Wine As A Beverage

[annsni]

The law here in Pa states that .08 blood alcohol content is drunk. That would be 12oz of beer or 4oz of wine for anyone under 130lbs. Over that weight and you can have a couple more ozs. These figures are for legally declared drunk by the law. Studies show that .05 is also drunk but not to the degree of arrest. Not yet anyways, give then some more time.

I don't think those statistics are correct.

So when you did have a drink Ann, did you stay under 4 ounces of wine?

In one hour? Less than that.

How about you other guys defending this? Just one and done? Two would declare you drunk by law and by scientific studies.

One drink is plenty. Two over a whole evening is fine.

God doesn't say this about food....

Pro 20:1Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Pro 23:31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.

Yet He spoke of not eating certain foods, not being a glutton.

Are you saying this is non-alcoholic wine spoken of? If not, then it is wine that has enough alcohol in it to cause intoxication. Even "near beer" has a minute trace of alcohol in it, but you could never drink enough of it to get drunk. The wine the disciples would have been drinking would be such a wine. So weak that they would have had to drink gallons of it to get a buzz. Which one would probably throw up from too much juice before ever reaching a drunk.

Do you have Scriptural support for this or just opinion?

No, this debate is not about choice of beverage. This is about choice of drug and seeking a drunk. How many of you ever said "I need a drink"? What you are really saying is "I need a drug". God says seek Him, not the wine or beer.

I need a cup of tea right now. It relaxes me and makes me feel good. My regular tea also awakens me so I will not have it right now. I think I will have instead a cup of chamomile tea because I need a cup of tea. Yes, I need it. So I shouldn't because I should be seeking God and not a drug? Oh and chamomile is a drug too - yet one more drug that God created for our benefit.

 

[steaver]

I don't think those statistics are correct.

.

http://www.ohsinc.com/alcohol_abuse_addiction_BAC_CHART.htm

Do you have Scriptural support for this or just opinion?

Jesus would not violate His own Word.

Pro 20:1Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Pro 23:31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.

I need a cup of tea right now. It relaxes me and makes me feel good. My regular tea also awakens me so I will not have it right now. I think I will have instead a cup of chamomile tea because I need a cup of tea. Yes, I need it. So I shouldn't because I should be seeking God and not a drug? Oh and chamomile is a drug too - yet one more drug that God created for our benefit.

And a drug that is not a mocker, raging and can cause you to become deceived and intoxicated.

 

[steaver]

Ask God - He's the One who has spoken of it.

In other words, you have no idea or know the answer but the answer would hurt your case.

The answer is they mean the same thing. When I use to drink alcohol it was for the same reason everyone does, get to the "merry" stage. Which is to say "under the influence". Which is to say "drunk".

I always like how my friends would declare that they were NOT DRUNK! Just "buzzed". And then there are those who say "It takes at least ten beers to get me drunk".

Funny how a drunk never wants to admit they are drunk. Guess what? As soon as you start feeling the influence of the alcohol, you are "drunk".

 

[jaigner]

In other words, you have no idea or know the answer but the answer would hurt your case.

The answer is they mean the same thing. When I use to drink alcohol it was for the same reason everyone does, get to the "merry" stage. Which is to say "under the influence". Which is to say "drunk".

I always like how my friends would declare that they were NOT DRUNK! Just "buzzed". And then there are those who say "It takes at least ten beers to get me drunk".

Funny how a drunk never wants to admit they are drunk. Guess what? As soon as you start feeling the influence of the alcohol, you are "drunk".

Your points are now just pure speculation. This has nothing to do with whether it's appropriate for believers.

We need to realize that, in the grand scheme of things, this just isn't a big deal. That's the problem with being legalistic. It elevates the smallest points of interpretation to where they are essentials of the faith.

Whether to drink or watch TV or see movies or eat steak for dinner is adiaphora. This is a non-essential of the faith.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Jaigner: Whether to drink or watch TV or see movies or eat steak for dinner is adiaphora. This is a non-essential of the faith.

HP: So with this comment you throw out the wise comment concerning conscience you made earlier? So are you to conclude that a clear conscience has nothing to do with the faith?

 

[steaver]

Your points are now just pure speculation.

Well if you look up the definitions I believe you will see that my points are not speculative but are based on fact.

"Drunk" - "intoxicated" - "affected by a substance that intoxicates".

"Intoxicate" - "to affect temporarily with diminished physical and mental control by means of alcohol beverage, a drug, or another substance".

To view the facts concerning when one falls subject to "diminished physical or mental control" visit this site ...

http://www.ohsinc.com/alcohol_abuse_..._BAC_CHART.htm

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver, the link must not be right.

 

[annsni]

http://www.ohsinc.com/alcohol_abuse_addiction_BAC_CHART.htm

I checked three other charts and they disagree with that:

http://www.globalrph.com/bac.cgi
bloodalcoholcalculator.org/
http://www.ou.edu/oupd/bac.htm

Jesus would not violate His own Word.

Pro 20:1Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Pro 23:31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.

So you only have two verses that speak of wine in the entire Bible? Jesus could not violate His own Word - and we see that the Bible not only allows for drinking of alcoholic beverages, it was part of God's blessing to His people. Jesus did not violate His own Word because He did not become drunk.

According to you, God is either schitzo or deceptive. Which is it?

And a drug that is not a mocker, raging and can cause you to become deceived and intoxicated.

How do you know?

 

[annsni]

In other words, you have no idea or know the answer but the answer would hurt your case.

The answer is they mean the same thing. When I use to drink alcohol it was for the same reason everyone does, get to the "merry" stage. Which is to say "under the influence". Which is to say "drunk".

I always like how my friends would declare that they were NOT DRUNK! Just "buzzed". And then there are those who say "It takes at least ten beers to get me drunk".

Funny how a drunk never wants to admit they are drunk. Guess what? As soon as you start feeling the influence of the alcohol, you are "drunk".

And when I drank, I never felt the affects of the alcohol. Apparently you were a drunk. I was not. One glass of wine over the course of a meal wouldn't make me feel anything other than feeling "yum - that was good".

 

[steaver]

This has nothing to do with whether it's appropriate for believers.

.

We represent Jesus Christ and we are called to be blameless, giving no occasion for others to doubt our loyality to righteousness.

We need to realize that, in the grand scheme of things, this just isn't a big deal.

Maybe you do not know the amount of alcoholics that I do. It is an addictive drug and causes havock in relationships and families. I girl I know was just in the news this morning. She called the local hospital (drunk again) and told them if they would not admit her for alcoholism she was going to hurt someone. The police was called and she sits in jail right now.

I had an uncle who struggled and begged God to help him overcome the alcohol but he was week in faith and just could not rid himself of it. It took his life about two years ago.

We Christians above all should realize that it is a big deal and should be ashamed and repentive for trying to rationalize it.

"Responsible consumption" is a lie from the pit of hell. You don't know the make up of each person. You don't know which one's system will respond in that addictive way. Careful what you promote, it could be your own child that gets caught up in the grasp of the drug. What will you tell your child when they turn to you and say that you said a little bit would not harm me?

 

[steaver]

And when I drank, I never felt the affects of the alcohol. Apparently you were a drunk. I was not. One glass of wine over the course of a meal wouldn't make me feel anything other than feeling "yum - that was good".

Yes, I was a drunk. I already admitted as much. You were never drunk so you don't really understand any of these things we have been speaking about. You have no first hand experience as to what alcohol does to the system. You have been arguing that it is good and a gift from God and have never even felt it's effects. So why have you been arguing for something you have no knowledge of?

 

[steaver]

Steaver, the link must not be right.

Let me try this one...

http://www.ohsinc.com/drunk_driving_laws_blood_breath _alcohol_limits_chart.htm

and then click on "How many drinks will make you drunk" on the left about half way down the page.

 

[jaigner]

We represent Jesus Christ and we are called to be blameless, giving no occasion for others to doubt our loyality to righteousness.



Maybe you do not know the amount of alcoholics that I do. It is an addictive drug and causes havock in relationships and families. I girl I know was just in the news this morning. She called the local hospital (drunk again) and told them if they would not admit her for alcoholism she was going to hurt someone. The police was called and she sits in jail right now.

I had an uncle who struggled and begged God to help him overcome the alcohol but he was week in faith and just could not rid himself of it. It took his life about two years ago.

We Christians above all should realize that it is a big deal and should be ashamed and repentive for trying to rationalize it.

"Responsible consumption" is a lie from the pit of hell. You don't know the make up of each person. You don't know which one's system will respond in that addictive way. Careful what you promote, it could be your own child that gets caught up in the grasp of the drug. What will you tell your child when they turn to you and say that you said a little bit would not harm me?

There is just no reasoning with this. Hypotheticals and anecdotal evidence does nothing to promote discussion on whether it's appropriate for believers.

I'm not trying to rationalize anything. You're the one that is resorting to rationalizing here. My point is that there is nothing in the Bible that prohibits this. It's a Baptist thing...especially a Baptist in the south thing.

This sounds exactly like the meat eating debate in Romans 14, where people are judging each other over the strength or weakness of faith. It's just not productive.

 

[annsni]

Yes, I was a drunk. I already admitted as much. You were never drunk so you don't really understand any of these things we have been speaking about. You have no first hand experience as to what alcohol does to the system. You have been arguing that it is good and a gift from God and have never even felt it's effects. So why have you been arguing for something you have no knowledge of?

I'm arguing for the Scriptural support of partaking of alcohol. I hear all this talk of how one drink will make you drunk, it's a stepping stone to evil and all this other stuff. I'm showing that responsible drinking does happen when one follows the wisdom of God's Word. I've been around those who have been drunk. I've helped people get home who have been drunk (people we have ministered to). I know just what it does. Do I need to have been drunk in order to say "Getting drunk is wrong but a drink is OK?"

 

[annsni]

Let me try this one...

http://www.ohsinc.com/drunk_driving_laws_blood_breath _alcohol_limits_chart.htm

and then click on "How many drinks will make you drunk" on the left about half way down the page.

According to the three calculators I found, that chart is wrong.

 

[steaver]

I'm arguing for the Scriptural support of partaking of alcohol. I hear all this talk of how one drink will make you drunk, it's a stepping stone to evil and all this other stuff. I'm showing that responsible drinking does happen when one follows the wisdom of God's Word. I've been around those who have been drunk. I've helped people get home who have been drunk (people we have ministered to). I know just what it does. Do I need to have been drunk in order to say "Getting drunk is wrong but a drink is OK?"

You made the statement "Alcohol is God's gift to mankind". And you have never ever partaken of this "great gift" you are promoting!

If it is such a wonderful gift then why have'nt YOU partaken of it?

If you will not partake and never have then you should not be declaring how "wonderful" it is. It is not wonderful and I pray your children nor any of your family ever attempts to find out if your are correct.

 

[steaver]

According to the three calculators I found, that chart is wrong.

All the calculators have variables and they all post a disclaimer of that. Take a sample of them all and average it and you will find a close answer. You'll find that it does not take much to impair a person whjich is the point and the facts.

 

[annsni]

You made the statement "Alcohol is God's gift to mankind". And you have never ever partaken of this "great gift" you are promoting!

If it is such a wonderful gift then why have'nt YOU partaken of it?

If you will not partake and never have then you should not be declaring how "wonderful" it is. It is not wonderful and I pray your children nor any of your family ever attempts to find out if your are correct.

I HAVE partaken of it. For years. We only stopped drinking any alcohol when we had a teen move into our home about 10 years ago. She was a very troubled young woman and we didn't want her to have any access to alcohol since she was depressive, on tons of medications and self-mutilating. So it all went down the drain. That young woman led us into ministry with the college students so we continued to not partake but we do have alcohol in our home for cooking. I just made mussels steamed in wine the other day and they were DELICIOUS!!!

But to say that I have not partaken in the wonderful blessing of the fruit of the vine, you are mistaken. I just choose to obey God and not get drunk.

 

[annsni]

All the calculators have variables and they all post a disclaimer of that. Take a sample of them all and average it and you will find a close answer. You'll find that it does not take much to impair a person whjich is the point and the facts.

Which is why we don't take much. I think it's pretty much a no brainer there. Drink a little bit (no more than a glass of wine or it's equivalent) per day and you will be fine. Drink more than that and you most likely will not be. Even a kid can get that message!

 

[Mexdeaf]

I had a bottle of Boone's Farm Apple once when I was 18 and it made me pleasantly tipsy. Never touched the stuff since.

But we have used cooking wine so, maybe I am a sinner after all.:smilewinkgrin: