reformedbeliever
New Member
Brother Bob said:
Bob. My hair is getting rather thin up top.... so I just get a buzz cut. Do you recommend I do a comb over? Since we are so far off topic.
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Would God command men to do something they were unable to do?
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Bob. My hair is getting rather thin up top.... so I just get a buzz cut. Do you recommend I do a comb over? Since we are so far off topic.
Brother Bob
New Member
I say live with what you got as I do and do not try to be something you are not.
Jarthur001
Active Member
I'll tell you Bob.Brother Bob said:
You are wrong. And you could have said what you said 10 pages back. silly :BangHead:
That is the 1st time I have used the headbanger. But I think it was a good time.
reformedbeliever
New Member
Brother Bob said:
:smilewinkgrin: Thanks Bob
Brother Bob
New Member
Yea, you sure got you back side slapped tonight.
Good nite all
Good nite all
reformedbeliever
New Member
El_Guero said:Bob,
I will allow them the choice of defending the OP that they were predestined to ignore . . .
The question is, can a calvinist choose to do what is right if they are commanded to do so?
Only if God has ordained it.
reformedbeliever
New Member
El_Guero said:
What? Do you do a comb over too Wayne? :laugh:
Jarthur001
Active Member
Did God lead you to post that?El_Guero said:Bob,
I will allow them the choice of defending the OP that they were predestined to ignore . . .
The question is, can a calvinist choose to do what is right if they are commanded to do so?
reformedbeliever
New Member
C'mon Wayne.... post your picture... :tongue3:
reformedbeliever
New Member
Brother Bob said:Yea, you sure got you back side slapped tonight.
Good nite all
Bob, in all honesty, you really think it was us who got their backside slapped? lol If you call avoiding questions where you have no answer slapping backsides..... so be it. Try answering instead of avoiding.... then you might have a chance at slapping our backsides. You never truly answered the OP, and you know it is an argument you guys use over and over. God is sovereign, not man. He has the right to dispose of His creation as He sees fit. Get over it.
I have always wondered about the belief in this: "God is sovereign, not man. He has the right to dispose of His creation as He sees fit. Get over it."
If God is Sovereign, then He can make 'free will' truly free. Unless, He is not really free to do what He desires . . . so is there a greater force than God? Or is He where the buck actually stops? Is there anything that can constrain God?
If God is Sovereign, then He can make 'free will' truly free. Unless, He is not really free to do what He desires . . . so is there a greater force than God? Or is He where the buck actually stops? Is there anything that can constrain God?
reformedbeliever
New Member
El_Guero said:
Not if He is God.... and He is. God can not do anything that would be against His nature... it would be self defeating. He can't do that. To make mens choices truly free.... in the libertarian sense... would violate who God is. It would violate His omniscience. Either the future exists as He knows it, or He does not know it. If the future exists as He knows it... then there really are no variables in our *free* choices.
reformedbeliever
New Member
webdog said:
Try reading Psalms 139 webdog.... its not a theory... its God's word. There are many more biblical examples if you need them. If this is the best rebutal you have to what I posted, don't waste my time. Try using scripture to back up your logic webdog... or you will still be wasting my time.
I read it, and it does not support your flawed theory, nor your speaking for God. Nice try, though. Ps 139 does not even hint at the fact that if God made man with free choice He would no longer be omniscient.reformedbeliever said:
If I'm wasting your time...don't respond :wavey:
Brother Bob
New Member
Yea, you got slapped good. You never did answer if God commands all men to repent does all men hear the command and if not how can they be commanded.
Also, You never answered if you agreed with God or not on whether Abraham kept the Commandments, Statues and Law?
1.Gen 26:5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws
So we plainly see who never answered. You still can answer if you like. Did Abraham do what God said he did and keep the Commandments, Statues and Laws?
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reformedbeliever
New Member
A friend just called and told me to look at this article by R C Sproul. It gets to the heart of the OP.
What Is Pelagianism?
Now, let’s return briefly to my title, “The Pelagian Captivity of the Church.” What are we talking about? Pelagius was a monk who lived in Britain in the fifth century. He was a contemporary of the greatest theologian of the first millennium of Church history if not of all time, Aurelius Augustine, Bishop of Hippo in North Africa. We have heard of St. Augustine, of his great works in theology, of his City of God, of his Confessions, and so on, which remain Christian classics.
Augustine, in addition to being a titanic theologian and a prodigious intellect, was also a man of deep spirituality and prayer. In one of his famous prayers, Augustine made a seemingly harmless and innocuous statement in the prayer to God in which he says: “O God, command what you wouldst, and grant what thou dost command.” Now, would that give you apoplexy — to hear a prayer like that? Well it certainly set Pelagius, this British monk, into orbit. When he heard that, he protested vociferously, even appealing to Rome to have this ghastly prayer censured from the pen of Augustine. Here’s why. He said, “Are you saying, Augustine, that God has the inherent right to command anything that he so desires from his creatures? Nobody is going to dispute that. God inherently, as the creator of heaven and earth, has the right to impose obligations on his creatures and say, ‘Thou shalt do this, and thou shalt not do that.’ ‘Command whatever thou would’ — it’s a perfectly legitimate prayer.”
It’s the second part of the prayer that Pelagius abhorred when Augustine said, “and grant what thou dost command.” He said, “What are you talking about? If God is just, if God is righteous and God is holy, and God commands of the creature to do something, certainly that creature must have the power within himself, the moral ability within himself, to perform it or God would never require it in the first place.” Now that makes sense, doesn’t it? What Pelagius was saying is that moral responsibility always and everywhere implies moral capability or, simply, moral ability. So why would we have to pray, “God grant me, give me the gift of being able to do what you command me to do”? Pelagius saw in this statement a shadow being cast over the integrity of God himself, who would hold people responsible for doing something they cannot do.
This was only part of the article. To see the rest click this link.
http://www.modernreformation.org/rc01pelagian.htm
What Is Pelagianism?
Now, let’s return briefly to my title, “The Pelagian Captivity of the Church.” What are we talking about? Pelagius was a monk who lived in Britain in the fifth century. He was a contemporary of the greatest theologian of the first millennium of Church history if not of all time, Aurelius Augustine, Bishop of Hippo in North Africa. We have heard of St. Augustine, of his great works in theology, of his City of God, of his Confessions, and so on, which remain Christian classics.
Augustine, in addition to being a titanic theologian and a prodigious intellect, was also a man of deep spirituality and prayer. In one of his famous prayers, Augustine made a seemingly harmless and innocuous statement in the prayer to God in which he says: “O God, command what you wouldst, and grant what thou dost command.” Now, would that give you apoplexy — to hear a prayer like that? Well it certainly set Pelagius, this British monk, into orbit. When he heard that, he protested vociferously, even appealing to Rome to have this ghastly prayer censured from the pen of Augustine. Here’s why. He said, “Are you saying, Augustine, that God has the inherent right to command anything that he so desires from his creatures? Nobody is going to dispute that. God inherently, as the creator of heaven and earth, has the right to impose obligations on his creatures and say, ‘Thou shalt do this, and thou shalt not do that.’ ‘Command whatever thou would’ — it’s a perfectly legitimate prayer.”
It’s the second part of the prayer that Pelagius abhorred when Augustine said, “and grant what thou dost command.” He said, “What are you talking about? If God is just, if God is righteous and God is holy, and God commands of the creature to do something, certainly that creature must have the power within himself, the moral ability within himself, to perform it or God would never require it in the first place.” Now that makes sense, doesn’t it? What Pelagius was saying is that moral responsibility always and everywhere implies moral capability or, simply, moral ability. So why would we have to pray, “God grant me, give me the gift of being able to do what you command me to do”? Pelagius saw in this statement a shadow being cast over the integrity of God himself, who would hold people responsible for doing something they cannot do.
This was only part of the article. To see the rest click this link.
http://www.modernreformation.org/rc01pelagian.htm
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