Why the SBC is no longer traditional Baptist

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Do you understand what "The SBC" is and how it actually works?

You guys basically told me it doesn’t work.

 

[church mouse guy]

You guys basically told me it doesn’t work.

The SBC are mountain climbing people. At the moment they have a strange President just as the RCC has a strange Pope. I think that the SBC will trust God and end this pause and get back to climbing up the rough side of the mountain. No one can walk unless Jesus holds his hand. Someone told Chuck Smith that Jesus was just his crutch to which he agreed and said that he himself would be a stretcher case without Jesus.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The SBC are mountain climbing people. At the moment they have a strange President just as the RCC has a strange Pope. I think that the SBC will trust God and end this pause and get back to climbing up the rough side of the mountain. No one can walk unless Jesus holds his hand. Someone told Chuck Smith that Jesus was just his crutch to which he agreed and said that he himself would be a stretcher case without Jesus.

I came from the RCC... all the brain washing, the dominating, the soliciting of money, the abuse, the rituals etc were enough for me thank you. I will never again expose my family and myself to that again... nor expose myself to worldly churches that are at war like the Hatfield and McCoy’s. Nope!

God has, in so many ways, given my family new lives and we are going to live it. To quote my wife recently as she joyfully runs throughout the house, “praise God from whom all blessings flow.”

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There are reasons I'm not a Primitive Baptist, but I'm glad you have a church in which you can serve others and they can care for you.

Blessings,

The Archangel

Got to be the foot washing right.

 

[church mouse guy]

I came from the RCC... all the brain washing, the dominating, the soliciting of money, the abuse, the rituals etc were enough for me thank you. I will never again expose my family and myself to that again... nor expose myself to worldly churches that are at war like the Hatfield and McCoy’s. Nope!

God has, in so many ways, given my family new lives and we are going to live it. To quote my wife recently as she joyfully runs throughout the house, “praise God from whom all blessings flow.”

I heard a Catholic theologian, perhaps Dr. Taylor Marshall on YouTube, say that the Virgin Mary was sinless. The Latin mass Catholics are among those trying to clean up things even to the extent of asking the DOJ to wield RICO laws against the American RCC, but they are strong on the rosary and praying to Mary and the saints. What are they thinking?

 

[Reynolds]

You guys basically told me it doesn’t work.

No. At times it has its problems.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No. At times it has its problems.

So why go there, why tolerate them?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I heard a Catholic theologian, perhaps Dr. Taylor Marshall on YouTube, say that the Virgin Mary was sinless. The Latin mass Catholics are among those trying to clean up things even to the extent of asking the DOJ to wield RICO laws against the American RCC, but they are strong on the rosary and praying to Mary and the saints. What are they thinking?

You obviously were not raised Catholic. Grandma was so in love with JFK that she went to the train station in Scranton to meet him but I know she would never accept Biden (the son of Scranton). Biden would not be considered a Roman Catholic do to his stance on abortion. She would have probably vote for Trump ( after writing him a letter telling him what a dirt bag he is)

 

[Reynolds]

So why go there, why tolerate them?

The SBC does not tell my church what to do. We belong because of the Cooperative Missions program which is excellent.

 

[Reynolds]

You obviously were not raised Catholic. Grandma was so in love with JFK that she went to the train station in Scranton to meet him but I know she would never accept Biden (the son of Scranton). Biden would not be considered a Roman Catholic do to his stance on abortion. She would have probably vote for Trump ( after writing him a letter telling him what a dirt bag he is)

If she loved Kennedy, she should have no problem with Trump. Kennedy was the biggest dirt bag of all.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If she loved Kennedy, she should have no problem with Trump. Kennedy was the biggest dirt bag of all.

Trump is not a RC and that makes all the difference.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The SBC does not tell my church what to do. We belong because of the Cooperative Missions program which is excellent.

I on the other hand have 0 interest in them.

 

[Reynolds]

I on the other hand have 0 interest in them.

We SBCers won't lose any sleep over not having your interest or your seal of approval.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We SBCers won't lose any sleep over not having your interest or your seal of approval.

Ask me if I care

 

[rlvaughn]

I posted the following two articles in another thread. I thought the topic important enough to start a new thread on it.

An Analysis of the Baptist Faith and Message 2000

Baptist Freedom and Conscience Series: An Unconscionable Confession

Bruce Prescott, from the second link, circa 2001:

Historically, Baptists have insisted that every believer is competent to interpret the scriptures according to the dictates of a conscience that is guided by the Holy Spirit. Under the traditional understanding of "soul competency," each soul is directly accountable to God for his/her beliefs and actions.

The 2000 BF&M redefines "soul competency." It makes every soul accountable to the church for his/her beliefs and actions. Southern Baptists are now "accountable to each other under the word of God." (Preamble, 2000 BF&M) Rather than reading and interpreting scripture for themselves, twenty-first century Southern Baptists will be holding each other accountable for adhering to the official interpretations of scripture that have been codified in the 2000 BF&M.

Morgan Edwards, from Customs of Primitive Churches (1768):
1. A covenant is the formal cause of a church: so that without a covenant, expressed or implied, a visible church there cannot be. Nor is there any other way in which a number of persons who are not a church may become such, but by entering into covenant one with the other to the Lord. The first christian church was formed out of the house of Judah in Jerusalem; the next was out of the house of Israel in Samaria. And all the gentile churches were built on the same plan, 1 Thes. ii. 14. And the constitutive cause was a new covenant. Behold the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah:- I will be to them a God and they shall be to me a people. Heb. viii. 8-12.
2. This covenant or confederation bears a four-fold aspect. First, it hath respect to the Lord Christ; and then the meaning is, “We do engage henceforth to be the Lords people,” which is fulfilling this branch of the new covenant in Heb. viii. 10. They shall be to me a people; and an assumption of this overture, on Gods part, “Be ye separate and I will receive you, and will be to you a God.” They gave their own selves to the Lord. 2 Cor. viii. 5. Know ye not that ye are not your own, but God’s? 1 Cor. vi. 19, 20. That with purpose of heart they would cleave to the Lord, Act. xi. 23. Come out from among them and be ye separate—and I will receive you and will be to you a God and ye shall be to me a people, 2 Cor. vi. 16, 17. Heb. viii. 8-12
3. Next, it has a mutual respect to all the particular persons concerned in it. And then the meaning is, “We agree to be a church, viz. to coalesce into one body and cleave together, so at to be no longer our own, but the property one of another, and subject one to another, in the Lord.” Receive ye one another, Rom. xv. 7. Yea all of you be subject one to another, 1 Pet. v. 5. Onesimus—who is one of you—Epaphras, who is one of you, Col. iv. 9, 12. We being many are one body and everyone members one of another, Rom. xii. 5. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular, 1 Cor. xii. 12, 27. The whole body fitly joined together and compacted, Col. ii. 19. Eph. ii. 20, 21.
4. It hath respect to all the commandments of Christ; and then the meaning is, “all that the Lord hath said that will we do and be obedient;” which is a closure with an overture. If ye do all things whatsoever I have commanded you lo I am with you always. Math. xxviii. 20.
5. It hath respect to the officers of the church; then the meaning is, “we will know, obey, and submit to them that have the rule over us, and speak to us the word of God,” Heb xiii 7, 17. They gave their own selves to us according to the will of God. 2 Cor. viii. 5.These people are as they that strive with the priest. Hos. iv. 4.

 

[church mouse guy]

Bruce Prescott, from the second link, circa 2001:

Morgan Edwards, from Customs of Primitive Churches (1768):
1. A covenant is the formal cause of a church: so that without a covenant, expressed or implied, a visible church there cannot be. Nor is there any other way in which a number of persons who are not a church may become such, but by entering into covenant one with the other to the Lord. The first christian church was formed out of the house of Judah in Jerusalem; the next was out of the house of Israel in Samaria. And all the gentile churches were built on the same plan, 1 Thes. ii. 14. And the constitutive cause was a new covenant. Behold the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah:- I will be to them a God and they shall be to me a people. Heb. viii. 8-12.
2. This covenant or confederation bears a four-fold aspect. First, it hath respect to the Lord Christ; and then the meaning is, “We do engage henceforth to be the Lords people,” which is fulfilling this branch of the new covenant in Heb. viii. 10. They shall be to me a people; and an assumption of this overture, on Gods part, “Be ye separate and I will receive you, and will be to you a God.” They gave their own selves to the Lord. 2 Cor. viii. 5. Know ye not that ye are not your own, but God’s? 1 Cor. vi. 19, 20. That with purpose of heart they would cleave to the Lord, Act. xi. 23. Come out from among them and be ye separate—and I will receive you and will be to you a God and ye shall be to me a people, 2 Cor. vi. 16, 17. Heb. viii. 8-12
3. Next, it has a mutual respect to all the particular persons concerned in it. And then the meaning is, “We agree to be a church, viz. to coalesce into one body and cleave together, so at to be no longer our own, but the property one of another, and subject one to another, in the Lord.” Receive ye one another, Rom. xv. 7. Yea all of you be subject one to another, 1 Pet. v. 5. Onesimus—who is one of you—Epaphras, who is one of you, Col. iv. 9, 12. We being many are one body and everyone members one of another, Rom. xii. 5. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular, 1 Cor. xii. 12, 27. The whole body fitly joined together and compacted, Col. ii. 19. Eph. ii. 20, 21.
4. It hath respect to all the commandments of Christ; and then the meaning is, “all that the Lord hath said that will we do and be obedient;” which is a closure with an overture. If ye do all things whatsoever I have commanded you lo I am with you always. Math. xxviii. 20.
5. It hath respect to the officers of the church; then the meaning is, “we will know, obey, and submit to them that have the rule over us, and speak to us the word of God,” Heb xiii 7, 17. They gave their own selves to us according to the will of God. 2 Cor. viii. 5.These people are as they that strive with the priest. Hos. iv. 4.

I knew of this doctrine but did not know about it or its correct name. Thank you for posting this. I read of it as individual competency and read that it was an SBC distinctive. I read that God gave everyone the ability decide belief in Jesus and I believe that. I did not realize that 2000 undid that.

This not good. I tried to post on this a few years ago and no one knew what I writing about.

Thanks again.

 

[rlvaughn]

I read that God gave everyone the ability decide belief in Jesus and I believe that. I did not realize that 2000 undid that.

You're welcome, but that is Bruce Prescott's opinion, not mine. According to the BFM 2000 page at SBC.net, the 2000 committee stated:

"Baptists cherish and defend religious liberty, and deny the right of any secular or religious authority to impose a confession of faith upon a church or body of churches. We honor the principles of soul competency and the priesthood of believers, affirming together both our liberty in Christ and our accountability to each other under the Word of God."

Article XVII on Religious Liberty states:

God alone is Lord of the conscience, and He has left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men which are contrary to His Word or not contained in it. Church and state should be separate. The state owes to every church protection and full freedom in the pursuit of its spiritual ends. In providing for such freedom no ecclesiastical group or denomination should be favored by the state more than others. Civil government being ordained of God, it is the duty of Christians to render loyal obedience thereto in all things not contrary to the revealed will of God. The church should not resort to the civil power to carry on its work. The gospel of Christ contemplates spiritual means alone for the pursuit of its ends. The state has no right to impose penalties for religious opinions of any kind. The state has no right to impose taxes for the support of any form of religion. A free church in a free state is the Christian ideal, and this implies the right of free and unhindered access to God on the part of all men, and the right to form and propagate opinions in the sphere of religion without interference by the civil power.

I am not SBC, so the BFM is not my statement. But I don't think it undoes individual competency.

I posted the clip of Prescott's statement in contrast to the much older statement of Morgan Edwards, long-time clerk of the Philadelphia Baptist Association. Edwards's statement shows, I believe, that individual accountability and accountability to other believers are not mutually exclusive, and that accountability to believers in church context is not some newfangled doctrine.

 

[church mouse guy]

You're welcome, but that is Bruce Prescott's opinion, not mine. According to the BFM 2000 page at SBC.net, the 2000 committee stated:

Article XVII on Religious Liberty states:
I am not SBC, so the BFM is not my statement. But I don't think it undoes individual competency.

I posted the clip of Prescott's statement in contrast to the much older statement of Morgan Edwards, long-time clerk of the Philadelphia Baptist Association. Edwards's statement shows, I believe, that individual accountability and accountability to other believers are not mutually exclusive, and that accountability to believers in church context is not some newfangled doctrine.

Okay, thanks again. I agree with you. I heard of the doctrine in a book about evangelism published about 1998 or so. I thought that it was called individual competence and posted a thread of that title wherein no one knew what I was talking about. From your post, it would be more correct to say that it is a Baptist distinctive, right? And would the correct name of the doctrine be soul competence?

I really appreciate your straightening me out on this doctrine.

 

[agedman]

The SBC does not tell my church what to do. We belong because of the Cooperative Missions program which is excellent.

Back in the early 70’s, I had to withdraw from contributing to the cooperative program. It is a long, ugly story, no longer worthy of telling. But the mistrust of the program still lingers in me to this day.

So, although I am SB I do not contribute to the cooperative program.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Back in the early 70’s, I had to withdraw from contributing to the cooperative program. It is a long, ugly story, no longer worthy of telling. But the mistrust of the program still lingers in me to this day.

So, although I am SB I do not contribute to the cooperative program.

So what’s the attraction