Women preachers

[jaigner]

Watch out the theological liberals, and the seeker friendly types like to re-interpret the Bible to fit into their man made doctrines! No one who reads the Bible for all its worth can come away from it thinking that women can teach and preach in the church.

What are you talking about? Nobody here's doing that. I'm not a theological liberal and I'm definitely not a seeker-sensitive type. Nobody is re-interpreting anything except what needs to be re-interpreted in light of the gospel.

And your last line is complete bullcrap. You are alienating many countless evangelical scholars who are committed to the authority of Scripture, including people like Gordon Fee, who wrote the book How to Read the Bible for All It's Worth.

 

[evangelist6589]

What are you talking about? Nobody here's doing that. I'm not a theological liberal and I'm definitely not a seeker-sensitive type. Nobody is re-interpreting anything except what needs to be re-interpreted in light of the gospel.

And your last line is complete bullcrap. You are alienating many countless evangelical scholars who are committed to the authority of Scripture, including people like Gordon Fee, who wrote the book How to Read the Bible for All It's Worth.

I have that book. He makes good points but is completely wrong in this area. Scholars? Go to the site www.cbmw.org and read what those scholars have to say.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1581348061/?tag=baptis04-20

 

[freeatlast]

What are you talking about? Nobody here's doing that. I'm not a theological liberal and I'm definitely not a seeker-sensitive type. Nobody is re-interpreting anything except what needs to be re-interpreted in light of the gospel.

And your last line is complete bullcrap. You are alienating many countless evangelical scholars who are committed to the authority of Scripture, including people like Gordon Fee, who wrote the book How to Read the Bible for All It's Worth.

The best way to read the bible is just believe what it says instead of changing what it says to fit what you believe. Also you will saved all that money and time on those books that lead people astray.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I have to wonder if the Bible forbids a woman to preach in a street evangelism context... What do you say?

It doesn't matter what I say. The Bible is clear by example that it is not a problem.

In Acts 1:14, both men and women are identified as being in the upper room, devoting themselves to prayer and waiting for the Spirit.

In Acts 2:3-4, every person in the upper room (men and women) received the "tongue of fire" (whatever that is) and began to speak in other tongues in a very public way to the crowds gathered for Pentecost.

There are other examples of women speaking for God throughout the scriptures, including the women who encountered the empty tomb and the resurrected Jesus. Phillip the Evangelist also had four daughters who prophesied (Acts 21:9).

 

[jaigner]

I have that book. He makes good points but is completely wrong in this area. Scholars? Go to the site www.cbmw.org and read what those scholars have to say.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1581348061/?tag=baptis04-20

I've read their stuff. I even studied under some of them in graduate school. Some of them are ridiculous, but some of them are very fine scholars. I don't buy it, though. I'm convicted otherwise; in fact, I think it is more of a stretch to say the Bible limits female participation at all.

Here's the thing - there are Protestant liberal scholars who try to make the Bible say what they want. There are also evangelicals who, honestly, are convinced that the Bible's witness in this area is that women should not be limited. They are not massaging the text, they are interpreting as they feel the Spirit lead.

 

[JesusFan]

I've read their stuff. I even studied under some of them in graduate school. Some of them are ridiculous, but some of them are very fine scholars. I don't buy it, though. I'm convicted otherwise; in fact, I think it is more of a stretch to say the Bible limits female participation at all.

Here's the thing - there are Protestant liberal scholars who try to make the Bible say what they want. There are also evangelicals who, honestly, are convinced that the Bible's witness in this area is that women should not be limited. They are not massaging the text, they are interpreting as they feel the Spirit lead.

the ONE area though that it seems the Bible is quite clear about/on is that while women "might" be permitted to be evangelists/missionaries/teaching in some capacity/deaconess etc

Due to pauline theology of spiritual headship in church...
Men ARE to set up as being "chief/head authority" within local church setting, so would ONLY be the Elders/pastors!

 

[jaigner]

the ONE area though that it seems the Bible is quite clear about/on is that while women "might" be permitted to be evangelists/missionaries/teaching in some capacity/deaconess etc

Due to pauline theology of spiritual headship in church...
Men ARE to set up as being "chief/head authority" within local church setting, so would ONLY be the Elders/pastors!

Again, dude, that's your interpretation. Many scholars, who are just as committed to their faith and biblical inspiration and the work of the Spirit, disagree. You are asserting your opinion on a non-essential of the faith as undeniable fact, which it certainly isn't.

Look, I'm nearly positive I'm right about this issue, but, as with any non-essential, there is the possibility that I'm wrong. You need to take the same stance with your interpretation. I'm sure you are quite confident in it, but there is the possibility that you're wrong.

The best evangelical scholars, both complementarian and egalitarian, admit that this is not an easy, cut-and-dry issue. The texts are difficult, small in number, and very brief. The cultural context of the day clouds the issue. The best we can do is take the information we have, do our best to ascertain what the text is actually saying and to whom, and prayerfully and carefully draw our conclusions.

It's the same thing with any number of issues.

 

[JesusFan]

Again, dude, that's your interpretation. Many scholars, who are just as committed to their faith and biblical inspiration and the work of the Spirit, disagree. You are asserting your opinion on a non-essential of the faith as undeniable fact, which it certainly isn't.

Look, I'm nearly positive I'm right about this issue, but, as with any non-essential, there is the possibility that I'm wrong. You need to take the same stance with your interpretation. I'm sure you are quite confident in it, but there is the possibility that you're wrong.

The best evangelical scholars, both complementarian and egalitarian, admit that this is not an easy, cut-and-dry issue. The texts are difficult, small in number, and very brief. The cultural context of the day clouds the issue. The best we can do is take the information we have, do our best to ascertain what the text is actually saying and to whom, and prayerfully and carefully draw our conclusions.

It's the same thing with any number of issues.

Do we have ANY biblical examples of a local assembly havingwomen in leadershippositions such as elder/pastor in it?

As we still have to have the Bible establish what was permitted back in times of the Apostles, as that would be the norm, not just historical considerations!

 

[freeatlast]

Again, dude, that's your interpretation. Many scholars, who are just as committed to their faith and biblical inspiration and the work of the Spirit, disagree. You are asserting your opinion on a non-essential of the faith as undeniable fact, which it certainly isn't.

Look, I'm nearly positive I'm right about this issue, but, as with any non-essential, there is the possibility that I'm wrong. You need to take the same stance with your interpretation. I'm sure you are quite confident in it, but there is the possibility that you're wrong.

The best evangelical scholars, both complementarian and egalitarian, admit that this is not an easy, cut-and-dry issue. The texts are difficult, small in number, and very brief. The cultural context of the day clouds the issue. The best we can do is take the information we have, do our best to ascertain what the text is actually saying and to whom, and prayerfully and carefully draw our conclusions.

It's the same thing with any number of issues.

There is one thing about faith. It does not require an opinion, just belief in what is written and obediance.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

 

[jaigner]

Do we have ANY biblical examples of a local assembly havingwomen in leadershippositions such as elder/pastor in it?

As we still have to have the Bible establish what was permitted back in times of the Apostles, as that would be the norm, not just historical considerations!

Not to be rude, but sometimes your syntax and grammar is very difficult to read. The last sentence of yours doesn't even make sense.

It doesn't matter as much that we have biblical examples. Remember, women were treated as property. It was a moot point to those cultures. The Bible speaks of men in leadership because, frankly, the culture would not have even considered having a female in leadership, since she was little more than property, even in the 1st century. God works with fallen people in fallen cultures to accomplish his will.

 

[jaigner]

There is one thing about faith. It does not require an opinion, just belief in what is written and obediance.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Nobody (in their right mind) is going to take the opinion of one little fundamentalist who consistently argues against the best in evangelical scholarship. Thanks for your input, but you're so far out in left field, you have to wear reflective clothing.

 

[jaigner]

As we still have to have the Bible establish what was permitted back in times of the Apostles, as that would be the norm, not just historical considerations!

If I were you, I would read several books just to gain a little perspective here:

Finally Feminist by John Stackhouse, a wonderful Regent professor (the REAL Regent, not the Pat Robertson one)

Beyond Sex Roles by Gilbert Bilezikian, former Wheaton College professor

Slaves, Women, and Homosexuals by William Webb

 

[JesusFan]

Not to be rude, but sometimes your syntax and grammar is very difficult to read. The last sentence of yours doesn't even make sense.

It doesn't matter as much that we have biblical examples. Remember, women were treated as property. It was a moot point to those cultures. The Bible speaks of men in leadership because, frankly, the culture would not have even considered having a female in leadership, since she was little more than property, even in the 1st century. God works with fallen people in fallen cultures to accomplish his will.

The wy that the Lord istructed through the Apostle regarding leadership in the local body though was NOT to be just accomdating to those times, but was/is to be seen as being normitive going forward!

Was indeed some things that were transistional in that time period, some to historical situations, but this area of spiritual leadership was NOT one of them!

 

[Jerome]

Men ARE to set up as being "chief/head authority" within local church setting

Perhaps you meant to say that Scripture sets Christ in that position?

Eph. 5:23 Christ is head of the church
Col. 1:18 He is the head of the body, the church

 

[Greektim]

Perhaps you meant to say that Scripture sets Christ in that position?

Eph. 5:23 Christ is head of the church
Col. 1:18 He is the head of the body, the church

Good correction.

 

[Jerome]

That's pretty much Baptist 101.

Southern Baptist Convention—About Us—Basic Beliefs:

Jesus Christ is the head of the local church - we are not.

 

[JesusFan]

Good correction.

yes, and He is the one who sets up male leadership as the model for local church!

 

[JesusFan]

If I were you, I would read several books just to gain a little perspective here:

Finally Feminist by John Stackhouse, a wonderful Regent professor (the REAL Regent, not the Pat Robertson one)

Beyond Sex Roles by Gilbert Bilezikian, former Wheaton College professor

Slaves, Women, and Homosexuals by William Webb

are they part of the current movenment to water down what the scriptures teach, and to bring "feminism" into the church?

Agree that men and women are inherintly equal before God, as both made in His image, but the Bible still does teach subordination in roles/position...

Model is the trinity...

All 3 are really equal, as all share very essense of God, are God, yet there is still subordination and headship!

 

[jaigner]

are they part of the current movenment to water down what the scriptures teach, and to bring "feminism" into the church?/QUOTE]

Have you listened to anything I've said? All 3 of these individuals are evangelicals. They believe the Bible to be authoritative and would not, not even for a minute, toy with the idea of "watering down" what the Bible teaches. And they are much better equipped to adequately exegete the text than you or I.

Feminism didn't begin with the tragic thinking of the 60s. It's a movement way, way older that seeks to restore women into the rightful place that their Creator placed them originally.

The trinitarian argument for male headship is bogus. I'm not touching that at all.

Dude, I think maybe you need to stop talking so much around here and start listening a little bit better.

 

[mandym]

The term Evangelical in no way implies or assures that one has a solid biblical world view. In fact in fact I believe Rob Bell and tony Campolo would call themselves evangelicals.