Originally posted by Scott J:
Unless you are an open theist then you must agree that when God calls someone that will respond He does so for a different reason than when He "calls" someone who will reject.
The "Call" is "equal to all", "JUSTICE" demand it.
I'd suggest you learn a little about "law/Justice", Judgment day is Judgment "according to law".
The "righteousness" is of God. The goodness to have faith DOES NOT come from YOU. The immediate context provided by verses 11-21 argues clearly that man is not good and does not seek God.
Again, calvin's doctrine is "refuted" by the natural things we see in life, which is the best evidents it's "false".
Mt 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up:
what lack I yet?
This young man wasn't save, yet was "seeking God", as do many others today.
Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found,
Cross reference to Ephesians 1 and 2:8-9. We are saved BY grace and THROUGH faith- not by faith through grace.
I "think" I "see" why you've got everything "backwards".
The definition you use for "willing" when arguing against Calvinism is no less harmful to your position. If God "wills" that none perish in the sense you argue then either God is not omnipotent or universalism is true.
You left out an "option", You being "WRONG".
Did you go to the Bill Clinton school of word twisting and evasion?
When "not willing for any" becomes "willing for some", you could qualify as a "Professor" at "Clintons school".
God knew that sin would occur before He created man and gave him a choice... yes, a real choice. God permitted it.
choice isn't "permitted" under "Total soveriegnty", which is it???
What we disagree on is what the root cause for salvation is. I say it is God's grace and goodness. You say it is man's free will and goodness.
Have you ever read the parable of the "Sower", the seed that grew, where did it land, "Good Ground"??
Would you like to guess what the "Body" is made from???
There's an understanding of scripture that goes beyond the "words on the paper".
God's plan of redemption preceeds Adam's "choice". God planned it from the start. He allowed man's sin which He most certainly could have prevented so that His plan would be accomplished.
Again, you're "tripping" over the difference in "Foreknowledge" and "Predestine".
Your argument is vanity. Just like the absurd argument that says that God is guilty of sin because He put the tree in the garden knowing would be tempted and fail.
No, that's what Calvin is saying with "total sovereignty" and "predestination".
"FAITH" is not "goodness", Faith leads "TO" God's Salvation/Grace.
Nope. Grace uses faith as its vehicle. You need to re-read Ephesians 2:8-9.
Ga 3:6 Even as Abraham believed (faith) God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. (saved)
You've got "A LOT" to learn about scripture.
God isn't "Obligated" to save any, but under "LAW/JUSTICE", equal opportunity must be offer to "ALL".
That is you imposing your bias upon God. You have placed an "obligation" by your own fiat- without scriptural basis. By law/justice, God shouldn't save any.
Exactly, but if he offers salvation to "ONE", then he's "obligated" to offer it to "ALL", which he did, Jesus didn't come to condemn the world but to save it, and died for the sins of the "Whole world".
This notion of equal opportunity you have is beyond ridiculous.
Yes, the Bible does teach a different doctrine than the books men write about it.
BTW, you still haven't given a simple, direct answer to the question I asked... though this post comes dangerously close to a "yes, man can thwart God's perfect will" answer.
God's "perfect will" was to have this a "perfect world", did man "THWART" that "will"???
