Wine & Alcohol part 37

75 verses were posted about the evil of alcohol consumption and you did not receive them. If Jesus Christ knocked on your door and gave you the same verses, you would reject them from Him as well.

They hear not the preachers, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

The problem is you have it backwords. Grapes have leaven on them. Fresh grape juice is full of leaven. Only when the wine reaches around %14 is the leaven (yeast) killed.

Think about this. Leaven (yeast) is in the bactiria family. Now what kills bactirias. Alcohol. When the wine reaches a certen level of alcohol it steralizes itself. That is why wine can not ferment much past %14 because it kills the agent yeast that is making the alcohol.

BTW. You can see the leaven on the skin of grapes, plums, cherrys. It is the white dust that collects on the skin. You can wipe it away with your finger.

 

75 verses were posted on the evil of drunkeness. Nothing was posted about consumption of alcohol in moderation.

 

The natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God, neither can he know them; for they are foolishness unto him and are Spiritually discerned.

Man cannot twist scripture to justify his lust to consume alcohol in any amount and expect to stand before a Holy God acceptable unto Him.

 

So you are saying that I am lost?

 

Jas 4:1
¶ From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

Jas 4:3
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.


Mt 16:24
¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

I'll say it again. The booze defenders will not obey Scripture. Without controversy it is apparent that they are defending a choice to consume a drug which has killed and maimed millions yet they will not deny the fleshly desire for the pleasure which consumption of it brings in spite of the evidence from wisdom, experience, and Scripture. And they still stiffen their necks in spite of appeals to keep the testimony of the Christian church above reproach.

"Make righteous judgment".

Have your booze. Drink up! Enjoy! Eat, drink and be merry! (Where have we heard THAT wisdom before???)

 

Let me clear it up.

"You ask how I can expect to stand before Holy God acceptable to Him?"

My answer is I will never be acceptable to him (neither will you) I will stand before him and be judged based on the righoutness of Jesus Christ. No matter if I am right about alcohol or I am wrong and you are right. I will still kneel before God and be judged rightous based on the Blood of Jesus. Nothing I do or do not do will affect my salvation that was given to my thru faith in Christ.

Now you need to do a little more diggen in the Word. Clear up the false doctrine of works and being righoutous on your own. Then you can debate the details of scripture like this.

 

I already am acceptable to God. I am daily presenting my body a living sacrifice.

Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Not sacrificing myself to alcohol, but to God.

 

And there you go...

HBSMN posted the very verse that shows it is not unreasonable to be holy and acceptable in this life.

When God said, 'Be ye holy' in Leviticus, He was not saying empty words. Be ye holy was a command, not a suggestion. One cannot be holy partaking of that alcohol.

 

Allow me to clear up this false notion that when we stand before Him that we are immune to judgment based on His righteousness.
2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
2Co 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Co 5:11
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

 

We know that drunkenness is sin. So why the verses on drunkenness? Please post one verse that says that it is a sin for a Christian to drink wine in moderation.

 

Personal attack removed

 

Proverbs 4:14-17 14 Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men. 15 Avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it, and pass away. 16 For they sleep not, except they have done mischief; and their sleep is taken away, unless they cause some to fall. 17 For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence.

This passage does not speak of drunkenness. It says that evil men drink the wine of violence... i.e. fermented wine.

Those who say they drink alcohol must be admitting to entering the path of the wicked.

 

I haven't seen ONE verse posted, by those defending drinking in moderation, that specifically states that it is OK to drink alcohol in moderation. The context of Romans 14 is Christian liberty--not drinking in moderation--yet that is the only scripture I find posted here in defense of drinking in moderation.

 

It saddens me to see so many are deceived by alcohol. Many are so deceived into thinking that there is nothing wrong with partaking of that which the Word of God calls the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps', that they attack the messenger who proclaims the Word of God.

 

Proverbs 23: 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Does not say to drink as long as you do not get drunk. It says 'Look not.' That word 'Look' means do not have experience with. How can you drink in moderation and not have experience with it at the same time? It is impossible! This verse clearly shows the child of God is to practice abstinence.

Why would a loving God tell His children it is ok to drink poison? Would you tell your children to drink poison?

BTW, those two verses are from points 22 and 23.

 

What about Deuteronomy 14:24-27, especially verse 26?

 

As Deuteronomy was addressed (and apparently ignored) in post 39, I have copied it from there to be again shown that the wine in Deuteronomy 14 could in no way be alcoholic wine.

Deuteronomy 14:26 26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,


Those proponents of moderation with respect to intoxicating beverages might suggest that this text sanctions and encourages the drinking of beer and alcoholic wine. To be fair, it appears to be so, but this is not the case. In examining this passage we will learn that the book of Deuteronomy furnishes us with a perfect example of the following:

A) a correct understanding of the generic words which are used for "wine" and "strong drink" respectfully.
B) a proper application of the law of context
C) a complete understanding of God's view on the subject of drinking.

Now in returning to the text, we will see that the Bible itself conclusively refutes any suggestions whatsoever that this text endorses the use of alcoholic drinks.

We have already learned in our studies that the words translated "wine" [yayin] and "strong drink" [shekar] here are generic, and may refer to fresh grape juice and a sweet pleasant drink which was unfermented. What kind of beverage is this verse referring to? Since it may be argued that this text can be interpreted according to one's own particular bias, the answer is very simple. Deuteronomy 29:6 explains:

Deuteronomy 29:6 6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God.



Here this passage proves that the "wine" and "strong drink" in chapter 14: 26 cannot be the same as that mentioned here! The inspired text later goes on to explain in no uncertain terms exactly what kind of wine the Jews did drink. It reads:

Deuteronomy 32:14 14 Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape.



Here Moses names among the many blessings of the Lord, pure fresh grape juice known as "the blood of the grape" which was highly esteemed.

excerpt from "Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Total Abstinence" by Leighton G. Campbell pp. 91, 92

 

None of those scriptures forbid drinking alcohol. They warn against getting drunk, not drinking wine.

Wake me up when this argument is settled and everyone has reached agreement on how to interpret those scriptures.
:sleeping_2: