Women, Stop Submitting to Men

[DaChaser1]

As I posted more than once on this thread, I am in agreement with the thinking behind the article and as Annisi has listed (with a slight modification by me).

I highlight the part of the article that spells out the danger of submission by a wife to the authority of any but the husband - especially that of pastoral authority.

I don't find that submission Scriptural.

If the pastor is to bring a woman who is married into alignment with some agenda, then it must take place THROUGH the husband. The preacher should never presume to have authority within the home of any family other than his own.

BOTH men and women in a local church accountible to the spiritual authorities ordained of God, pastors /elders etc, ONLY as much as those would be obeying Word of God!

NO mandate for the wife to submit to those authorities in any fashion different than the men there, and submission would be to her husband only in the specific sense!

 

[annsni]

Have any of the posters on this thread actually read the article put forth in the OP? If so, you will see that the article plainly states that women are to submit to their own husbands and not to all men in general. There is a HUGE difference.

I thought it was a very good article, and true. I am to submit to God and my dh--not just any man who happens to come along to tell me what to do.

So, getting this thread on track with the OP, do you or don't you agree with the article?

Yep - My first response on the thread agreed with the article.

 

[annsni]

I Tim. 2:12, Young's Literal Translation:
and a woman I do not suffer to teach, nor to rule a husband, but to be in quietness,

Correct, this is about marriage dynamics, not the wife's interaction with either John Doe or Joe Churchman.

Paul is telling wives not to "school"/be domineering towards their husbands.

That is one translation's interpretation of the word but the word does not just mean "husband". Here are some verses that use the same word:

Matthew 7:24 (also verse 26) "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:"

Matthew 12:41 "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here."

James 1:20 "For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God."

 

[Aaron]

Have any of the posters on this thread actually read the article put forth in the OP?

Yep. It was hogwash.

 

[gb93433]

Ok, ok, GB, you got me. The husband absolutely must submit to any sexy proposition from his hot woman. That's all the verse means. And any man who doesn't want to submit to that really has some submission issues!

My point is that is a case where the husband does not have authority. I think scripture balances things so well. When one looks at Eph. 5:22 "Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord." The condition is "as to the Lord. When I was a kid my dad would put hand something to me and tell me to put it my pocket. In every case I refused. My first responsibility was to do what was right not what my dad wanted. That is the same case with a wife. If in every case a wife was to submit to her husband we would have some wives going into a cult when their husband did.

 

[gb93433]

BOTH men and women in a local church accountible to the spiritual authorities ordained of God, pastors /elders etc, ONLY as much as those would be obeying Word of God!!

Are you sure they are always ordained of God or in a number of cases ordained of man. It is easy to tell by what they say and the passion they have.

 

[Jerome]

Annsni, you might try looking right at the verses right after I Tim. 2:12 rather than in some remote passage. Paul demonstrates exactly what what he meant by immediately bringing up Eve and her relationship to her husband Adam.

 

[DaChaser1]

Are you sure they are always ordained of God or in a number of cases ordained of man. It is easy to tell by what they say and the passion they have.

the roles of a pastor/elder/deacon etc are all ordained by God in a local church, its just that the individuals in those positions may or may not be obeying God!

 

[freeatlast]

Those of us who hold to so-called “traditional gender roles” are often assumed to believe that women should submit to men. This isn’t true.

Indeed, a primary problem in our culture and in our churches isn’t that women aren’t submissive enough to men, but instead that they are far too submissive.

First of all, it just isn’t so that women are called to submit while men are not. In Scripture, every creature is called to submit, often in different ways and at different times. Children are to submit to their parents, although this is certainly a different sort of submission than that envisioned for marriage.

Church members are to submit to faithful pastors (Heb. 13:17). All of us are to submit to the governing authorities (Rom. 13:1-7; 1 Pet. 2:13-17). Of course, we are all to submit, as creatures, to our God (Jas. 4:7).


The rest of the story is at http://www.churchleaders.com/pastor...er&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily-Update

Wives are to submit to their husbands even as unto the Lord.

 

[DaChaser1]

Wives are to submit to their husbands even as unto the Lord.

Also remember the other side though, rarely gets quoted, as the Husband is to love his wife as Chrsit loved the Church!

 

[gb93433]

the roles of a pastor/elder/deacon etc are all ordained by God in a local church, its just that the individuals in those positions may or may not be obeying God!

How many pastors do you know personally who graduated seminary who keep up their Greek studies? If they did then their knowledge would be increasing and it would show in their preaching.

 

[freeatlast]

Also remember the other side though, rarely gets quoted, as the Husband is to love his wife as Chrsit loved the Church!

That was not the topic of the OP.

 

[DaChaser1]

How many pastors do you know personally who graduated seminary who keep up their Greek studies? If they did then their knowledge would be increasing and it would show in their preaching.

was just refering to those pastors who are in it to fleece the sheep, doing their own things, are really hirelings!

 

[Jerome]

That is one translation's interpretation of the word but the word does not just mean "husband".

In this particular passage whatever do you think it means other than her man (husband)?

It is not just Young's Literal; Bibles have noted the meaning, from Wycliffe: "the hosebond", all the way to to NIV: "her husband".

 

[gb93433]

In this particular passage whatever do you think it means other than her man (husband)?

It is not just Young's Literal; Bibles have noted the meaning, from Wycliffe: "the hosebond", all the way to to NIV: "her husband".

There is no genitive and definite article. Most of the NT uses Hebrew phraseology and in this case it does not mean the husband, the man, the woman of a man, but a man.

 

[Jerome]

Or as Young's Literal puts it: "a husband" [which was mentioned several posts ago btw].

 

[agedman]

BOTH men and women in a local church accountible to the spiritual authorities ordained of God, pastors /elders etc, ONLY as much as those would be obeying Word of God!

NO mandate for the wife to submit to those authorities in any fashion different than the men there, and submission would be to her husband only in the specific sense!

Nope, your mistaken.

The husband, as the head and final authority of the home is ultimately responsible for the protection and care of the home.

Therefore, it is never the place of a pastor or any church leader to assume such a position that the husband is displaced.

Even if the husband was not a believer.

The home is a earthly picture of the relationship of Christ to the church. I don't think anyone would dare replace Christ as the authority figure over his home and bride.

 

[gb93433]

Or as Young's Literal puts it: "a husband" [which was mentioned several posts ago btw].

in 1 Tim. 2:12 Young's is wrong.

 

[agedman]

There is no genitive and definite article. Most of the NT uses Hebrew phraseology and in this case it does not mean the husband, the man, the woman of a man, but a man.

Where did you get that information?????

Most of the Old Testament was in Hebrew.

BUT most of the New Testament original writings were in GREEK!

I can see it now. According to you, the early Ephesian, Galatian, and Corinthian churches would hire a Hebrew scholar to read the letters of Paul.

No, Paul read and wrote in Greek as well as his traveling companion, Dr. Luke who wrote two books of the New Testament.

 

[agedman]

in 1 Tim. 2:12 Young's is wrong.

1Ti 2:12 But <de> I suffer <epitrepo> not <ou> a woman <gune> to teach <didasko> nor <oude> to usurp authority <authenteo> over the man <aner>, but <alla> to be <einai> in <en> silence <hesuchia>.


It means the same in Greek as it does in English.

Young merely moves about the sentence word order.