You are wrong here. While you may not like the vetting process all three have been vetted and one is FDA approved for 16+.
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Will vaccine division create party splits?
- Thread starter JonC
- Start date
No. It is exactly the same.
I understand that you believe contracting and dying if covid is minimal. I understand you worry about the negative effects and possible repricussions of the vaccines. I understand you do not consider the vaccines safe (at least safer than the virus).
I get that, and that is fair.
You need to understand other people have looked at the data and results of the vaccine along with the risks of covid. They have come to an opposite conclusion.
I would expect you, if you ran a business, to not implement a vacvine program based on your conclusions.
BUT the fact is those who have the authority to mandate vaccines for their employees - not you - are sitting in that chair.
The employer has the right to make conditions of employment.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to say based on data that the vaccine is safe. The data does not yet exist. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Not by normal standards. They pushed it through to give a false sense of safety.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
By the way, we know this is true, just listen to how the White House uses that fact to berate the unvaccinated.
No it isn't.
You say covid is safe enough to not even need a vaccine because we have a 98.7% of survival (vaccinated and unvacvinated) and the unvacvinated have about an 81% chance of survival should they contract covid (about a 2% chance of contracting covid).
But you have a 99.973% chance of no adverse effects with the vaccines.
The vaccine is not without risk (as the CDC points out) but it is much safer than the virus.
And by your own standard, .027% is so small it does mot matter.
But you have no evidence of this. Trump said the vaccines are safe because no corners were cut. He told us Operation Warp Speed cut red tape, not vaccine standards, and produced 3 vaccines that are safe for public use.
Apparently the longest part of vaccine production is the stages are one at a time - one stage is closed before another ends (often to do with financial issues). But Operation Warp Speed reduced a lot of time. Also, using mRNA technology (remember, ModeRNA technologies had already developed 24 vaccines) things did not have to move so slow.
Now, if Trump is such a liar then just don't vote for him. But I have no reason to question his conclusions. They seem logical to me.....especially considering the trials and the fact side-effects have fallen within expectations. Add to that the vaccines have already been around over a year.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
You clearly don't understand my point since you keep ignoring my point.
And you mine.
Let's see where we agree, first.
There is a very low chance of catching covid (about 2%).
The chance of surviving covid overall is 98.7% (a bit down from the initial 99.5%). For the vacvinated it is (based on current cases) over 99% and for the unvaccinated it is about 81%.
You indicated the chances of dying of covid was so small (2% chances of getting it, 98.7% chances of surviving [81% for unvacvinated, over 99% for vacvinated]) that a vaccine is not needed.
How then do you justify not having a vaccine for those who want it since the chances of adverse side-effects is .0027%?
How can you argue the vaccine is not safe (the CDC standard was in comparison to the effects of the virus) since the chances of an adverse effect is so small?
How can you argue that employers should lose the right to control employee criteria since allowing them to do so will effect only .0019% of the population?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I never said that.
I never said that it WAS NOT safe. I said we cannot yet know.
Where are you getting this number from? And what I am saying is employers should not control HEALTH choices. And no, respirators are not the same thing.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
So now the fatality rate has jumped from 21% to 29% for the unvaxed.
Please cite the source for covid having a 29% fatality rate.
peace to you
No. You said
The numbers are easy. In the US 75% are vaccinated. Take the number of federal & contract workers along with health care workers in facilities that accept federal funding (I included nursing homes....I think they take federal dollars.... and divide into the population of the US. This gives you the percent of the population. Take 25% of that to account for unvaccinated as these are the only ones affected.
My had. It should be 19% (the total survival rate being 98.7% which includes vaccinated persons. Vaccinated persons are 15.4x more likely to survive (1,540%). Separate the vacvinated percentage from the total percentage and the remainder would be the unvaccinated. I got a 81% survival rate but check the math.
Typo. Should be 19% (for some reason I took the 81% survival as 21% mortality the first time....dumb math. But the 29% was a typo).
And again, double check the math. It was on the fly as I was doing other things.
Total survival rate us 98.7% and the unvacvinated die at 15x the rate for vaccinated (vaccinated survival is higher than the total and unvaccinated is lower).
On the bright side....the unvaccinated have a 0% chance of adverse effects from the vaccine and the vaccinated had a .0027% chance. So the unvaxed have that going for them.
Note - I was wrong about the numbers (for survival rate). I miscalculated but was corrected by a calculator much better equipped at math than I.
The current survival rate is 98.7% (vaccinated and unvacvinated). Currenty vaccinated are surviving at 15x the unvacvinated rate.
That would mean the vacvinated have about a 99.7% survival rate and the unvaccinated about a 93% chance to make it. (Death rate would be about .46% for vacvinated, 7% for unvaccinated).
Sorry for my earlier numbers - I was wrong.
The current survival rate is 98.7% (vaccinated and unvacvinated). Currenty vaccinated are surviving at 15x the unvacvinated rate.
That would mean the vacvinated have about a 99.7% survival rate and the unvaccinated about a 93% chance to make it. (Death rate would be about .46% for vacvinated, 7% for unvaccinated).
Sorry for my earlier numbers - I was wrong.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the correction.
First, the total numbers include all deaths prior to the vaccine being available. We know those deaths were overwhelmingly elderly (about 85%?) with preexisting-existing conditions. They had about a 5% fatality rate which is close to your stats.
Second, the numbers do not measure the difference between unvaxed (never infected) and unvaxed (recovered from covid).
My understanding is that the unvaxed (recovered) and vaxed (never infected) both have very low hospitalization/fatality rates.
I have heard the fatality rate, though very low, is slightly higher for unvaxed (recovered) and vaxed.
Concerning unvaxed (never infected) the stats remain that survival rate for most is above 99%+., The only exception is elderly with pre-existing conditions. The fatality rate is very high at about 5%.
peace to you
I believe you are correct about the vaccinated never infected and the unvaccinated covid recovered.