Why the vitriol?

Brother Bob · Apr 28, 2006

Are you seriously suggesting, Brother Bob, that if the thief had only believed these things, but never said a word he would not have been saved? What about mute persons? Can they be saved in your view?

You have absolutely no Scripture to suggest that saying those words is what saved the thief. It is not a formula of words that saves us but faith. This is what the Reformation was all about - Justification by faith alone. Are you, with one copy and paste ready to take us back to Rome?

He seeks such to worship Him in Spirit and in truth and the Spirit utters words:

Romans, chapter 8
"26": Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
(Being a mute has nothing at all to do with salvation.)

You cannot prove nor do you have Scriptures that the man was already saved before he asked Jesus to "remember me". This is one you can't run to Romans or anywhere else but will just have to take it. I am not making this in bold to be rude but to make a point, ok? If it is offending you please let me know.

doulous · Apr 28, 2006

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Are you seriously suggesting, Brother Bob, that if the thief had only believed these things, but never said a word he would not have been saved? What about mute persons? Can they be saved in your view?

You have absolutely no Scripture to suggest that saying those words is what saved the thief. It is not a formula of words that saves us but faith. This is what the Reformation was all about - Justification by faith alone. Are you, with one copy and paste ready to take us back to Rome?

He seeks such to worship Him in Spirit and in truth and the Spirit utters words:

Romans, chapter 8
"26": Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
(Being a mute has nothing at all to do with salvation.)

You cannot prove nor do you have Scriptures that the man was already saved before he asked Jesus to "remember me". This is one you can't run to Romans or anywhere else but will just have to take it. I am not making this in bold to be rude but to make a point, ok? If it is offending you please let me know. [/QUOTE]Brother Bob, when do you believe the thief on the cross came to faith in Christ?

Brother Bob · Apr 28, 2006

Doulous;
What else would I believe. Of course he had to have faith to come to Christ for without faith you cannot please God. You think if the thief had not of pleased the Lord He would of said "this day thou shalt be with me in paradise".
Do you join those that say the thief was saved before he came to the cross or before he cried out to the Lord "remember me"?

npetreley · Apr 28, 2006

Originally posted by JackRUS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by saturneptune:
npet,
While not being able to speak for Genesis, maybe he would like to see a debate or discussion of a subject that makes a difference or is important.

Personally I would like to see a Calvinist here debate some theological point here for more two posts without turning it into a Calvinistic debate. Or even, I must be joking to even suggest this, start a thread that has nothing to do with any of the five points of Calvinism. [/QUOTE]Pay attention. Threads I started that have nothing to do with Calvinism:

The 10-40 window
Because of the Angels
The Purpose Driven Life
How can salt lose its saltiness?

Some (not all) of these ended up including comments about election vs. free will, but that's not how I started them.

doulous · Apr 28, 2006

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Doulous;
What else would I believe. Of course he had to have faith to come to Christ for without faith you cannot please God. You think if the thief had not of pleased the Lord He would of said "this day thou shalt be with me in paradise".
Do you join those that say the thief was saved before he came to the cross or before he cried out to the Lord "remember me"?

Brother Bob, well...as a strong believer in the doctrine of election I believe God preordained the thief on the cross to come to faith. But I do not agree with some of my more ardent Presbyterian brethren who would say the thief was always saved because he was elect. The elect will come to faith in Christ, but not until they they repent and place their faith in Christ. This is why I agree with Romans 10:9,10 and John 3:16.

Andy T. · Apr 28, 2006

Originally posted by doulous:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Doulous;
What else would I believe. Of course he had to have faith to come to Christ for without faith you cannot please God. You think if the thief had not of pleased the Lord He would of said "this day thou shalt be with me in paradise".
Do you join those that say the thief was saved before he came to the cross or before he cried out to the Lord "remember me"?

Brother Bob, well...as a strong believer in the doctrine of election I believe God preordained the thief on the cross to come to faith. But I do not agree with some of my more ardent Presbyterian brethren who would say the thief was always saved because he was elect. The elect will come to faith in Christ, but not until they they repent and place their faith in Christ. This is why I agree with Romans 10:9,10 and John 3:16. [/QUOTE]Do Presby's really believe that? Not the ones I know.

doulous · Apr 28, 2006

Originally posted by Andy T.:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by doulous:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Doulous;
What else would I believe. Of course he had to have faith to come to Christ for without faith you cannot please God. You think if the thief had not of pleased the Lord He would of said "this day thou shalt be with me in paradise".
Do you join those that say the thief was saved before he came to the cross or before he cried out to the Lord "remember me"?

Brother Bob, well...as a strong believer in the doctrine of election I believe God preordained the thief on the cross to come to faith. But I do not agree with some of my more ardent Presbyterian brethren who would say the thief was always saved because he was elect. The elect will come to faith in Christ, but not until they they repent and place their faith in Christ. This is why I agree with Romans 10:9,10 and John 3:16. [/QUOTE]Do Presby's really believe that? Not the ones I know. [/QUOTE]I should have said "some Presbyterians." Sorry.

npetreley · Apr 28, 2006

Originally posted by doulous:
I should have said "some Presbyterians." Sorry.

I find that, just like many other denominations, Presbys are all over the map. Unless you've read the mission statement or know a church's affiliation, you can walk into one Presbyterian church and they're teaching sound doctrine, walk into another, and they're teaching hypercalvinism, and walk into a third, and the preacher is a lesbian teaching who knows what.

(Okay, I have no real evidence that this third example is true, but I thought I'd include it for fun, considering some of the controversies.)

Brother Bob · Apr 28, 2006

Cutting kinda close there wasn't he fellows.

Good ole elect answer for everything.

Brother Bob · Apr 28, 2006

I am amazed that here was the "elect" hanging on a cross for stealing and who knows what and just by the skim of his teeth the Lord grabbed him. Man we never know who we walking around with, do we?

jeepers how convenient. Here we are spending our lives trying to convince the world to repent and all the time the Lord will grab them at the last second.

whatever · Apr 28, 2006

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
I am amazed that here was the "elect" hanging on a cross for stealing and who knows what and just by the skim of his teeth the Lord grabbed him. Man we never know who we walking around with, do we? jeepers how convenient. Here we are spending our lives trying to convince the world to repent and all the time the Lord will grab them at the last second.

Matt. 20:1-16 made some folks mad too.

Brother Bob · Apr 28, 2006

At least they did labor, would you call that works?

whatever · Apr 28, 2006

I think you missed the point.

npetreley · Apr 28, 2006

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
I am amazed that here was the "elect" hanging on a cross for stealing and who knows what

The gravity of his sins is significant, how?

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
and just by the skim of his teeth the Lord grabbed him.

And you know this how? Do you have some extra-biblical knowledge of the moment this man was saved?

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Man we never know who we walking around with, do we? jeepers how convenient. Here we are spending our lives trying to convince the world to repent and all the time the Lord will grab them at the last second.

I know. We spend so much energy evangelizing, and then the Lord Jesus goes off and saves someone without our help, and without so much as a "by your leave". Dang, I hate it when He does that. How dare He?

Brother Bob · Apr 28, 2006

Sure hope you are not wrong and the Lord predestinated you to believe you are saved when in fact you are not. Sure would be a shame after all the bragging you have done on here. BTW some of you are the ones who said he was saved while hanging on the cross and some of you said before the cross and some I don't know what they were saying to be honest but sure hope the Lord don't get Glory out of you when He tells you He was just kidding. You talk about extrabibical knowledge when you are the ones saying He was saved when he said we rightly receive our just reward without any bibical proof whatsoever. Also, you never have given an answer for the non-baptism.

No Whatever, I didn't miss the point there was just another point there you missed.

[ April 28, 2006, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

JackRUS · Apr 28, 2006

Originally posted by npetreley:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JackRUS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by saturneptune:
npet,
While not being able to speak for Genesis, maybe he would like to see a debate or discussion of a subject that makes a difference or is important.

Personally I would like to see a Calvinist here debate some theological point here for more two posts without turning it into a Calvinistic debate. Or even, I must be joking to even suggest this, start a thread that has nothing to do with any of the five points of Calvinism. [/QUOTE]Pay attention. Threads I started that have nothing to do with Calvinism:

The 10-40 window
Because of the Angels
The Purpose Driven Life
How can salt lose its saltiness?

Some (not all) of these ended up including comments about election vs. free will, but that's not how I started them. [/QUOTE]I am paying attention, and I suggest that you do as well. I was merely going over the active threads on this board under "Baptist Theology & Bible Study."

So far since last night, one new Calvinist thread started by a Calvinist, and one border-line Calvinist thread started by a Calvinist. Stay tuned.

Brother Bob · Apr 28, 2006

I decided some time ago they should name this board The Calvinist Baptist Board.

doulous · Apr 28, 2006

Originally posted by JackRUS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by npetreley:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JackRUS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by saturneptune:
npet,
While not being able to speak for Genesis, maybe he would like to see a debate or discussion of a subject that makes a difference or is important.

Personally I would like to see a Calvinist here debate some theological point here for more two posts without turning it into a Calvinistic debate. Or even, I must be joking to even suggest this, start a thread that has nothing to do with any of the five points of Calvinism. [/QUOTE]Pay attention. Threads I started that have nothing to do with Calvinism:

The 10-40 window
Because of the Angels
The Purpose Driven Life
How can salt lose its saltiness?

Some (not all) of these ended up including comments about election vs. free will, but that's not how I started them. [/QUOTE]I am paying attention, and I suggest that you do as well. I was merely going over the active threads on this board under "Baptist Theology & Bible Study."

So far since last night, one new Calvinist thread started by a Calvinist, and one border-line Calvinist thread started by a Calvinist. Stay tuned. [/QUOTE]I'll be starting another one too! If you go to my blog you can sign up for automatic email alerts whenever I start a Calvinist thread.

npetreley · Apr 28, 2006

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Sure hope you are not wrong and the Lord predestinated you to believe you are saved when in fact you are not.

Me too. I trust in the Lord Jesus and not my own ability to decide one way or another. But if I'm deceived and I'm not saved and spend eternity in hell, then so be it. God can and will do whatever He wants with me according to His own good pleasure. He is, after all, God.

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
BTW some of you are the ones who said he was saved while hanging on the cross and some of you said before the cross and some I don't know what they were saying to be honest but sure hope the Lord don't get Glory out of you when He tells you He was just kidding.

The Bible doesn't say whether he was saved on the cross, or beforehand. Therefore my answer as to whether or not he was saved on the cross would have to be "I don't know".

As for your question about baptism, again, I don't know. He may have been baptized 6 months before he was on the cross, for all I know. He may never have been baptized. You will probably quote the verse that makes baptism a requirement. However, if God wants to make an exception, what is that to you? It is certainly nothing to me. He doesn't need to check with me first before He does anything. He is, after all, God.

Brother Bob · Apr 28, 2006

No, nepet;
I am one who says he made the exception. Some were saying that they must be bapized and water was where the salvation is.
I certainly hope you are one of them too nept. I don't wish you no ill will at all, may God be with you.
Bob

Why the vitriol?

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