Wine As A Beverage

[steaver]

Why is that bogus? I love the taste of many alcoholic drinks. A good margherita with Mexican food rocks. Of course it has to be on the rocks - I hate the frozen ones. A glass of wine with a good dinner is amazing and the closest I get to it now is to cook with it. You can't beat the taste of wine in cooking whether it be red or white and it's false that the alcohol all cooks off in a few minutes of cooking. Of course beer and pizza is the perfect pair but now I do with a coke. There are many other drinks that I used to drink because of the taste. So I don't understand the "everybody knows that's bogus". I STILL drink a seabreeze which is grapefruit juice and cranberry juice with vodka but I just don't add the vodka (which adds a little bit of a different flavor but not too much). Even my 9 year old son makes this for himself and I'm sure it's not because it used to have alcohol in it. :laugh:

Sorry to break this to you sister, but alcohol does not add "good" flavor to a drink. Why do you think people mix all kinds of stuff together to mask it so they can get it down their throats?

"I STILL drink a seabreeze which is grapefruit juice and cranberry juice with vodka but I just don't add the vodka (which adds a little bit of a different flavor but not too much).

You just made my point. Good Taste has NOTHING to do with the alcohol. One can purchase beer and wine which taste like beer and wine which has no alcohol. Thus, the "everybody knows that is bogus" is truth.

I know these things from personal experience. I drank many, many different alcoholic beverages in my time as a sinner. The stronger the alcohol content the WORSE it taste, at least until you get enough of them in you to not notice anymore.

The "taste good" is bogus indeed.

 

[steaver]

Hey Ann, why don't you try a shot of straight vodka and see how it goes down? Or maybe some pure grain alcohol? Tell me how "good" it taste!

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Steaver, is it your personal conviction that it is a sin to drink alcohol as a beverage? Just wondering.

 

[steaver]

Because he is not allowed to start at age 20. :laugh: Seriously, it's like any other rite of passage (going to college, getting married, going in debt to buy your first house, etc.)

What would be the rite of passage you speak of?

Well, I do like the taste but it's more than that. It's pleasurable, just like drinking coffe, eating ice cream, watching a movie, having s*x,

Therein lies the evil. My young teenager use to ask me why something that makes you feel good should be avoided. There is nothing new under the sun.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


So you have shown that it is not the "taste" you seek but the drunk you can get from the alcohol. For you could drink beer or wine which has no alcohol in it but that would not give you the high you are looking for.

Actually the burden is on you to show that He wasn't because John 2:10, Luke 7:34, Matthew 9:17 and other passages show they were talking about an alcoholic beverage.

Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.

Would Jesus go against His own Word and drink this type of wine?

Pro 31:4¶[It is] not for kings, O Lemuel, [it is] not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

Is Jesus a King? Is Jesus a Priest?

 

[steaver]

Steaver, is it your personal conviction that it is a sin to drink alcohol as a beverage? Just wondering.

If the desire is the alcohol in the beverage then it is seeking that which is condemned in scripture.

WIth hundreds of beverages available for us and even beers and wines without alcohol why would a person seek one with alcohol?

The answer is clear. They seek the drunkenness, the high feeling they can receive. We are told to NOT seek this drunk from alcohol but to seek the Holy Spirit. Alcohol is a substitute for God. It is an idol.

Believe me, i know all about worshipping at the keg. We planned gatherings all the time and the god that we worshiped was called alcohol. You all know exactly what I am talking about. WE could all get together and drink soda pop, but that just didn't seem to bind us together like a beer. Wonder why that is, yeah. Satan knows why that is and Eve found out in the garden. Choose this day whom ye will serve.

 

[steaver]

Alcohol....


Also called ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol, ethanol, fermentation alcohol. a colorless, limpid, volatile, flammable, water-miscible liquid, C 2 H 5 OH, having an etherlike odor and pungent, burning taste, the intoxicating principle of fermented liquors, produced by yeast fermentation of certain carbohydrates, as grains, molasses, starch, or sugar, or obtained synthetically by hydration of ethylene or as a by-product of certain hydrocarbon syntheses: used chiefly as a solvent in the extraction of specific substances, in beverages, medicines, organic synthesis, lotions, tonics, colognes, rubbing compounds, as an automobile radiator antifreeze, and as a rocket fuel. Compare denatured alcohol, methyl alcohol.


Oh yeah! It taste soooooooo good!!

Like I said "bogus".

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Is there anything wrong with the fact that wine cheers the heart? Is this not God's gift? Drunkenness is another matter.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Is there anything wrong with the fact that wine cheers the heart? Is this not God's gift? Drunkenness is another matter.

To drink or not to drink as a SOCIAL issue is a matter of personal decision that is regulated to Romans 14 to those things neither right or wrong in themselves. The abuse is wrong and that may include drinking when it hinders your witness or becomes a stumbling block to others. However, to use it as defining doctrine to judge this or that denomination is complete ludicrousy.

 

[steaver]

Is there anything wrong with the fact that wine cheers the heart? Is this not God's gift? Drunkenness is another matter.

How about marijuana? My teenager use to use this same logic. "God made the weed for us to enjoy". God also says that He creates the evil and the good.

 

[annsni]

Sorry to break this to you sister, but alcohol does not add "good" flavor to a drink. Why do you think people mix all kinds of stuff together to mask it so they can get it down their throats?

Many don't.

You just made my point. Good Taste has NOTHING to do with the alcohol. One can purchase beer and wine which taste like beer and wine which has no alcohol. Thus, the "everybody knows that is bogus" is truth.

Let me ask you this: does Diet Coke and Coke taste the same? No. Neither does non alcoholic beer or wine taste the same as it's alcoholic counterpart.

I know these things from personal experience. I drank many, many different alcoholic beverages in my time as a sinner. The stronger the alcohol content the WORSE it taste, at least until you get enough of them in you to not notice anymore.

The "taste good" is bogus indeed.

That might be your opinion but it's certainly not the opinion of everyone or nearly most - or even a good bit. A good wine tastes delicious and a deep ale is amazing. I've had scotch straight and it's very tasty to me. I've not had vodka straight or rum but I've had them in other drinks and they are quite tasty too. Taste is in the tongue of the beholder. Maybe you drank so much that you burned your taste buds.

 

[annsni]

Hey Ann, why don't you try a shot of straight vodka and see how it goes down? Or maybe some pure grain alcohol? Tell me how "good" it taste!

Those are not meant to be had straight. Why not have some vanilla extract straight? Because even flavored, it's terrible. But have a glass of a nice Chardonnay? You betcha!

 

[annsni]

How about marijuana? My teenager use to use this same logic. "God made the weed for us to enjoy". God also says that He creates the evil and the good.

He did? What verse would that be? See, there's a verse saying that God made wine to gladden the heart. That would be God's Word. So where does the Bible say that God made weed for us to enjoy?

I think you have bigger problems in your life if your teen is trying to smoke something that is illegal and trying to justify it. You may want to spend more time bringing him up in the way he should go rather than being here arguing about something that you have no support for.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Any church that does not allow its members to drink wine as a beverage is a church Christ and His apostles could not join.

 

[jaigner]

Hey Ann, why don't you try a shot of straight vodka and see how it goes down? Or maybe some pure grain alcohol? Tell me how "good" it taste!

Sounds like you have no idea about this at all. The more you talk, the more ridiculous you are sounding. I have no problem that you stay away from alcohol, but there is nothing even remotely biblical about your argument. Do what your faith allows you to do here, but allow the rest of us the same freedom.

When I was in school in Chicago, I used to very much enjoy sipping (not shooting) a small portion of straight scotch or bourbon when it was very cold outside. I'd come home from work late at night during the dead of winter and a little of that stuff would warm me right up.

Maybe the same would work for you. A glass of wine might calm you down a little bit.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Any church that does not allow its members to drink wine as a beverage is a church Christ and His apostles could not join.

That is such a stupid statement because the Scriptures NOWHERE give this as a qualification to be a church of Christ and indeed encourages the church at Rome to abstain from drinking if it became a stumbling stone to your brother and I Corinthians 9 explicitly instructs the Corinthian church to take the more mature attitude and give up anything less than principle that would hinder ones gospel testimony.

It can be argued that in our society social drinking can be a hinderance to your gospel testimony.

 

[steaver]

Let me ask you this: does Diet Coke and Coke taste the same? No. Neither does non alcoholic beer or wine taste the same as it's alcoholic counterpart.

That might be your opinion but it's certainly not the opinion of everyone or nearly most - or even a good bit. A good wine tastes delicious and a deep ale is amazing. I've had scotch straight and it's very tasty to me. I've not had vodka straight or rum but I've had them in other drinks and they are quite tasty too. Taste is in the tongue of the beholder. Maybe you drank so much that you burned your taste buds.

Your not grasping the facts Ann. The alcohol is NOT what makes these drinks taste "good". Some mixes mask the pungent alcohol very well.

Try a shot of pure alcohol Ann, then come tell me how wonderful it was.

 

[steaver]

Those are not meant to be had straight. Why not have some vanilla extract straight? Because even flavored, it's terrible. But have a glass of a nice Chardonnay? You betcha!

You make my point again. Alcohol does not add "good" taste.

 

[annsni]

That is such a stupid statement because the Scriptures NOWHERE give this as a qualification to be a church of Christ and indeed encourages the church at Rome to abstain from drinking if it became a stumbling stone to your brother and I Corinthians 9 explicitly instructs the Corinthian church to take the more mature attitude and give up anything less than principle that would hinder ones gospel testimony.

It can be argued that in our society social drinking can be a hinderance to your gospel testimony.

I think the issue is a church making it a rule for their members. I know of churches that do just that - if you are going to be a member of their church, you will not drink - period. If you are found to have even one drink, you are disfellowshipped. That's unbiblical.

 

[steaver]

He did? What verse would that be? See, there's a verse saying that God made wine to gladden the heart. That would be God's Word. So where does the Bible say that God made weed for us to enjoy?

I think you have bigger problems in your life if your teen is trying to smoke something that is illegal and trying to justify it. You may want to spend more time bringing him up in the way he should go rather than being here arguing about something that you have no support for.

Come now sister. You are getting frustrated and saying things you ought not.

Notice how lovers of alcohol love the verse "wine that makes the heart merry", but some how just ignore that one that says don't even look at it. Why is that you think?

So you believe the bible promotes drinking alcohol but does not promote marijuana? Why? Both drugs create the same effect.

 

[steaver]

Sounds like you have no idea about this at all. The more you talk, the more ridiculous you are sounding. I have no problem that you stay away from alcohol, but there is nothing even remotely biblical about your argument. Do what your faith allows you to do here, but allow the rest of us the same freedom.

.

Been there done that. God has taught me how to discern between good and evil by allowing the scriptures to speak.

Here is one for you to discern....

Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.