means the order of salvation; but it is not studied or preached much any more. We live in the perilous times of the last days, when men no longer want sound doctrine preached to them (II Tim 3:1 - 4:4).

The ETERNAL PHASE is God's plan and choice from eternity to allow sin into the world and to save His elect from it. Since He is eternal and sovereign, God planned in eternity all that He does in time. There are no surprises to God. He planned to allow sin, so that He could display His glorious grace in saving His elect from it and displaying His power and wrath on the rest.

The LEGAL PHASE is God's work to satisfy His holy nature and perfect justice for the salvation of His elect. Because every sin must be punished, He sent a Substitute to die for their sins. His perfect holiness and justice cannot overlook sins and acquit wicked men. He must punish their sins in Another, even Jesus Christ. And this He did at the crucifixion of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.

The VITAL PHASE is God's application of these benefits to us personally and individually. Though He planned to save us from eternity and legally did so with Christ's death on the cross, we still have a depraved and wicked nature at enmity with Him. So He regenerates us into a new life by His Spirit and gives us a new heart that loves Him and righteousness. This is being born again, and it is done entirely by the power of God sometime during our lives.

The PRACTICAL PHASE is our response to His salvation. He sends His Spirit into our hearts, and we cry "Abba, Father." With new hearts from regeneration, we seek the truth and love it when we hear it. We hear the gospel, and we believe it. We want to be baptized to show Him our love. We want to know more of what we can do to please Him, and we gratefully cherish all His promises, which give us comfort and peace now.

The FINAL PHASE is that great day in the future when we shall be declared the sons of God to the whole universe and enter heaven for eternity. Our bodies will be raised from graves and glorified into new spiritual bodies, and we will be thoroughly purged from all sin to be perfectly holy in His presence forever. This great conclusion to the plan of salvation is yet in the future.

Church of Rome switches around justification and sanctification, as they demand a sinner be made right enough before God, through the means of Sacramental grace, can merit salvation unto them!

 

[lakeside]

Not to worry,God's Church always wins in the end.

 

[OldRegular]

Not to worry,God's Church always wins in the end.

God's Church will but that will not include the Cult of Roman Catholicism.

They are antichrist, substituting the worship and adoration of Mary for the worship and adoration of God.

The are antichrist, attempting to make Mary co-redeemer.

What more need be said?

 

[lakeside]

OldRegular, So you really do not believe in Christ's Apostolic Church. So,can you give me one instance, from Scripture, of someone who was saved by reading the Bible? You do realize, that the early Christians were not saved by reading the Bible, right? They were saved by men who were indeed interested in promoting a Church…the Church founded by Jesus Christ "THEN" not 1500 years later.

 

[DHK]

OldRegular, So you really do not believe in Christ's Apostolic Church. So,can you give me one instance, from Scripture, of someone who was saved by reading the Bible? You do realize, that the early Christians were not saved by reading the Bible, right? They were saved by men who were indeed interested in promoting a Church…the Church founded by Jesus Christ "THEN" not 1500 years later.

Why do you keep parroting this false RCC lie.
What does the Bible say:

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

One is born again or saved by the Word of God. That is the only way to find Christ.
The Ethiopian Eunuch was riding in his chariot reading the Word of God. Some things were hard for him to understand. The Spirit of God directed Philip to help him. Philip started from the same place where he was reading (Isaiah), and preached unto him Jesus. He was saved through the Word of God.

Paul commended the Bereans for their study of the Word of God. They accepted nothing without checking first with the Word of God. Their salvation came through the Word of God.
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Faith comes through the Word of God.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Man is justified by faith.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[OldRegular]

OldRegular, So you really do not believe in Christ's Apostolic Church. So,can you give me one instance, from Scripture, of someone who was saved by reading the Bible? You do realize, that the early Christians were not saved by reading the Bible, right? They were saved by men who were indeed interested in promoting a Church…the Church founded by Jesus Christ "THEN" not 1500 years later.

I believe what you call

Christ's Apostolic Church

is nothing but a religious cult that grew out of the marriage of some of the early churches, primarily the church at Rome, and the residue of the fallen Roman Empire as Schaff so eloquently stated, though I doubt it was his intent. Schaff wrote [Volume 2, page 73]:

With Constantine, therefore, the last of the heathen, the first of the Christian, emperors, a new period begins. The church ascends the throne of the Caesars under the banner of the once despised, now honored and triumphant cross, and gives new vigor and lustre to the hoary empire of Rome.[emphasis added]

Though the Old Testament did exist in written form the at the time of Jesus Christ the New Testament was written over the next ~100 years. Therefore, few had the written Bible available. Then sometime after Constantine took over the Church it became a crime for anyone other than Cult officials to possess the Scripture. Trent came much later but they justify that practice as follows:

Furthermore, in order to restrain petulant spirits, It decrees, that no one, relying on his own skill, shall,--in matters of faith, and of morals pertaining to the edification of Christian doctrine, --wresting the sacred Scripture to his own senses, presume to interpret the said sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which holy mother Church,--whose it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy Scriptures,--hath held and doth hold; or even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers; even though such interpretations were never (intended) to be at any time published. Contraveners shall be made known by their Ordinaries, and be punished with the penalties by law established.http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct04.html

I realize that presenting Scripture in an attempt to teach a Cultist anything is about as useless as shoveling sand against the tide but one more time:

Isaiah 55:11. So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

I realize that it is foreign to you but it is God who saves people. It is definitely not a pope, a cardinal, a bishop, a priest, a preacher, an evangelist, a pastor, even continually re-sacrificing Jesus Christ in the mass that saves a person.

No one except God saves man and that only through the once-for-all-time Sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. But, one more time, God tells us:

Isaiah 55:11. So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

But you don't believe that. You and the Roman Cult have long ago discarded the Bible and replaced it by the words of the various popes, infidel or not, and the teaching magisterium, infidel or not!

 

[BrotherJoseph]

OldRegular, So you really do not believe in Christ's Apostolic Church. So,can you give me one instance, from Scripture, of someone who was saved by reading the Bible? You do realize, that the early Christians were not saved by reading the Bible, right? They were saved by men who were indeed interested in promoting a Church…the Church founded by Jesus Christ "THEN" not 1500 years later.

Lakeside, the apostolic church does exist, however it did not go through Rome as you imply above, nor did it begin at the time of the Reformation. There is a line of believers that can be traced from the time of the apostles to the present that were never members of the Church of Rome. If you are truly interested in learning the truth I suggest you read Hassel's History of the Church of God From The creation To AD 1885 by Sylvester Hassell The book can be found online for free here -http://www.pbministries.org/History//S.%20Hassell/church_of_god.htm The chapters are divided into centuries in chronological order through history, thus you can read particular centuries you are interested in.

As far as the marks of an apostolic church according to the model found in the Bible, Hassel lays out 12 Marks of an Aposolic church with support from scripture- I pasted them below. I challenge you to review them and ask yourself if the Roman Catholic church indeed exhibits these signs? They do not. The scriptures supporting these marks are in the book. The marks are below-

Twelve Marks Of The Apostolic Church PDF Print E-mail

Written by Sylvester Hassell

By Sylvester Hassell

Published in Hassell's History, 1886

Shorter, Condensed Text

1st Mark. The apostolic church consisted only of those persons who had been convicted of sin by the Holy Ghost, and who had given signs of repentance towards God, and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

2nd Mark. True baptism,--the immersion, of believers in water, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

3rd Mark. The members being baptized believers, came frequently around the Lord’s table, to commemorate the sufferings and death of their precious Redeemer, by partaking of the common bread to represent His broken body, and common wine, to represent His shed blood for them.

4th Mark. The maintenance of strict discipline.

5th Mark. The independent or congregation polity or government of each local church, subject only to the Headship of Christ; all the local apostolic churches being united by no outward bond of force, but by an inward bond of love.

6th Mark. The religious liberty, soul-freedom, a complete separation of church and state, the entire independence of each church from all state control, so far as regards the membership, ministry, organization, faith, worship and discipline of the church.

7th Mark. With a few exceptions, the members were generally poor, obscure, unlearned, afflicted, despised and persecuted.

8th Mark. The fraternal equality, the essential priesthood, of all the members, in accordance with which fact they choose to office among them those of their number whom they perceive to be already qualified thereunto by the spirit of God--there being but two classes of officers, bishops, or elders, or pastors, and deacons; the fraternal equality of all the members involving the eternal equality of the ministry.

9th Mark. Possession of an humble, God-called and God-qualified ministry.

10th Mark. That while the ministry received voluntary help from the churches, they were not salaried, but labored themselves, more or less, for their own support.

11th Mark. The sending out of the divinely called and qualified ministry by the Holy Spirit in themselves and in the churches, their going forth, withersoever the Lord directed them, in simple dependence upon Him, and their preaching the gospel to every creature, whether Jew or Gentile, and especially shepherding the lambs and sheep of Christ.

12th Mark. That it--the church--was absolutely the only divinely recognized religious organization in the world.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

OldRegular, So you really do not believe in Christ's Apostolic Church. So,can you give me one instance, from Scripture, of someone who was saved by reading the Bible? You do realize, that the early Christians were not saved by reading the Bible, right? They were saved by men who were indeed interested in promoting a Church…the Church founded by Jesus Christ "THEN" not 1500 years later.

Lakeside, There were little known Christian apostolic churches prior to the Protestant Reformation that were outside the Catholic church and not descendants of. You can research them online. I posted from a book regarding this below (if you do not have the time to read all the below at least read the portions I highlighted in black) Thanks and God bless you Lakeside!-

"The Paulicians, Paterines, and Waldenses."

The Paulicians arose about the middle of the seventh century and continued till the eleventh century, when they amalgamated with the Waldenses and other kindred sects (Benedict p. 51). The Paterines arose about the tenth century in Italy. They spread extensively in that kingdom, also in Poland, Bohemia and France, and were finally absorbed, in the thirteenth century, in the great body of the Waldenses. Mr. T. R. Burnett, a Campbellite editor and debater, said, "The Baptists have connection with the apostles through their line of succession. which extends back three hundred and fifty years, where it connects with the Waldensian line, and that reaches to the apostolic day."--Christian Messenger, Dec. 8, 1886. Three hundred and fifty years carries the Baptists back to 1536, and there the Primitive Baptists, Brunett says, connect with the Waldensian line, and that line connects them with the "apostolic day." The Catholics accused the Waldenses of being two-seeders, of believing that God was the author of sin. that man is like a log or a stone, and that, according to their views of predestination, "It is of little consequence whether we do good or evil," and "that we reject repentance and confession of sins," and "that the church was once actually lost." Now read their answer to the above charges: "We do therefore reject all the above articles falsely imputed to us, as heretical; we condemn and detest them; and from the very heart denounce an anathema against those who teach them."--Peyran's History of the Waldenses, pp. 467, 468. Lindanus, who was a Catholic. said that Calvin inherited the doctrine of the Waldenses. Mezeray said of the Waldenses, "They held nearly the same opinions as those who are now called Calvinists." Gualtier, a Catholic monk. said that the principles of the Waldenses and those of the Calvinists coincided with each other. Pope Plus II declared the doctrine taught by Calvin to be the same as that of the Waldenses. (Jones, p. 297.)
(From book Baptists In All Ages: Chapter III Written by J.S. Newman)

Baptists In All Ages: Chapter II

The Montanists and Novatians of the third century.

[B][NOTE: In this chapter Elder Newman discusses the Montanists and Novatians of the third century, also the Donatists of the fourth century. According to Roman Catholic records, the Novatians were condemned by the General Council of Nice. The Donatists were condemned by the Catholics at Rome in 313. and at Arles in 314.--Catholic Religion Defined, page 534.] [/B]Jesus the Son of God said. "Ye shall know them by their fruits." --Matt. vii. 16. Remember that the charges that were pronounced against these Baptists were made by the dominant party. The two main charges made against the different groups of Baptists were that they were two-seeders or Manichaeans and they "rebaptized the members that came over to them." These things were told on all the different sections of those whom we claim as our religious ancestors. which is sufficient to prove that these different groups of Baptists all believed fundamentally the same things. As they all had the same origin and all believed, the same doctrine and adhered to the same practice, it follows to a demonstration that they were the same people, though frequently known and called by different names. Montanus did not originate the people called by his name. He protested against the corruption that had in various ways, at different times and places and by different designing men found its way into some of the local churches of Jesus Christ. Montanism first appeared at Phrygia, which at that time comprised the greater part of Asia Minor, about the middle of the second century. At this time there was no fundamental and no noticeable departure from New Testament doctrine. Some of the city churches had allowed new things in practice to enter in among them. which was a source of annoyance to such men as Montanus and Tertullian. "Let it be remembered that the 'theological' chairs of the German universities have been the greatest strongholds of infidelity in the nineteenth century. The chief opposition to the Alexandrian school and to Gnosticism and to the substitution of philosophy for Christianity was, in the second century, made by those called the Montanists, of whom Tertullian became, in the third century, the ablest writer. *** They sought to emphasize the great importance of the spirituality and purity of the church, and especially the absolute indispensability of the Holy Ghost and the dispensableness of human philosophy. 'Tertullian calls the Greek philosophers the patriarchs of all heresies, and scornfully asks, What has the academy to do with the church?' "--Hassell, p. 367.

It is a fact well known by all historians that Montanus, Tertullian and Donatus were all members of the same church at Carthage in north Africa. The corruption that had from time to time found it way into this church seemed to be more than a match for Montanus: and Tertullian, and they withdrew from the majority represented by Cyprian, who had introduced a modified form of Catholicism into this church. Cyprian was teaching this church the heresy known as church salvation and baptismal regeneration, while Montanus and Tertullian "denied that baptism was the channel of grace."--Armitage p. 177. Schaff says, "Montanism was not originally a departure from the faith, but a morbid overestimating of the practice of morality at the early church."--Vol. 1, p. 302. Montanus, Donatus and Tertullian were together at Carthage. Donatus went to Rome and joined Novatian and it is a fact that Novatian did not require Donatus to be baptized again. Novatian recognized the work of Montanus, Tertullian and Donatus, but rejected the work of Cyprian at Carthage and those allied with them, as well as the work of Cornelius of Rome and those who stood with him. Hassell, p. 67, says,, "Novatian was a prudent advocate of the faith generally embraced in the church." He believed in predestination as held to by the Primitive Baptists of our day. He held to a regenerate church membership and reimmersed all who came to them from the dominant or Catholic party. They were called Anabaptists by those denominated the Catholic party.

The Donatists, like the Novatians, insisted on the purity of the church and declared that the church at Carthage (meaning the dominant party had fallen from the dignity of a true church and deprived herself of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Their enemies said, "Hence they pronounced the sacred rites and institutions void of all virtue and efficacy among those Christians who were not precisely of their sentiments, and not only rebaptized those who came over to their party from other churches, but even with respect to those who had been ordained ministers of the gospel, they observed the severe custom, either of depriving them of their office, or obliging them to be ordained a second time."--Mosheim, part 2, Chap. 5, Sec. 8. The above expresses the objection the Catholics had to the Donatists and exactly what is still held against their descendants, and in this we see an exact likeness of the Primitive Baptists of our day. "The Donatists maintained that the church should cast out from its body those who were known by open and manifest sins to be unworthy members."--Neander, Vol. 2, p. 203. "They refused infant baptism."--Long.

The Paulicians are another sect everywhere spoken against through which we trace the church, and when we begin to study their history about the first objection to them is they were Manichaeans and "rebaptized" all that came to them from the Catholics. These same charges were made against Tertullian, Montanus, Novatian and Donatus, which proves that these different groups of the same people known by different names were Calvinistic in their theology.
(From book Baptists In All Ages: Chapter III Written by J.S. Newman)

 

[Rebel]

You know, I have never thought the RCC should be called a cult. But the more I read what its defenders have to say, the more I realize that it does possess some marks of a cult. It twists scriptures, denies clear history, believes in and practices development of doctrine, has an "infallible" leader", idolizes created beings, proclaims itself "the only true church", and other things. I don't doubt that there are good, sincere, born-again believers in its ranks, but the organization, the institution, is very far gone from the churches described in the NT.

 

[OldRegular]

BrotherJoseph

I have read some in Hassel's book. Dad had a well worn copy. It is somewhere in the family. I have the book on Kindle but it is difficult to read and there are a lot of errors. The link you gave appears to be in much better shape.

I recall many years ago, about 45 I guess, I used those 12 marks of a true Church teaching a Southern Baptist SS Class!

I assume you realize that trying to reason with those who hold the false religion of Roman Catholicism is as useless as trying to shovel sand against the tide.

 

[OldRegular]

You know, I have never thought the RCC should be called a cult. But the more I read what its defenders have to say, the more I realize that it does possess some marks of a cult. It twists scriptures, denies clear history, believes in and practices development of doctrine, has an "infallible" leader", idolizes created beings, proclaims itself "the only true church", and other things. I don't doubt that there are good, sincere, born-again believers in its ranks, but the organization, the institution, is very far gone from the churches described in the NT.

Contrast the opulence of the papacy and Roman Catholicism in general, as well as the decadence of some infidel popes in history, with Jesus Christ of which Scripture states:

Luke 9:58. And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

The opulence of the papacy puts makes some of the TV preachers look like paupers!

 

[lakeside]

The heretics and ignorant dragged Jesus through the mud, now those same people are dragging His Church through the mud.

 

[Eliyahu]

The heretics and ignorant dragged Jesus through the mud, now those same people are dragging His Church through the mud.

They are the Roman Catholic Church and the true churches are Baptists, Brethren, Messianic, Wesleyan, Church of God, etc.

Eliyahu