wine

[Joe]

Yeah but we know someone is drinking Dr. Pepper because the can or bottle reads Dr. Pepper.

Imo, these people were probably drinking from cups, so it was difficult to know what they were drinking.


I'll go to John 19 right now

 

[Sopranette]

Hmm.....now this is getting interesting :thumbs: Gotta see Tim's answer


What's your point Sopranette?

I have seen these two verses compared side by side for years now, so I decided to look into what a "bibber" actually is. It seems many Christians, when it comes to alcohol, seem to think it is nothing or too much, and that one glass is too much. A wine bibber drinks too much. Having a glass of wine does not make a person a winebibber.

love,

Sopranette

 

[kubel]

Saying the Lord promoted wine is blasphemy.

Proverbs 31:6
Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.


BTW: One could drink and not become a drunk. Jesus is a perfect example.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

 

[kubel]

Yeah but we know someone is drinking Dr. Pepper because the can or bottle reads Dr. Pepper.

Imo, these people were probably drinking from cups, so it was difficult to know what they were drinking.

Who says I wasn't drinking Dr. Pepper from a cup?

 

[Joe]

It looks like Jesus drank alcohol right before he died, but I don't see that as a willing act.


I say you were drinking Dr. Pepper from a cup, you were plastered brother :laugh:!!!!


Um, Pastorsbc1303 is growing a white beard now...

 

[webdog]

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

God wouldn't condone wine knowing some would be addicted to it, keeping them from coming to Christ. Saying the Lord promoted wine is blasphemy.

Would God also not condone medicines used to control pain since they are addicting?
Does God also not condone food since some are addicted to it?
Does God also not condone sex since some are addicted to it?

 

[TCGreek]

I think we need to research on the dinner customs of Jesus' day before we make uninformed conclusions.

1. Was wine served at dinner time?

2. What kind of wine was served?

3. Did Jesus when served, asked for something else?

 

[kubel]

I say you weren't drinking Dr. Pepper, you were plastered brother :laugh:!!!!

Nooooo!!! I've been found out! :laugh:

It looks like Jesus drank alcohol right before he died, but I don't see that as a willing act.

But he's Jesus. I doubt the Roman soldiers pulled a fast one on all-knowing God. :laugh:

John 19:28-30
After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

He requested a drink, saying "I thirst", and the Romans, in compassion, gave Him what they were accustomed to drinking. Either that, or they gave him the strong non-cut vinegar wine trying to be evil (which I don't think was the case). But either way, I think we call all agree that Jesus drank knowing full well what it was.

 

[Linda64]

And around and around we go... where it will stop, NOBODY knows.

Wine is alcohol. The same word is used in verses as good AND bad. Overuse of alcohol is wrong. A little wine for your stomach? That's OK. No one is reading anything into what it clearly states.

Wine is alcohol? Are you able to prove that everywhere the word "wine" is used in the Bible (OT and NT), it means fermented/alcoholic? Today, the word "wine" always means alcoholic--but in Bible times, it could mean either fermented or unfermented, depending on the context of the verse. Yes, Jesus did indeed turn the water into "wine"--however that "wine" was NOT fermented--and it seems that nobody can PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it was fermented. Also, it never states in John 2 that He drank any of the "wine" He created. Therefore, unless you can prove that the "wine" you are drinking today (which is always alcoholic) is the VERY SAME as the "wine" Jesus created, you are forbidden by God to drink it---or even to "look upon" it.

 

[webdog]

Everyone, put on their seatbelts !

Imho, Luke 7 isn't referring to Jesus drinking wine at all. Imho, his words prove the opposite when referring to John the Baptist

Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say "He has a demon".

Jesus was saying there is absolutely no reason for the Pharisees and Lawyers to question John the Baptist since he did not partake of the wine ( mind altering poisons) or bad (stale or old) bread. So don't accuse him of acting goofy


Luke 7:34 "The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, "look, a glutton and winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!"

So it seems clear (to me) that Jesus was NOT drinking any alcoholic beverage because Jesus is mocking those who call him a winebibber.

Think about it. They COULD be justified in calling him a winebibber IF he WAS drinking a mind altering substance such as wine. But he wasn't so that is why Jesus mocked them for it.

Let me give you a fictitious statement, and you tell me what the highlighted is referring to...

"My grandfather never rode a Harley or smoked weed, and you said he's nuts. I ride and smoke and you say "look, here is a Hell's angel and pot head".

Can ride and smoke in context really refer to anything BUT riding a harley and smoking weed? Can you honestly say riding is referring to riding a roller coaster...and smoking is referring to smoking a ham?

That verse PROVES beyond a reasonable doubt (if this were presented in court) by self admission that Jesus admitted to drinking a very alcoholic wine, and that is NOT blasphemy...it's Bible!

 

[Joe]

I understood they gave Jesus this alcohol to be evil, can't see any other motive, even if it was custom. They would have still offered the water to cure his thirst, as a spounge with alcohol won't do it.
Jesus cried thirst, yet instead of water, he got something that would burn like fire squeezed from a sponge all over the wounds on his mouth and lips.

 

[webdog]

Wine is alcohol? Are you able to prove that everywhere the word "wine" is used in the Bible (OT and NT), it means fermented/alcoholic?

Are you able to prove everywhere "sandals" is used in the Bible, it means something that is worn on the feet?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Not adding to or subtracting... God said "oinos"
And God meant it...

If you want to deny it Go ahead.

but Oinos is Wine... Go ahead, show me where it is translated as juice.

Here is another passage from Leighton G. Campbell's book 'Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Total Abstinence' that proves beyond the shadow of doubt that Jesus could not have and did not drink alcoholic wine:

Jesus And Wine

In Luke 7:33-35, Jesus said:

Luke 7:33-35 33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. 34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! 35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

The first part of this passage we will deal with is the case regarding John the Baptist’s Abstinence. Some in their zeal for the abstinence cause have incorrectly used this as a case for total abstinence from strong and intoxicating drinks, and have ran into deep problems when faced with the explaining Jesus statement that He had come eating and drinking.

The point is that John the Baptist’s case is not one that can be used for the cause of total abstinence. On announcing John’s birth, the angel said:


Luke 1:15 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

This was a statement declaring that John would adopt a life long Nazarite vow, which would mean that he would have to abstain from everything from the vine, whether it was grapes, grape juice or fermented wine. As was stated earlier in another chapter, this corresponds to the command given by God to Moses in Numbers chapter six verses one to four, which reads:

Numbers 6:1-4 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD: 3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried. 4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.

Although Jesus was a Nazarene because He was brought up there, He was not a Nazarite, in that He had not taken this vow. This is why He was free to eat and drink the fruit of the vine, hence Christ’s statement that He had come eating and drinking. This answers the question of those who pose the argument that the term “drinking” as Jesus used it, was being used in the same sense as we understand it today. In that He was saying that He was a drinker of alcoholic, fermented, or intoxicating beverages.

The Greek language also refutes this suggestion, because a different word is always used to distinguish a drinker of intoxicating beverages from a drinker of something pure such as water or milk. The word Jesus uses to describe His drinking is ‘pino,’ the ordinary word for drink. This is different from the word His enemies use to describe His alleged drinking, as we shall see.

Christ’s enemies called Him a winebibber (a wine drinker), the original word is oinopotes; from oinos, wine and potes, a drinker. When the word oinos (wine) is used in Scripture it means wine in its fermented or unfermented state; but when it is compounded with potes to produce oinopotes, a wine drinker, it always means a drinker of alcoholic wine.

In our opening text Jesus refutes the false accusations of His enemies by saying, “But wisdom is justified of all her children.” The Amplified Bible states:

Yet wisdom is vindicated [shown to be true and divine] by all her children [that is, by their life, character and deeds.] (Luke 7:35)

Ther original word translated “justified” is dikaioo, which primarily means, “to be deemed to be right.” Jesus was therefore saying that the accusations aimed at Him by His enemies that He was a glutton and a wine drinker were false. And that He would be vindicated or shown to be right by the lives of His children or disciples.

Christ’s statement was correct because we read earlier in Acts 2:13, His disciples were accused of being drunk with new wine (sweet grape juice). This however was not a literal accusation but mockery. This was because it was known that the disciples of Christ did not drink intoxicating wine.

We can thus see clearly from the scriptures, that Christ, who is the personification of Wisdom, was not a wine drinker, and He all but states it word for word!
... taken from HBSMN's post found here

 

[webdog]

Here is another passage from Leighton G. Campbell's book 'Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Total Abstinence' that proves beyond the shadow of doubt that Jesus could not have and did not drink alcoholic wine:

Jesus And Wine

In Luke 7:33-35, Jesus said:

Luke 7:33-35 33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. 34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! 35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

The first part of this passage we will deal with is the case regarding John the Baptist’s Abstinence. Some in their zeal for the abstinence cause have incorrectly used this as a case for total abstinence from strong and intoxicating drinks, and have ran into deep problems when faced with the explaining Jesus statement that He had come eating and drinking.

The point is that John the Baptist’s case is not one that can be used for the cause of total abstinence. On announcing John’s birth, the angel said:


Luke 1:15 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

This was a statement declaring that John would adopt a life long Nazarite vow, which would mean that he would have to abstain from everything from the vine, whether it was grapes, grape juice or fermented wine. As was stated earlier in another chapter, this corresponds to the command given by God to Moses in Numbers chapter six verses one to four, which reads:

Numbers 6:1-4 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD: 3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried. 4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.

Although Jesus was a Nazarene because He was brought up there, He was not a Nazarite, in that He had not taken this vow. This is why He was free to eat and drink the fruit of the vine, hence Christ’s statement that He had come eating and drinking. This answers the question of those who pose the argument that the term “drinking” as Jesus used it, was being used in the same sense as we understand it today. In that He was saying that He was a drinker of alcoholic, fermented, or intoxicating beverages.

The Greek language also refutes this suggestion, because a different word is always used to distinguish a drinker of intoxicating beverages from a drinker of something pure such as water or milk. The word Jesus uses to describe His drinking is ‘pino,’ the ordinary word for drink. This is different from the word His enemies use to describe His alleged drinking, as we shall see.

Christ’s enemies called Him a winebibber (a wine drinker), the original word is oinopotes; from oinos, wine and potes, a drinker. When the word oinos (wine) is used in Scripture it means wine in its fermented or unfermented state; but when it is compounded with potes to produce oinopotes, a wine drinker, it always means a drinker of alcoholic wine.

In our opening text Jesus refutes the false accusations of His enemies by saying, “But wisdom is justified of all her children.” The Amplified Bible states:

Yet wisdom is vindicated [shown to be true and divine] by all her children [that is, by their life, character and deeds.] (Luke 7:35)

Ther original word translated “justified” is dikaioo, which primarily means, “to be deemed to be right.” Jesus was therefore saying that the accusations aimed at Him by His enemies that He was a glutton and a wine drinker were false. And that He would be vindicated or shown to be right by the lives of His children or disciples.

Christ’s statement was correct because we read earlier in Acts 2:13, His disciples were accused of being drunk with new wine (sweet grape juice). This however was not a literal accusation but mockery. This was because it was known that the disciples of Christ did not drink intoxicating wine.

We can thus see clearly from the scriptures, that Christ, who is the personification of Wisdom, was not a wine drinker, and He all but states it word for word!
... taken from HBSMN's post found here

I don't think Tim asked from Campbell's book...I think he asked from Scripture...

 

[mcdirector]

But obviously holding an age-old fascination.

Cute little sign there btw.

 

[kubel]

I understood they gave Jesus this alcohol to be evil, can't see any other motive, even if it was custom. They would have still offered the water to cure his thirst, as a spounge with alcohol won't do it.
Jesus cried thirst, yet instead of water, he got something that would burn like fire squeezed from a sponge all over the wounds on his mouth and lips.

But being on a sponge, he would have had to make some effort to drink of it- because the Bible says he received it. I think Christ drank it, knowing it would not be the best drink out there, but that it was something to at least quench his thirst nonetheless.

 

[Linda64]

Are you able to prove everywhere "sandals" is used in the Bible, it means something that is worn on the feet?

Apples and oranges, webdog

 

[Joe]

Let me give you a fictitious statement, and you tell me what the highlighted is referring to...

"My grandfather never rode a Harley or smoked weed, and you said he's nuts. I ride and smoke and you say "look, here is a Hell's angel and pot head".

Can ride and smoke in context really refer to anything BUT riding a harley and smoking weed? Can you honestly say riding is referring to riding a roller coaster...and smoking is referring to smoking a ham?

No, it's not referring to smoking a ham. I agree with you.

The smoking is referring to the smoke coming from a cigarette, now what kind of cigarette, I don't know. That's as far as I can go.
I don't know because he was riding a Harley and I probably couldn't tell unless I stared real close to see how he was holding the cigarette, whether he held the inhale for a few seconds longer, then let it out slower than usual.
And If he coughed a little after, that might help me decide. Or if a bong was used, then I would assume it was weed.



Imho, Christ thought it was water, that is why he drank it kubel.

 

[TCGreek]

Christ’s statement was correct because we read earlier in Acts 2:13, His disciples were accused of being drunk with new wine (sweet grape juice). This however was not a literal accusation but mockery. This was because it was known that the disciples of Christ did not drink intoxicating wine.

But even if we were to go with this quote, Campbell's deduction is wanting.

1. Where is it known in Scripture that the disciples of Christ did not drink intoxicating wine?

2. Campbell has made quite a leap here without establishing in Scripture what he affirmed about the disciples.