Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
Emphasis mine. But isn't that complete contrary to what you're defending here? They have no choice according to Calvinism.
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With thanks to SavedByMercy for defending Calvinsm
- Thread starter BobRyan
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Emphasis mine. But isn't that complete contrary to what you're defending here? They have no choice according to Calvinism.
People sometimes have a way of wording an assessment, which can push further than how their mind actually processes it.
Having once been a Calvinist, I understand the phrase "Calvinism is the gospel" and how it can be said in a way that does not necessarily condemn non-Calvinists to hell.
What is meant is that the gospel is best expressed in the TULIP. May not seem like much of a distinction to a non-Calvinist, but there is a difference.
Having once been a Calvinist, I understand the phrase "Calvinism is the gospel" and how it can be said in a way that does not necessarily condemn non-Calvinists to hell.
What is meant is that the gospel is best expressed in the TULIP. May not seem like much of a distinction to a non-Calvinist, but there is a difference.
convicted1
Guest
No, not in the least. All men all required to repent(Acts 17:30), and repentance is a gift of God, yet not all will receive this gift, Brother SW.
The command for us, "Be ye holy even as I am holy", applies to everyone. Yet, none of us can attain this status. Yet we're still commanded to be holy, and God holds us to it, too.
God commanded the Jews to keep the Law, knew they couldn't, and they died when they broke the Law.
Precisely why I can no longer subscribe to Reformed Roman Catholicism in either form, Calvinist or Arminian.
Read Hebrews 7-10 alongside Leviticus 16, and discover how much better a ministry came with Christ. If the Holy Spirit has regenerated you, then you have become the righteousness of God (2Cor 5:21).
There's nothing "credited" about the washing of regeneration. The blood of Christ clesanses of all sin. By His stripes we have been healed.
Not credited with a healing - lol
PreachTony
Active Member
And this is the biggest issue I have with the Calvinist position. Man is required by God to repent, and repentance is a gift of God, therefore God must give us the gift in order for us to repent, yet God withholds the gift from some people, while still requiring them to repent, and He then punishes them for failing to do something He never allowed them to do in the first place.
How can you logically and objectively hold someone accountable for "freely rejecting" Jesus (as you stated in the second Calvinist sermon thread, C1) when that man never had the option/choice to "freely accept" Christ? The ability to "freely reject", by reason of logic, necessitates the ability to "freely accept." One cannot exist without the other. Otherwise you have to state that man never had the option to reject or accept Christ, meaning man never had any will of his own at any time.
So if fallen man is bound by a sin nature to always reject God unless God moves within him and enables/regenerates him unto belief, then is it safe to say that pre-fall man, Adam in the Garden, was of the opposite nature? After all, it is by reason of the fall that we are separated from God, so it stands to reason that pre-fall we were not separated from God. If Man has no will of his own, how did Adam choose to sin in the Garden? How was Job found to be perfect and upright if his sin nature should have rendered him as lowly as everyone else?
savedbymercy
New Member
Thats error, Only the Elect , those who have remission of sins are commanded to repent ! In the Gospel, Repentance is based upon Remission of sins Lk 24:47
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Repentance and Remission or Forgiveness of sins were given to Israel, God's Elect of all Nations Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 11:18 ! Thats statement that Rerpentance is a Gift but all men wont receive it is a lie, nowhere is that stated ! Its not a offer, its a Gift given in the New Birth !
And again, Repentance is only commanded in view of already having with it Remission of sins through the Death of Christ, which all men dont have since Christ did not die for all men without exception !
PreachTony
Active Member
Here's the verse C1 quoted:
I've bolded part of it that really seems to indicate that it is ALL men EVERYWHERE who are commanded to repent. Nowhere in that verse does it say only the Elect are commanded to repent.Acts 17:30 said:
You are very quick to label a fellow BB member a liar, SBM. Just because you don't agree with someone does not mean you get the right to toss around accusations like that.
Crazy ....isn't it?
savedbymercy
New Member
The command to be ye holy as I am holy doesn't apply to all without exception, it cannot apply to the unregenerate ! Rev 22:11 !
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
True, but all the BB rules in this forum and their enforcement went out the window a while ago.....
The Archangel
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
I most certainly did not "waffle."
Belief in and adherence to TULIP does not determine salvation. It never has and it never will.
The Archangel
PreachTony
Active Member
Which is only works if you adopt a Calvinist, or even hyper-Calvinist, point of view on the scriptures and say that every occurrence of "all" or "all men" or "the world" in the scripture doesn't actually mean "all" or "all men" or "the world," but instead simply means "the Elect."
She thinks you are lost and going to hell so what difference does it make?
True. Sometimes it's best just to recognize a "about to beat my head against the wall" moment, and just resist the temptation
convicted1
Guest
FYI, SBM is a HE and not a SHE guys....
convicted1
Guest
You are a hyper...check that....warped-speed drive Calvinist....
Not taking sides...but this does hold "some" weight.
convicted1
Guest
Now you're gotting it.....
God commanded all of Israel, all those that were led out of Egypt to keep the whole Law, and those that didn't would die. Did He know they couldn't, yet still held them to the standards laid out in the Law? Yes. The same goes for today. We are commanded to repent, yet not everyone has that ability, but they're still responsible. We are commanded to be holy even as He is holy. Are any of us able to meet that standard? No. Yet, we're still commanded to be so.
Look, as soon as Adam, after the fall, heard God's voice calling to him, he and Eve fled like scared rabbits. They had been in communion with God prior to that, yet that time, they fled. That's the way people are nowadays. They are running from Him. They want nothing to do with Him....
"And this is the judgment, that the light hath come to the world, and men did love the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil; for every one who is doing wicked things hateth the light, and doth not come unto the light, that his works may not be detected; but he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought."(John 3:19-21 YLT)
Here's a prime example of what I am conveying. People want nothing to do with the Light, because their works are evil. You and I were that way once as well. Unless God overcomes that, they will remain that way.
Adam was in communion with God prior to the fall. I believed he daily communed with God. But when they fell, they saw their nakedness and tried to cover it up. People still are trying to do that to this very day.
Man does have a will of his own, it's called self-will. They do that which pleases "self". The will is bound by its nature.
PreachTony
Active Member
Do you then believe the ability to keep the Law was a "gift from God" same as repentance?
If you do (which would be a consistent position for the Jew and the Gentile), then you are still left with God requiring us to do something He is actively prohibiting us from doing, and then punishing us for not doing what He is keeping us from doing. Is that really and truly the God you see revealed in the scriptures?
(By the by, I'm not saying any of this in a snarky or sarcastic tone, C1. I really like discussing this topic with you. Unlike some people I've come across [and unlike I myself can be from time to time] you're seem willing to have civil and clear discussion. I appreciate that.)
PreachTony
Active Member
Side note: I prefer the "Mel Brooks's Spaceballs" approach. He's not a "hyper-Calvinist" or even a "warped-speed Calvinist;" he's a "ludicrous Calvinist." :smilewinkgrin: