Wine & Alcohol part 37

We have tried over and over and over again, yet you ignore the obvious.

The word wine, as has been proven by scripture and ignored by you and others countless times, is a generic word. It can mean fermented or unfermented depending upon the context.

When the wine is spoken of as a blessing or gladdening the heart, it is unfermented. When it is spoken of as a curse or in the sense of drunkenness, it is fermented.


I will no longer post this fact, as you and others just trample these pearls of fact and wisdom under your feet as if they were worthless.

 

M.R. DeHaan says you speak nonsense. I agree with the good Doctor.

 

Along with Martin Luther, I very much enjoy dealing the devil blows over a few beers or glasses of wine.

Obviously, I am of the moderationist school of thought on this matter.

If you don't feel the freedom to be where I am at, then you do best to stay where you are at. Seriously.

 

So now I'm not saved?

"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath." - Colossians 2:16

Why do you want pass judgment on others in questions of drink?

 

HBSMN wrote:

You are correct: I was thinking of the wrong passage. The passage in question is John chapter 10. My lapse in referring to the correct passage doesn't negate your incorrect animistic beliefs in regards to wine, however.

 

One can still allow the natural man to interpret Scripture, what I am afraid you have done.

 

You know, when the two men on the road to Emmaeus reminisced of their conversation with Jesus, one asked the question,
'Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?'

God's Word has been shared. If the truth of those scriptures has not caused your hearts to burn within you concerning this matter, then you choose to walk in darkness.

As for me, I will continue to walk in His Light. Alchohol in the life of a Christian is forbidden. So says God's Word.

 

YOu, my friend, are walking in darkness then...

 

No, my friend. I have shown scripture to prove we are to abstain. HBSMN has shown extensive scripture. Yet those who drink, and those who advocate that drink that God's Word clearly calls the venom of asps choose to ignore the clear and evident Word of Almighty God.

Those who choose not to obey His Word choose to walk in darkness.

 

The Bible clearly shows that wine does bite like a serpent. You choose to deny it. Take it up with God.

 

You two have only shown that Christians can eisegete, contort and twist Scripture to fit manmade doctrine the same as non Christians.

 

Proverbs 12:15 15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

I have harkened to the counsel of God's Word, and obeyed it. I have abstained from alcoholic beverages.

 

Good for you. Now please hearkeneth unto that counsel which is wise.

 

Are you saying God's Word is not wise?

Oh, that's right.
1 Corinthians 2:14 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

Ummmm....no. The foolishness is phrases like "whenever wine is mentioned with blessings it's non alcoholic and whenever it is mentioned with curses it's alcoholic". That's pure foolishness and clearly eisegeting Scripture to fit manmade doctrine and convictions which is also foolishness.

 

Amazing! God's Word shows us we are to abstain from alcoholic beverage and you are telling us to ignore His Word?

Isaiah 30:9-10 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: 10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

 

webdog.

Just supposing every instance in the Word of God where wine is mentioned, it is speaking of alcoholic wine.

Why would God say don't even look at alcoholic wine in Proverbs if He did not mean it? Nowhere in it did he say 'Just drink it until you begin to feel that buzz and then put it down and don't look at it. He said 'Look thou not.'

Why would God call it the venom of asps and want His children to partake of it?

His Word tells us
1 Corinthians 3:17 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Doctors will tell you alcohol kills brain cells. The very first sip is the beginning of the destruction of the brain cells. One does not drink a glass of beer or wine before the destruction begins. The alcohol enters the blood stream from the moment one begins ingesting it.

One is defiling the temple when one drinks, even in moderation. Thereby, disobeying God's Word.

 

How obtuse can you possibly be? I don't deny what the Bible says. What I DO DENY is HBSMN's claim that that makes wine a living, animate entity [see his repeated claims that wine is animate], and inherently evil.

If I wanted to believe in animism (as HBSMN construes the meaning of the verse in question) I'd probably be a Druid or a Buddhist, rather than being a Baptist. Unlike him, I don't believe that inanimate things can have inherently evil intentions. Things are morally neutral. Angels & Humans are God's only creations which aren't morally neutral. Fallen angels (i.e. Satan & his demons) became innately evil; and humans are born with an original sin nature, after the fall. To claim that what is inanimate can inherently possess an evil nature mocks Christ's sacrifice for sin. Christ died on the cross for sinful man; and not for supposedly sinful inanimate objects.

HBSMN claimed that what makes wine animate, in his estimation, is that under a microscope it can display movement. So what? If I pop open a 7Up, or drop an alka-seltzer pellet in a glass of water, you will also see movement in the liquid. Unlike HBSMN, I don't therefore live in fear that the liquid is harboring some inherently evil intentions towards me.

 

His blood spoke my name,

You have made repeated claims that any consumption of alcoholic drinks by Christians is sin. Please post one verse in context that backs your claim. We agree that drunkenness is sin, so avoid passages that deal with drunks. Thanks

 

I think you need to look up the definition of the word "Animism":

5 results for: Animism
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source new!
an‧i‧mism  /ˈænəˌmɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-uh-miz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the belief that natural objects, natural phenomena, and the universe itself possess souls.
2. the belief that natural objects have souls that may exist apart from their material bodies.
3. the doctrine that the soul is the principle of life and health.
4. belief in spiritual beings or agencies.
[Origin: 1825–35; < L anim(a) (see anima) + -ism]

—Related forms
an‧i‧mist, adjective
an‧i‧mis‧tic, adjective
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source new!
an·i·mism (n-mzm) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "Animism" [P]
n.

1. The belief in the existence of individual spirits that inhabit natural objects and phenomena.
2. The belief in the existence of spiritual beings that are separable or separate from bodies.
3. The hypothesis holding that an immaterial force animates the universe.



[From Latin anima, soul. See an- in Indo-European Roots.]
ani·mist n.
ani·mistic adj.

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The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source new!

Main Entry: an·i·mism
Pronunciation: 'an-&-"miz-&m
Function: noun
1 : a doctrine that the vital principle of organic development is immaterial spirit
2 : attribution of conscious life to nature or natural objects —an·i·mist /-m&st/ noun —an·i·mis·tic /"an-&-'mis-tik/ adjective
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
WordNet - Cite This Source new!

Animism

n : the doctrine that all natural objects and the universe itself have souls; "animism is common among primitive peoples"
WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University
On-line Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source new!

Animism

Nowhere did HBSMN say that wine had a soul!! The nature of wine or any drink is ORGANIC:

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source new!
or·gan·ic (ôr-gnk) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "Organic" [P]
adj.

1. Of, relating to, or derived from living organisms: organic matter.
2. Of, relating to, or affecting a bodily organ: an organic disease.
3.
1. Of, marked by, or involving the use of fertilizers or pesticides that are strictly of animal or vegetable origin: organic vegetables; an organic farm.
2. Raised or conducted without the use of drugs, hormones, or synthetic chemicals: organic chicken; organic cattle farming.
3. Serving organic food: an organic restaurant.
4. Simple, healthful, and close to nature: an organic lifestyle.
4.
1. Having properties associated with living organisms.
2. Resembling a living organism in organization or development; interconnected: society as an organic whole.
5. Constituting an integral part of a whole; fundamental.
6. Law. Denoting or relating to the fundamental or constitutional laws and precepts of a government or an organization.
7. Chemistry. Of or designating carbon compounds.


n.

1. A substance, especially a fertilizer or pesticide, of animal or vegetable origin.
2. Chemistry. An organic compound.

The effects of ETHANOL/ETHYL AlCOHOL (C2H5OH) "bites like a serpent and stings like an adder".

I would suggest that you do some study on the customs of the Jews in Bible times--they preferred the "unfermented fruit of the vine". Jesus Christ never made fermented wine nor did he drink it--by doing so, He would have broken the Scriptures. By saying He did so, you make Him a sinner--and if a sinner, He would not be the Saviour--and we are all deceived and on our way to hell.