23 theft related (not all in someone's home) in the latest year for which we have stats. Source: Homicide - Office for National Statistics. That's less than the death toll at Sandy Hook (just one school shooting)
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- Thread starter Matt Black
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I agree. But that doesn't mean we should just sit on our hands and do nothing, as some are advocating here
Yes it is a little strange the way we treat our airport security versus our children's schools.
Strange also that some advocate an 18th century solution to a 21st century problem whilst treating it as a sacred cow on the way.
We already have security scanners in some schools in the inner city in particular...but they are aimed at knife crime which is a problem in some quarters here.
We already have security scanners in some schools in the inner city in particular...but they are aimed at knife crime which is a problem in some quarters here.
The good guys are the ones motivated to protect innocent lives. You can figure out the others for yourself.
If by "sacred cow" you mean the Bill of Rights you are 100% correct - it is indeed sacred to us.
Yes, well evil will find a way guns, knives, lorries, pressure cookers, shoes, underwear, etc, etc...
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
Yes, it's astounding. When I go into a school, government building, post office, or hospital, I lawfully leave my weapon in my vehicle while they have this sign on the door, announcing to the world, which in effect says; "notice robbers and mass murderers: we're unarmed here". It can't get any more stupid.
One of the points that emerged from.the Vegas shooting is that, whilst several in the crowd were armed, they were afraid to shoot at the perpetrator lest they be thought by the police to be the perps themselves: the words "you can tell the good guys with a gun from the bad guys with a gun" trip lightly and easily from the keyboard but aren't quite so simply applied in real-life situations
That's ridiculous. Cite?
Identifying a target a block away and 32 stories up at night is going to be very difficult. Engaging that target with a handgun is going to be just about impossible, and with a great likelihood that you may injure an innocent in the process.
Who has advocated doing nothing? Please post a quote. Most of us have advocated either allowing staff to be armed or posting armed professionals in the schools. Some have advocated closed campuses with metal detectors at the entrance.
So, who advocated doing nothing. Quote please.
Matt seems unaware (along with just about everything else) that one of the primary rules of gun safety is "Identify Your Target."
One Baptism
Active Member
A "muslim" is indeed a person, a brother/sister in man-kind, however, they are a follower of the way, which is "Islam" [Qur'an, aHadith, even the Sunnah], which is the deadly deceitful ideology. It teaches to literally slay [or help to pay to slay, through "Zakat"] "infidels" [Jews, Christians, polytheists, atheists, etc] wherever they are found, if they will not revert or pay "Jizyah".
Al Tawbah or Bara'ah 9:5 (al-Hilali-Khan translation) -
"... Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (See V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [1] ..."
Al Tawbah or Bara'ah 9:5 al-Hilali-Khan translation notes -
Al Tawbah or Bara'ah 9:5 al-Hilali-Khan translation notes -
"... [1] a) (V.9:5) See the footnote of (V.2:193).
b) Narrated Abu Hurairah: When the Prophet died and Abu Bakr became his successor and some of the Arabs reverted to disbelief, 'Umar said, "O Abu Bakr! HOw can you fight these people although Allah's Messenger said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: La ilaha illallah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), and whoever said La ilaha illallah will save his property and his life from me, unless (he does something for which he receives legal punishment) justly, and his account will be on Allah?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah! I will fight whoever differentiates between Salat (prayers) and Zakat, as Zakat is the right to be taken from property (according to Allah's orders). By Allah! If they refused to pay me even a kid they used to pay to Allah's Messenger, I would fight with them for withholding it," Umar said, "By Allah! It was nothing, but I noticed that Allah opened Abu Bakr's chest towards the decision to fight, therefore I realized that his decision was right." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Hadith Number 59) ..."
b) Narrated Abu Hurairah: When the Prophet died and Abu Bakr became his successor and some of the Arabs reverted to disbelief, 'Umar said, "O Abu Bakr! HOw can you fight these people although Allah's Messenger said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: La ilaha illallah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), and whoever said La ilaha illallah will save his property and his life from me, unless (he does something for which he receives legal punishment) justly, and his account will be on Allah?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah! I will fight whoever differentiates between Salat (prayers) and Zakat, as Zakat is the right to be taken from property (according to Allah's orders). By Allah! If they refused to pay me even a kid they used to pay to Allah's Messenger, I would fight with them for withholding it," Umar said, "By Allah! It was nothing, but I noticed that Allah opened Abu Bakr's chest towards the decision to fight, therefore I realized that his decision was right." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Hadith Number 59) ..."
Al Tawbah or Bara'ah 9:29 (al-Hilali-Khan translation) -
“... Fight those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. ...”
Al Fatiha 1:6-7 (al-Hilali-Khan translation) -
“... [v.6] Guide us to the Straight Way.[3] [v.7] The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace[4], not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger[5] (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).[1],[2],[3]. …"
Al Fatiha 1:6-7 al-Hilali-Khan translation notes -
“... [5] Narrated 'Adi bin Hatim: I asked Allah's Messenger about the Statement of Allah: 1. “Gharil maghdubi 'alaihim (not the way of those who earned Your Anger),” he replied “They are the Jews”. And 2. “Walad dalin (nor of those who went astray),” he replied: “The Christians, and they are the ones who went astray.” [This Hadith is quoted by At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud]. ...”
Islam is not merely a religion, it is a state [political]/religious entity. To accept a Muslim into leadership position, is to automatically accept Sharia [Islamic Law] over and above any Constitution, or rule of law. They see Sharia as coming from Allah, and therefore, practice it, and attempt to enforece it upon all, as they see it being the best way to live in life. This ideology always takes precendence over any oath to any country or document or rule of law therein in which an Islamicist resides.Al Fatiha 1:6-7 al-Hilali-Khan translation notes -
“... [5] Narrated 'Adi bin Hatim: I asked Allah's Messenger about the Statement of Allah: 1. “Gharil maghdubi 'alaihim (not the way of those who earned Your Anger),” he replied “They are the Jews”. And 2. “Walad dalin (nor of those who went astray),” he replied: “The Christians, and they are the ones who went astray.” [This Hadith is quoted by At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud]. ...”
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Not ridiculous. Citation as requested:
Why the Las Vegas Shooting Was a Security Agency’s Nightmare
And here's a good account: Follow the latest developments from the Las Vegas shooting live
One Baptism
Active Member
Public schools [governmental run] should be abandoned, for if you look at the origins, and who it was that help to place the system into place, and their agendas, it would shock many. It will save everyone a lot of money, trouble, and error. The public school system is not found in scripture, but is a philosophy that stems from the pagan Greek system of the "Leopard".
The homeschool is the model presented in scripture. Jesus, Himself, began it with the edenic garden homeschool for his children, Adam and Eve, which was a branch of the Heavenly school, transplanted to earth.
With homeschools, you eliminate a lot of the issues from the root. With the Bible [KJB] as the text book, along with nature, these are the primary lessons books, while others such as sanctified church history as a third, among a few other minor things.
Evolutionism would be eliminated, joblessness and indolence would be mainly eliminated [for the children would again be taught how to labour in the home, in the garden, in the field, etc], and the false science, the 'sci-fi' that is taught in public schools would be weeded out, and society would be brought back to godliness, prayer, humiltiy, love for one another, with integrity, where the elder is honoured, the parent honoured. The death penalty [a governmental regulation], the wages for sin [within the bounds of mankind-to mankind [theft, murder, adultery, etc], never mankind to God [ie. no law establishing religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof], would be brought back as the final court of appeal, as it was instituted in Eden, and would place a godly fear back into men and women.
It would place the education of the children back into the hands of the parents who helped to bring them into the world. It would give responsibility back, and dignity back.
Think about a child who goes to a public school [as I used to, for my whole life], for 8 to 10 hours depending, for most of the days of the week, and they barely have respect for the teacher/s [these person/s whom they were thrust upon to learn from, all manner of wickedness and vice and false thoughts about who YHVH, JEHOVAH, God is], and then go back to the parent for a few hours before the cycle starts all over, where is the respect for anyone, why put faith in any authority is the mindset of those tossed between people in such a system. Some may even place more respect for their surrogate 'teachers' than for their parents, which is a reversal of the commandment of God.
Check out Scott Ritsema, on "Schooled", "Undoctrinated", "Raising the Remnant", etc - Media
Scott Ritsema - Undoctrinated (English) - YouTube
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Thanks for proving Rob correct and you wrong. From the very article you quoted as your "cite."
"A third lesson: It would have been incredibly difficult for any bystander, or even local law enforcement personnel on the ground, to return fire and stop Paddock during his attack."
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
Matt,
Would you agree that these "several in the crowd" who were 'armed" would have most likely only carried pistols? Sir, according to what I read, the shooter was over 1000 feet (304.8 meters) from the crowd. The relatively low velocity of pistol rounds, coupled with short barrels, makes one practically ineffective at that distance. You would most likely hit an innocent person than the perpetrator so discharging a handgun would be reckless at best.. Only a rifle or something like a shotgun slug would have worked at that distance and nobody walks around with one of those stuck down in his waistband.
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Agreed. So what?
supersoldier71
Active Member
Your mastery of correct terminology equally so.
Where in either of those articles does one of the concertgoers say they were afraid to use their weapon because they feared being misidentified as the shooter?
That's the quote I was asking to be cited. And I see no quotes from concertgoers in those articles. Only opinion, and a very biased opinion judging from the Slate article's title.
Your words: "One of the points that emerged from.the Vegas shooting is that, whilst several in the crowd were armed, they were afraid to shoot at the perpetrator lest they be thought by the police to be the perps themselves:"
s
Sorry, this the other article I thought had loaded up:
'It was hysteria. People were trampled': panic as Las Vegas gunman opened fire
"I didn't want to be mistaken for a bad guy."
Either which way, the accounts give the lie to the myth that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
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