Worship leader

[agedman]

The term "worship leader" has been a troubling term for me.

Perhaps it is not for you, but here is a short list of the problems with the term as I see it for Baptist churches.


1). It is not a Biblical office that should be leading the congregation. Only ministers (pastors, bishops, evangelists, teachers ...).

2) From the time of Sinai, worship leaders have opposed the righteousness of God in favor of idols. Even to the point of murder and riot, the worship leaders have been anti Christ. They killed the messengers of God, throughout the ages to this modern day. Baptists call their ministers - pastor, or preacher. There is significant history and rational to using those terms for the leaders of the congregation.

3). The term itself suggests that a select few are to led and the focus, that worship must conform to their script and standard. In contrast, a minister of music suggests the facilitation of other's worship journey, just as a minister of the Gospel facilitates the journey in the knowledge of the Scriptures.

4) The minister is an ordained office held by a man, but the term worship leader(s) allow anyone of any standard, gender, sexual orientation, ability, godliness,... to lead the congregation.

5) There is an elevated level of self gratification and exaltation implicit in the term, where the term, minister, has that of servant and service to others as the primary goal.

These five are enough to start a conversation, and I trust some will acknowledge they too are uncomfortable with the term worship leader, while others merely want to suggest it is a name change, only, with no real substantive change.

 

[Deacon]

It’s quite a contradictory list you’ve made.

It seem that you want the church to have standards but don’t want the standard to be so high that the person chosen stands out in any way.

Problem solved:

Get rid of the worship leaders

… and get rid of those un-ordained church secretaries and church janitors and too.

Those church secretaries are know-it-all's anyway.​

Biblical standards for a worship leader

• A Godly man between the ages of 32 and 50 (not too young, not too old)
• Approved by the leadership that I approve of
• Absolutely must be able to sing the low notes but with no facial hair
• Athletic between 150 and 175 lbs.
• Only sings the songs I like
• Loves to wave arms in time to music when in front of podium but not during prayer or when sitting or standing in the congregation
• Must own at least 2 suit jackets
• Doesn’t tolerate drums
• Available for every and all services
• Doesn’t accept payment for services rendered
• Oh yeah, and humble

Rob

 

[rlvaughn]

agedman, it would be good to define what is meant by "worship leader". It is not a term our church uses (or an office we have). I would guess in most churches the worship leader or leaders are singers or musicians who lead other singers & musicians and the congregation in the song/music service?

 

[agedman]

It’s quite a contradictory list you’ve made.

It seem that you want the church to have standards but don’t want the standard to be so high that the person chosen stands out in any way.

Problem solved:

Get rid of the worship leaders

… and get rid of those un-ordained church secretaries and church janitors and too.

Those church secretaries are know-it-all's anyway.​

Biblical standards for a worship leader

• A Godly man between the ages of 32 and 50 (not too young, not too old)
• Approved by the leadership that I approve of
• Absolutely must be able to sing the low notes but with no facial hair
• Athletic between 150 and 175 lbs.
• Only sings the songs I like
• Loves to wave arms in time to music when in front of podium but not during prayer or when sitting or standing in the congregation
• Must own at least 2 suit jackets
• Doesn’t tolerate drums
• Available for every and all services
• Doesn’t accept payment for services rendered
• Oh yeah, and humble

Rob

Are you saying that the church secretary and janitor stand before the congregation as ministers? Working for the church in such capacities as those paid for their performance may actually apply, if that is what the people desire to "lead" them. If you are admitting to such a lack, why not just higher a day laborer off the street as the worship leader? It would be less expensive.

Ministers of the gospel to the congregation must meet Biblical qualifications. Whether they minister in the capacity of the presenting the Scriptures and Scripture principles by songs, or the declaration by speaking.

There is no Biblical "song leader, or worship leader."

Where not the leaders of the OT, anointed priests and separated out by appointment as the singers/leaders?

Would this modern day be lead by lesser enlightened?

 

[agedman]

agedman, it would be good to define what is meant by "worship leader". It is not a term our church uses (or an office we have). I would guess in most churches the worship leader or leaders are singers or musicians who lead other singers & musicians and the congregation in the song/music service?

Back in the day, actual ministers were appointed to organize the music of the church.

Over the years, the most significant responsibility of the church has been given over to what is called the worship leader(s). These may be just anyone with a smudge of talent irregardless of their Scriptural qualifications.

God appointed the preaching of the gospel as his tool. He also selected exactly the qualifications of ones selected to present that gospel.

There is really no significant difference in presenting the gospel by a rhymic, melodic, and harmonic rhyming scheme, and a preacher delivering a monologue in monotone. They are both delivery methods.

Therefore, the Scriptural qualifications of all and any who stand to deliver the message of God to the people be it musician or preacher should be met.

 

[Deacon]

Sorry, my sarcasm setting is set on high today.

1. Is worship leader an office? - no, it's a position.

2. If he murders, riots, or kills a minister of God we will discipline him. If he shows a tendency toward becoming the antichrist we will dismiss him.

3. We pick music leaders from those in our small, generally untalented congregation; those with as much ability, desire, and willingness to learn as we can find. The elders/pastors don't have willingness or desire - and their ability to learn musical skills is questionable. Often it's hard to tell if honking geese are flying overhead or if someone left the pastor's mic on accidently.

Biblical song leaders are found in many of the Psalm titles.
The word is also translated: 'choirmaster, song director, director of music, chief musician, conductor'

The word used is distinctly classified along with stonecutters and porters

Solomon made 70,000 of them porters, 80,000 stonecutters in the mountains, and 3,600 supervisors to make the people work. 2 Chronicles 2:18 (CSB)​

4. Different congregations set their own standards.
Do you want to change your congregations standards? I'd suggest you form a committee, develop a budget, and present it at your next members meeting for a vote.

5. A servant is worth their wages. A good worship leader can attract many new worshipers to a congregation - a bad one can erode a congregations numbers.

Rob

 

[rlvaughn]

Back in the day, actual ministers were appointed to organize the music of the church.

I don't doubt that is correct at certain points in Baptist history. And yet I expect you would agree with me that "back in the day" is not the standard from which we derive our faith and practice.

God appointed the preaching of the gospel as his tool. He also selected exactly the qualifications of ones selected to present that gospel.

There is really no significant difference in presenting the gospel by a rhymic, melodic, and harmonic rhyming scheme, and a preacher delivering a monologue in monotone. They are both delivery methods.

Therefore, the Scriptural qualifications of all and any who stand to deliver the message of God to the people be it musician or preacher should be met.

Unlike you (if I understand what you are saying) I don't equate singing with preaching. I am a firm supporter and lover of congregational singing. I think it should present the gospel and other biblical truth accurately. But I don't see singing and preaching as the same type of ministry. Singing should be a congregational exercise in which the church worships the Lord, engages their hearts, and speaks to, teaches & admonishes one another (Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16).

 

[padredurand]

I'd let Ira Sankey be my music minister, song leader, worship leader or whatever he wanted to call himself.

 

[Salty]

Biblical song leaders are found in many of the Psalm titles.
The word is also translated: 'choirmaster, song director, director of music, chief musician, conductor' ​

So why do we call them worship leaders? Are we saying that only the music is worship?​

 

[Reynolds]

It’s quite a contradictory list you’ve made.

It seem that you want the church to have standards but don’t want the standard to be so high that the person chosen stands out in any way.

Problem solved:

Get rid of the worship leaders

… and get rid of those un-ordained church secretaries and church janitors and too.

Those church secretaries are know-it-all's anyway.​

Biblical standards for a worship leader

• A Godly man between the ages of 32 and 50 (not too young, not too old)
• Approved by the leadership that I approve of
• Absolutely must be able to sing the low notes but with no facial hair
• Athletic between 150 and 175 lbs.
• Only sings the songs I like
• Loves to wave arms in time to music when in front of podium but not during prayer or when sitting or standing in the congregation
• Must own at least 2 suit jackets
• Doesn’t tolerate drums
• Available for every and all services
• Doesn’t accept payment for services rendered
• Oh yeah, and humble

Rob

Wrong! Wrong ! Wrong! Must have a massive set of drums. It must have 2 kick drums. The drummer has to beat them like he is trying to beat through the heads. Without those drums, I don't like him and am Going to vote ginst him.

 

[annsni]

At our home campus, we have a worship pastor who is in charge of the worship teams, the tech, leading worship on Sunday, etc. Then we have worship leaders - they are not pastors but they are the "leader" of the band/team/music on that particular Sunday. They have no real authority other than to pick the songs (which can be overridden by the pastor if needed) and to pick the key and to get the musicians and singers together to practice. That's about it. I don't see an issue with calling the person the "worship leader" or whatever title you choose to use. Choir director, band director, song leader - all the same thing, essentially.

 

[TCassidy]

So why do we call them worship leaders? Are we saying that only the music is worship?​

Good point.

Worship is:

To celebrate God's presence. (Psalms 95:1 3; Revelation 4:11)

1. Two conditions of worship. (John 4:23 24)

a. Spiritual worship.

b. Truthful worship.

2. Four characteristics of worship.

a. Celebration. (Psalms 122:1)

b. Relaxation. (Matthew 11:29 30)

c. Inspiration. (Isaiah 40:31)

d. Preparation. (2 Timothy 2:2)

That, it seems to me, covers a lot more than just music.

 

[Salty]

And it seems many churches are going the way of music to get people to attend and the message
is just a minor part of the entire service.

 

[Deacon]

So why do we call them worship leaders?
Are we saying that only the music is worship?

Where I addend church the 'worship leader' begins the service.

• Worship with voice (Singing)
• Worship in adoration/supplication (Prayer)
• Worship with Word (Preaching)
• Worship with offerings (Giving)

First one up "leads".

Rob

 

[rlvaughn]

And it seems many churches are going the way of music to get people to attend and the message is just a minor part of the entire service.

I agree that it seems that is the approach of many churches. A recent Gallup poll suggests these churches may be mistaken about what people want.

"...a new Gallup poll suggests the content of the sermons could be the most important factor in how soon worshippers return." [much higher than music, rlv.]

Sermon Content Is What Appeals Most to Churchgoers

 

[Salty]

Where I addend church the 'worship leader' begins the service.

• Worship with voice (Singing)
• Worship in adoration/supplication (Prayer)
• Worship with Word (Preaching)
• Worship with offerings (Giving)

First one up "leads".

Rob

So you are saying that the music director also does the preaching?

 

[agedman]

So you are saying that the music director also does the preaching?

Absolutely

The music causes an immediate response and a wise minister of the music will declare the truths and proofs of Scripture musically.

Sadly, often the modernist trends neglect a clear presentation of the gospel in favor of stirring up emotionalism in effect surplanting the Holy Spirit in the process.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

TC's excellent summary of biblical warship saved me from producing a lesser effort. What I can say is that, in the 47 years since Christ saved me, none of the churches where I've been a member had a position called worship leader, or a group called a worship team. Most have had choirs and those choirs had directors. Though the intent of the title "worship leader" may be different, the obvious implication is not just that music in church is worship (as it always should be) but that worship is music, which is unbiblically narrow.

"Therefore, the Scriptural qualifications of all and any who stand to deliver the message of God to the people be it musician or preacher should be met."

The above statement, quoted from post #5, would seem to exclude women from participating in music ministry, according to the qualifications in 1 Tim. 3. I am not implying that the one making that post was saying that, or believes that, only taking the sentence to its logical scriptural conclusion.

 

[agedman]

TC's excellent summary of biblical warship saved me from producing a lesser effort. What I can say is that, in the 47 years since Christ saved me, none of the churches where I've been a member had a position called worship leader, or a group called a worship team. Most have had choirs and those choirs had directors. Though the intent of the title "worship leader" may be different, the obvious implication is not just that music in church is worship (as it always should be) but that worship is music, which is unbiblically narrow.

"Therefore, the Scriptural qualifications of all and any who stand to deliver the message of God to the people be it musician or preacher should be met."

The above statement, quoted from post #5, would seem to exclude women from participating in music ministry, according to the qualifications in 1 Tim. 3. I am not implying that the one making that post was saying that, or believes that, only taking the sentence to its logical scriptural conclusion.

There is uncrossible divide between participating in the choir or ensemble and leading that group.

Accompanied by is quite different than lead by.

Having said that, yes, it is to be understood that leadership of the music in the assembly is to be done by a minister who meets the qualifications of elder.

 

[Deacon]

So you are saying that the music director also does the preaching?

Absolutely Not!

Think about it agedman.

With only an elder/minister delegating worship you have set up a community tabernacle rather than a community church

If an elder is the only one who can lead the congregation into worship...

in the absence of a minister you can’t have church...

…and can’t properly worship.​

• you can’t worship in the sharing of the Word without an elder
• you can’t worship in song
• you can’t worship in prayer
• …or in giving

You've set up another high priest.
Christians don’t need another high priest to lead us into worship; we have one in our Savor.

The church body has been gifted by the Spirit with everything necessary and beneficial (1 Cor 12:7)

Now there are different gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different ministries, but the same Lord. And there are different activities, but the same God produces each gift in each person. A manifestation of the Spirit is given to each person for the common good: 1 Corinthians 12:4–7 (CSB)​

You seem to be vesting all the gifts in the body of elders/ministers/priest.

Let the body work in a normal way, let the gifts the Spirit provides be seen and used.

Rob