"Women's roles in the church"

[ChurchofChristguy]

Yep. It's amazing how emotions cause church fights.

That’s not what I’m amazed about.

 

[Walter]

I guess I am going to have to disagree with this. And by they way....it's hurtful to read stull like this. C'est la vie.

I am a sure I am not the only man here that cringed when reading his statement.

 

[Reynolds]

In the first century, women were considered completely subservient to men. Today in the Middle East and Far East, it hasn’t changed much. Paul’s words were reflective of that culture and still are.

If Christ felt that a woman wasn’t up to the task of telling the good news that Christ has risen, then why did he assign that very task specifically to a woman n the first place, immediately after he has risen? Or was that just a coincidence?

We have forever had this cockeyed view that man is superior to woman by distorting a lot of scripture. “Woman was made from man so that means man is superior.”

OK, which is more valuable: A being that was formed from dirt, or a being that was formed from a being?

The woman was created to help the man and as a bonus she was intended to attract man so that he would draw near her. That’s important stuff right there! Ever notice that women are far more beautiful than men? Or is that just a coincidence?

Culture changed. God did not change.

 

[ChurchofChristguy]

Culture changed. God did not change.

Well then, we have a multitude of problems to sort out, don’t we?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I'm not going to disagree with you about the principle, but in all honesty and sincerity - what happens when a woman is drawn to the Bible to the degree that she knows more about it and the application of it than her male Sunday School teacher, or her husband, or men in her class.

Why should many countless women who know the scriptures and understand them deeply sit under a man who barely skims the surface on Saturday night before in preparation and it shows week after week.

What are they to do? Change churches? Stop studying? Just keep sitting there and silently smiling pretending that they are being fed?

Can they teach their husbands at home? I know women who do that as their husbands don't go to church and won't go to church and their husbands have consented to participate in the bible study at home. [And the wives are praying this will lead their husbands to Christ and to the church.]

I guess what I am trying to convey it that I understand what the Bible says and have been on the Baptistboard since 2002 and am fully aware that this topic has repeated itself ad nausem for almost two decades....

...but I just want you all to be aware that there are some very smart and spiritually discerning women out there who study the Bible as if it were a treasure trove and know it very, very well and they do this out of a great desire for spiritual growth.

There's more us out there than you can imagine.

Is this referring to a form of church that does not even let women teach other women? Or teach children? That sounds just as unscriptural as women not "keeping silent" in the assembly.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Is this referring to a form of church that does not even let women teach other women? Or teach children? That sounds just as unscriptural as women not "keeping silent" in the assembly.

No. I was just trying to ask what does a woman do when she is not being fed the scriptures by a man - pastor, SS teacher, husband.... It seems we all assume that because a man [only] teaches adults that they all do it well.

It seems a huge topic that just says over and over ad nausem …"women can't teach men". But no one ever brings up what to do when the man is not teaching or not teaching well or not teaching soundly.

I'd like to just forget the whole thing and let the OP just move on. I always seem to stir up the same things every time this topic comes up.

….exit - stage right.....

 

[Van]

A little bit more on cultural accommodation. The bible ameliorates the current situation, and provides direction that points the way forward to a better future.
Slavery was addressed, but the seed was sown to treat fellow Christians as siblings, which in our culture informed our Civil War and Civil rights movements.
MLK convicted the nation using Christian values, and to this day we have a dream.

And just as those like myself who say, lets consider our view of women in the ministry, are charged with liberalism, the folks on the other side are charged with chauvinistic bias. We need more light and less heat.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

No. I was just trying to ask what does a woman do when she is not being fed the scriptures by a man - pastor, SS teacher, husband.... It seems we all assume that because a man [only] teaches adults that they all do it well.

It seems a huge topic that just says over and over ad nausem …"women can't teach men". But no one ever brings up what to do when the man is not teaching or not teaching well or not teaching soundly.

I'd like to just forget the whole thing and let the OP just move on. I always seem to stir up the same things every time this topic comes up.

….exit - stage right.....

Well, if it bothered me, I would probably try to find something to volunteer for that didn’t require my presence in that class. Understand that men can find themselves in a similar situation.

Also, I have known plenty of women in church who were more “spiritual” than me, and I’m sure they knew it too; but they never thought it their place to “instruct” me. They left that to other men, and God. To think a godly woman cannot influence men without “teaching” them is wrongheaded. God has ways.

 

[HankD]

I think the scripture is clear.

Women have a definite and perhaps even a more fruitful role in the harvest of souls with children and other women.
The gospel in the ears of children via women is very fruitful. God leaves the hard cases of vulgar men to other men.

HOWEVER (big however) As in the case of Hulda and Deborah when men abandon their responsibility given them by God (Cowardice, greed, lust, whatever) then we ought not be surprised when He shames the men by filling the breech with women.

 

[Reynolds]

I think the scripture is clear.

Women have a definite and perhaps even a more fruitful role in the harvest of souls with children and other women.
The gospel in the ears of children via women is very fruitful. God leaves the hard cases of vulgar men to other men.

HOWEVER (big however) As in the case of Hulda and Deborah when men abandon their responsibility given them by God (Cowardice, greed, lust, whatever) then we ought not be surprised when He shames the men by filling the breech with women.

But He will not call a woman to act contrary to His Word.

 

[HankD]

But He will not call a woman to act contrary to His Word.

He does whatever He pleases.

Psalm 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

 

[Reynolds]

He does whatever He pleases.

Psalm 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

God does not please to act contrary to His Word.

 

[Reynolds]

Well then, we have a multitude of problems to sort out, don’t we?

You might.

 

[ChurchofChristguy]

You might.

So your church is all squeaky clean? Women are muzzled and with head coverings I assume? I want to come see that!

 

[Reynolds]

So your church is all squeaky clean? Women are muzzled and with head coverings I assume? I want to come see that!

No, the church I go to has its issues but they are not my problem. When I left church leadership, they became someone else's problem.

 

[HankD]

God does not please to act contrary to His Word.

To make exception is NOT to act contrary

He makes the rules:

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

And then when it pleases Him, He even makes exceptions
Exodus 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

 

[Reynolds]

To make exception is NOT to act contrary

He makes the rules:

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

And then when it pleases Him, He even makes exceptions
Exodus 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

And you really think the Ark is a "graven image"?

 

[HankD]

And you really think the Ark is a "graven image"?

READ THE COMMANDMENT AGAIN.


Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

NIV Exodus 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

God makes the rules, God makes exceptions and or changes to the rules.

Read Acts chapters 10 and 15 to see how God changed the covenant rules when the gentiles were freely accepted by God. Do you eat Pork? Why did God change His mind about that?

Repeat: God makes the rules, God makes exceptions and or changes to the rules as He pleases.

 

[Reynolds]

READ THE COMMANDMENT AGAIN.

NIV Exodus 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

So, you think the Ark was an Idol?

 

[HankD]

So, you think the Ark was an Idol?

The Hebrew word is pecel literally image. So yes the cherubim were images of angelic beings.

Even pictures (art work) were forbidden under the law.
Numbers 33:52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:

God made exceptions whenever He wanted.
Numbers 21
8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.