Women, Stop Submitting to Men

[gb93433]

Where did you get that information?????

Most of the Old Testament was in Hebrew.

BUT most of the New Testament original writings were in GREEK!

All of the Bible was written by Jews with the possible exception of Luke. Greek was their second language. Even Jesus spoke Aramaic and Greek was His second language. If you examine the Greek NT you will notice that there is much Hebrew word order. If you use a Greek concordance and take a look at each case that uses the same word you find patterns that are like Hebrew phraseology.

The same thing happens for one who is learning English as their second language.

I can see it now. According to you, the early Ephesian, Galatian, and Corinthian churches would hire a Hebrew scholar to read the letters of Paul.

No, Paul read and wrote in Greek as well as his traveling companion, Dr. Luke who wrote two books of the New Testament.

That is your assumption not mine.

 

[agedman]

All of the Bible was written by Jews with the possible exception of Luke. Greek was their second language. Even Jesus spoke Aramaic and Greek was His second language. If you examine the Greek NT you will notice that there is much Hebrew word order. If you use a Greek concordance and take a look at each case that uses the same word you find patterns that are like Hebrew phraseology.

The same thing happens for one who is learning English as their second language.

That is your assumption not mine.

Being the "second language" has nothing to do with it. You state they were written in Hebrew, and the Pauline letters most definitely were not.

Hebrew word order has very little to do with discerning what the letters said if they were written in Greek.

I worked for years with educated folks who were ESL multilingual. Never was there a problem with "word order" when they wrote in either their native or other languages.

I am certain that Paul was (as Peter stated) about as highly educated as a scholar could be in his day. As such, he knew the languages, and because the very God in heaven was the inspiration, do you really consider there would be any word order problems?

All the church letters were written to Greek speaking assemblies, Paul would not have written them in Hebrew.

John was the pastor of the most prominent Greek speaking church (Ephesus) and would not write to them in Hebrew.

Luke was a Greek speaking, non-Hebrew, doctor of medicine, and was the scribe for much of Paul's writings - He would not write in Hebrew.

Timothy, Titus, Philemon were all Greek speaking. The letters would not have been written in Hebrew.

The Revelation was written to Greek speaking congregations, John would not have written it in Hebrew.

So what does that leave?

Matthew, Mark, and ... That's about all.

You have been totally misinformed if you hold that the NT was written primarily in Hebrew.

 

[DaChaser1]

Nope, your mistaken.

The husband, as the head and final authority of the home is ultimately responsible for the protection and care of the home.

Therefore, it is never the place of a pastor or any church leader to assume such a position that the husband is displaced.

Even if the husband was not a believer.

The home is a earthly picture of the relationship of Christ to the church. I don't think anyone would dare replace Christ as the authority figure over his home and bride.

I think that you took what I wrote by mistake!

I was saying that both males/females accountible to be obeying the appointed spiritual authorites while in the church, but that she is ONLY accountible to her own Husband in every affairs!

So 2 different "headships" in play here, as there is the 'common" one to all believers to being submission to their appointed spiritual authorites, while wife to be submissive to hus, and Hus to love her as per the Bible!

 

[gb93433]

Wives are to submit to their husbands even as unto the Lord.

The condition is as unto the Lord. Why would God expects and absolute submission of a wife and not in other areas of life.

Hebrews 13:17 "Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you."

Acts 5:29, "But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men."

 

[abcgrad94]

The husband, as the head and final authority of the home is ultimately responsible for the protection and care of the home.

Therefore, it is never the place of a pastor or any church leader to assume such a position that the husband is displaced.

Even if the husband was not a believer.

The home is a earthly picture of the relationship of Christ to the church. I don't think anyone would dare replace Christ as the authority figure over his home and bride.

Amen! Being a pastor, deacon, or just "male" doesn't give any man the right to overstep a husband's headship. I've been in several churches where the men thought it was their job to boss the women in general. That's just wrong.

I saw Annsni's response, but not yours, agedman. Guess I overlooked it in the many pages of this thread.

 

[DaChaser1]

Amen! Being a pastor, deacon, or just "male" doesn't give any man the right to overstep a husband's headship. I've been in several churches where the men thought it was their job to boss the women in general. That's just wrong.

I saw Annsni's response, but not yours, agedman. Guess I overlooked it in the many pages of this thread.

Christians called by god to submitt to the spiritual authorities over them, as long as those authorities are submitting to God themselves!

that is church submission, there is also the submission of wives/husbands to each other, and first of all to Christ Himself!

Both submit to Him, and makes it much easier to mutual submit to each other!

 

[agedman]

I think that you took what I wrote by mistake!

I was saying that both males/females accountible to be obeying the appointed spiritual authorites while in the church, but that she is ONLY accountible to her own Husband in every affairs!

So 2 different "headships" in play here, as there is the 'common" one to all believers to being submission to their appointed spiritual authorites, while wife to be submissive to hus, and Hus to love her as per the Bible!

I will clarify, so that those who might be casual readers will understand.

Perhaps, because I have had to deal with so very many situations in which spiritual leaders wrecked homes of members of the assembly, I put a lot of emphasis upon the husband's significant role.

The wife is to have only one "leader" (other than Christ) in her life, that is the husband.

If there is a problem that an assemblies spiritual leader is to "correct" or "give personal guidance" or whatever to the wife of another man, it MUST go through the husband of that wife.

NO spiritual leader ever has any business messing with the home of another believer!

NO spiritual leader ever has any business counseling the wife of another believer!

Some might say that a wife should be able to seek counseling from the pastor. NO!!! Paul said that the older women were to guide and be counselors to the younger.


I will go further than even that!


I sat across the desk from a man who found his wife and a pastor in an inappropriate relationship. I inquired how it started. "With a hug after church one Sunday morning." It was all so very sad. Paul said, "It is good for a man not to touch a woman."

Spiritual leaders who go about greeting the wives and young ladies in the assembly with hugs and other displays of affection are treading on very dangerous ground. If I were their wife, it would not be tolerated! If I were an older woman in the assembly I would actively counsel the younger to beware and keep distance.

If I were the head pastor, it would not be tolerated.

 

[DaChaser1]

I will clarify, so that those who might be casual readers will understand.

Perhaps, because I have had to deal with so very many situations in which spiritual leaders wrecked homes of members of the assembly, I put a lot of emphasis upon the husband's significant role.

The wife is to have only one "leader" (other than Christ) in her life, that is the husband.

If there is a problem that an assemblies spiritual leader is to "correct" or "give personal guidance" or whatever to the wife of another man, it MUST go through the husband of that wife.

NO spiritual leader ever has any business messing with the home of another believer!

NO spiritual leader ever has any business counseling the wife of another believer!

Some might say that a wife should be able to seek counseling from the pastor. NO!!! Paul said that the older women were to guide and be counselors to the younger.


I will go further than even that!


I sat across the desk from a man who found his wife and a pastor in an inappropriate relationship. I inquired how it started. "With a hug after church one Sunday morning." It was all so very sad. Paul said, "It is good for a man not to touch a woman."

Spiritual leaders who go about greeting the wives and young ladies in the assembly with hugs and other displays of affection are treading on very dangerous ground. If I were their wife, it would not be tolerated! If I were an older woman in the assembly I would actively counsel the younger to beware and keep distance.

If I were the head pastor, it would not be tolerated.

When I refer spiritual authority submission though, JUST means as reagrding obey those over you in the Lord, in the area of church doctrines/practices etc

NOT giving them ANY additional authority to go into "family/personal life!"

 

[MB]

I will clarify, so that those who might be casual readers will understand.

Perhaps, because I have had to deal with so very many situations in which spiritual leaders wrecked homes of members of the assembly, I put a lot of emphasis upon the husband's significant role.

The wife is to have only one "leader" (other than Christ) in her life, that is the husband.

If there is a problem that an assemblies spiritual leader is to "correct" or "give personal guidance" or whatever to the wife of another man, it MUST go through the husband of that wife.

NO spiritual leader ever has any business messing with the home of another believer!

NO spiritual leader ever has any business counseling the wife of another believer!

Some might say that a wife should be able to seek counseling from the pastor. NO!!! Paul said that the older women were to guide and be counselors to the younger.


I will go further than even that!


I sat across the desk from a man who found his wife and a pastor in an inappropriate relationship. I inquired how it started. "With a hug after church one Sunday morning." It was all so very sad. Paul said, "It is good for a man not to touch a woman."

Spiritual leaders who go about greeting the wives and young ladies in the assembly with hugs and other displays of affection are treading on very dangerous ground. If I were their wife, it would not be tolerated! If I were an older woman in the assembly I would actively counsel the younger to beware and keep distance.

If I were the head pastor, it would not be tolerated.

I agree with you on this. Some pastors are taking advantage of our wifes and children. I see it in the news all the time and it isn't just Catholic priest, but Pastors of Baptist churches as well.
MB

 

[gb93433]

NO spiritual leader ever has any business messing with the home of another believer!

One of the jobs of the leaders of a congregation is to intervene when there are troubles in the home of a member and they need help. They are responsible for the spiritual oversight of the congregation.

NO spiritual leader ever has any business counseling the wife of another believer.

Hoiw about women counseling women

 

[agedman]

One of the jobs of the leaders of a congregation is to intervene when there are troubles in the home of a member and they need help. They are responsible for the spiritual oversight of the congregation.

Hoiw about women counseling women

I answered both your conditions in the post above, but will repeat in case you missed it.

The wife is to have only one "leader" (other than Christ) in her life, that is the husband.

If there is a problem that an assemblies spiritual leader is to "correct" or "give personal guidance" or whatever to the wife of another man, it MUST go through the husband of that wife.

NO spiritual leader ever has any business messing with the home of another believer!

NO spiritual leader ever has any business counseling the wife of another believer!

Some might say that a wife should be able to seek counseling from the pastor. NO!!!

Paul said that the older women were to guide and be counselors to the younger.

I hope that helps you clarify the questions.

God never says that the wife is to submit to other than the husband and to Christ.

Spiritual leaders "watch over" not to correct, but to notice trends, influences, dangers... that pertain to the whole assembly. As they perform that "watching over" the wisdom of God is sought for the appropriate message to be delivered in the assembly.

 

[gb93433]

Spiritual leaders "watch over" not to correct, but to notice trends, influences, dangers... that pertain to the whole assembly. As they perform that "watching over" the wisdom of God is sought for the appropriate message to be delivered in the assembly.

Watching over may include removing someone if they fail to heed correction especially false teachers (which includes false doctrine and false living).