Will You TOSS One Back over the Holidays?

[Luke2427]

preacher4truth, here is a young man obviously not of legal age to purchase alcohol. Obviously, he is not quite as versed as you are when it comes to the Word of God. Obviously, he relied upon and erred when it comes to the scripture he quoted. Specifically, that of referring to the sin of sexual misconduct applying it to the consumption of alcohol.

In your response it does appear that you're quite condescending and mocking his lack of knowledge. It would seem to me that any Preacher 4 Truth would rather assume a position of correcting a youth vice mocking him. No?

All any of us can do is lead a horse to water but..., So it is here. No need to be bullish about it and no, I'm not defending salzer mtn. I've just been there and done that.

Early in my Christian Life I was removed from driving a church bus for a nonsensical reason only to be replaced by a "better man". Turns out he sold Insurance and once he sold everyone in the church a policy, he quit and moved on. That was over 38 years ago and that insult against me still lingers.

As you know, the tongue is like a two-edged sword.

Well, I was pretty hard on the guy too and if he is very young or young in the faith, I'll apologize.

HOWEVER...

If a guy is going to get on a public forum like this and make a claim like he is speaking for God (which is what we do here- we are parsing the WORD OF GOD and claiming that what we say it is saying is WHAT GOD SAYS), then he better put his big boy pants on.

If he wants to come and ask questions and learn- WONDERFUL!

But if he is going to speak for God, he better suit up!

 

[salzer mtn]

I ask no apologies from hot heads that always come to the board with a bully attitude and if they do apologize to anyone it is because they have been taken to the wood shed or their trying to save face. Preachers get in the pulpits every Sunday and take the word of God and twist it to suit their doctrine, or don't put any emphasis on points they don't believe in. Everyone is guilty even the Calvinist.

 

[evenifigoalone]

There are different views on what scripture has to say on this topic, just as on just about any topic in existence. That's cool with me.
I mean I did find some of the posts talking directly to me a tad annoying if I want to be honest (in the same way I'd be annoyed if this thread was about the KJV and posters were telling me to not use any modern versions even though I don't ascribe to KJOism anymore as they might), but...it'd be kinda sad if I were to make an issue out of it.
The body is supposed to encourage and admonish one another, after all, although there are going to be things on what liberties should and should not be allowed.

 

[HAMel]

Well, I was pretty hard on the guy too and if he is very young or young in the faith, I'll apologize.

HOWEVER...

Luke2427, things were going good for you up and until..., "HOWEVER...."

It's hard to make a "Clean Break", ain't it? Makes me think of my days with the Department of the Navy.

...the putting on the Big Boy Pants? Wow! To me, that's a bit extreme. Tell me, when did you put on your Big Boy Pants?

"Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do." (Source: 1 Thessalonians 5:11)



salzer mtn, if you're wrong then you're wrong! End of subject. Admit it, learn from it and move on to bigger and better things.

 

[evenifigoalone]

There are different views on what scripture has to say on this topic, just as on just about any topic in existence. That's cool with me.
I mean I did find some of the posts talking directly to me a tad annoying if I want to be honest (in the same way I'd be annoyed if this thread was about the KJV and posters were telling me to not use any modern versions even though I don't ascribe to KJOism anymore as they might), but...it'd be kinda sad if I were to make an issue out of it.
The body is supposed to encourage and admonish one another, after all, although there are going to be things on what liberties should and should not be allowed.

*disputes or differences of opinion, not "things"

 

[Inspector Javert]

........... Your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost, shall I pour anything in my body to harm my liver ?, shall I smoke anything to harm my lungs ?, shall I be a glutton and ruin my digestive system ? Shall I unclothe my body in front of the world and cause them to lust if I was a beautiful woman ? Shall I use foul language because of my liberty and cause my own family not to have confidence in me ?

This is what is meant by taking Scripture out of context....You are absolutely brutalizing I Cor 6:19.

This is the context:
1 Cor. 6:13 Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
1 Cor 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
6: 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
I Cor. 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost

Get it?..........context

Read vs. 18 again:
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Salzer: Drinking is a sin because your body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

Apostle Paul: Thou shalt not interpret my linking of the human body as the Temple of the Holy Ghost to ANY sin whatsoever EXCEPT FOR...fornication alone. (see e.g. vs. 18)

It's almost like Paul included vs. 18 with the express intention of preventing legalist tee-totaling preachers from using it to condemn that which is not sin.

That's context.

 

[salzer mtn]

salzer mtn, if you're wrong then you're wrong! End of subject. Admit it, learn from it and move on to bigger and better things.

A man convinced against his will, is a man still unconvinced.

 

[HAMel]

A man convinced against his will, is a man still unconvinced.

salzer mtn, then all I can tell you is..., have at it.

As the old saying goes, "You can tell people but you can't tell 'em much".

Have a good day pardner.

 

[salzer mtn]

I will be honest and say a lot of my post on this subject of drinking was to add fuel to the fire because I know how you guy's that drink get all bent out of shape when someone rebukes you for your vise. The truth is, there is no unrighteousness in Jacob. If we are saved God views us in Christ and not in ourselves, sin included.

 

[InTheLight]

I will be honest and say a lot of my post on this subject of drinking was to add fuel to the fire because I know how you guy's that drink get all bent out of shape when someone rebukes you for your vise. The truth is, there is no unrighteousness in Jacob. If we are saved God views us in Christ and not in ourselves, sin included.

We can take rebuking, when warranted. But there is no Biblical basis for total abstinence. You could just as well be rebuking people for the sin of eating chocolate iced donuts.

 

[Inspector Javert]

We can take rebuking, when warranted. But there is no Biblical basis for total abstinence. You could just as well be rebuking people for the sin of eating chocolate iced donuts.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Not to mention that there WAS no "fire" for him to add fuel to. There isn't really one now.

For his little "rebuke" to have any meaning, he has to assume his premise that tee-totallism is Biblical is true. Unless he can demonstrate that (and he can't) then it is merely the rantings of someone who wants to call sin what God has meant for good.

 

[saturneptune]

The problem with the Pharisee mindset is that it always results in a man made sliding scale of sin. And as always, the one at the top of the Baptist list is alcohol, followed by lottery tickets, followed by dancing, and adultery comes somewhere under there. Gossip, one of the most destructive sins to a local church, is not only ignored, it is the normal entertainment of the week. Pot lucks are a celebration to see how many people can stuff their guts on seconds and thirds. No wonder the most rare creature on earth is pastoris baptista exilis.

 

[salzer mtn]

The subject of drinking alcohol should be put in a forum all by itself just like the cal/arm subject. Both subjects seems to cause division every time it is mentioned.

 

[Inspector Javert]

Gossip, one of the most destructive sins to a local church, is not only ignored, it is the normal entertainment of the week.

:thumbs::thumbs:
Truer words were never said.

I spent ages in Fundamental Baptist Churches where the preacher insisted every Sunday while abusing his fist upon wooden pulpits that he was quite the courageous and un-compromising fellow for "speaking-out" against sin...and that he "didn't care" what the world wanted to hear, he was quite the bold fellow who would un-compromisingly preach the truth whether it was popular or not.

Truth is...those types are often nothing MORE than pandering populists. They preach to a crowd week-in and week-out who simply adores hearing him rant about sins they (the congregation) neither commit nor are tempted towards committing..........
They were preaching the populist message.....

Let them actually preach about
1.) Self-righteous Pride
2.) Gluttony
3.) Gossip

And the populists who come to have their ears tickled about how evil those drinkers and smokers are, and how un-compromisingly true to the Word of God they all are...and they will run him out of town on a rail!!

 

[preacher4truth]

The problem with the Pharisee mindset is that it always results in a man made sliding scale of sin. And as always, the one at the top of the Baptist list is alcohol, followed by lottery tickets, followed by dancing, and adultery comes somewhere under there. Gossip, one of the most destructive sins to a local church, is not only ignored, it is the normal entertainment of the week. Pot lucks are a celebration to see how many people can stuff their guts on seconds and thirds. No wonder the most rare creature on earth is pastoris baptista exilis.

:thumbs: :thumbsup: :thumbs: :thumbsup:

Exactly. Too many fundies love to preach about what they don't do to rally the pharisees and garner 'amens!'. You know, so they can compare their self-righteousness against others. It's utter foolishness. Preach on gluttony, gossip, sowing discord, hatred for others, self-righteousness and their proof-texting fallacies and you'll be hated. When they do the former and disdain the latter it's nothing less than accumulating to themselves preachers to tickle their ears.

 

[saturneptune]

The subject of drinking alcohol should be put in a forum all by itself just like the cal/arm subject. Both subjects seems to cause division every time it is mentioned.

And it is understandable. That is an exact image of the gap between Christ while here on earth and the Pharisees. Here is a abstaining pastor.

liquid that is

 

[evenifigoalone]

This thread didn't seem to be a debate at all until a little bit after I posted, actually. <.<....:saint:

 

[salzer mtn]

The problem with the Pharisee mindset is that it always results in a man made sliding scale of sin. And as always, the one at the top of the Baptist list is alcohol, followed by lottery tickets, followed by dancing, and adultery comes somewhere under there. Gossip, one of the most destructive sins to a local church, is not only ignored, it is the normal entertainment of the week. Pot lucks are a celebration to see how many people can stuff their guts on seconds and thirds. No wonder the most rare creature on earth is pastoris baptista exilis.

It is amazing how far we have slid backward. Spurgeon preached against people going to the theater which in his day was just a play. So you mentioned lottery tickets, would that mean you are all for gambling ? Do some of you people not have any morals at all ? If you promote drinking and gambling why not bring the beer into the worship service and pass out one each to everyone there. Is Bingo night really gambling night in your churches ? Will the church someday turn out to be nothing more than a casino?

 

[Inspector Javert]

This thread didn't seem to be a debate at all until a little bit after I posted, actually. <.<....:saint:

It wasn't YOUR posting quest....I assure you.

 

[Inspector Javert]

It is amazing how far we have slid backward. Spurgeon preached against people going to the theater which in his day was just a play

Inasmuch as Baptists don't have a Pope named C.H. Spurgeon, then....who cares? You are aware that Spurgeon smoked cigars right?....Aren't you? Did Pastor tell you that?

Do some of you people not have any morals at all

Oh, none that's obviously what follows:
Premise 1: Alcohol used in moderation is not a sin in Scripture and the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus in perfect sinlessness used alcohol

Conclusion: Anyone who agrees with this has no morals and would happily murder and cannibalize small children.

If you promote drinking and gambling

No one actually "promoted" gambling.....no one did.

why not bring the beer into the worship service and pass out one each to everyone there.

Worship Service???? no.

Men's camping retreat?.......Yes all day.
Our churches would be much stronger if they could and would. Instead, we hang out with our non-Christian friends in order to moderately have a few beers during the football game. I'd give anything to sit and sip some Brandy or Grand Marnier and smoke a fine cigar late into the night talking Theology with my Pastor....

Instead....I have a slew of Godly and intelligent Presbyterian friends with whom I engage in this activity. I'd give anything not to be the only Baptist in the group.

Will the church someday turn out to be nothing more than a casino?

No....it's a cheap celebrity gossip trash-mag that you find at the check-out counter of your local grocery store.