Would Issuing a Marriage License to Gays ..... be a Sin?

[wpe3bql]

Just to prove that I'm not infallible, I noticed two mistakes in the above post. :smilewinkgrin:

Anyone care to tell me what they are? :laugh:

 

[carpro]

Are you an agent of the government? If so, will administrating the law cause harm? If so, then resign and protest the law.

Good non answer. I take that to mean either you won't draw a line or have no idea where it would be.


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[Baptist Believer]

Good non answer. I take that to mean either you won't draw a line or have no idea where it would be.

My answer is a guideline about how to approach specific instances, since you asked a general question.

My answer requires careful rational thought and a Christian worldview.

If you can't apply those, then you're out of luck and I can't help you.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

That seems to be what County Clerks and others in that office around the country are in fact stating by refusing to issue a license!

What say you? If you were behind the counter and had the opportunity to issue or not issue a marriage license, WHAT WOULD YOU DO (and why)? And if you issued it, would that be making you part of their sinful act? :wavey:

I think it's similar to a "meat offered to idols" issue, in that what somebody does with what I give them in good faith (no pun intended) is on their conscience, not mine.

I, personally, wouldn't, as I would feel that I'm complicit in and enabling of their sin and because I don't believe it would be a valid "marriage".

But people are at different places in figuring this out, so even though I wouldn't, I don't think I'd judge somebody who did.

 

[carpro]

My answer is a guideline about how to approach specific instances, since you asked a general question.

No, you just don't have the guts to answer.

Where would YOU draw the line and make a stand for God. We know it's not gay marriage. Where is it?

 

[carpro]

That seems to be what County Clerks and others in that office around the country are in fact stating by refusing to issue a license!

What say you? If you were behind the counter and had the opportunity to issue or not issue a marriage license, WHAT WOULD YOU DO (and why)? And if you issued it, would that be making you part of their sinful act? :wavey:

Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.

Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.

Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness,

There we have it. But "Christians" are always looking for a way to excuse their sin.

 

[Baptist Believer]

To answer your question Carpro, I need to set the context again:

You accused:

So anything the state orders you to do is not a sin?

I responded:

Who had said that? The only person I have seen to even suggests that idea is you.

You asked:

Just where do you draw the line? Or is there one?

Because it was such a broad question - not distinguishing betweens one’s role as an agent of government, the role of a private citizen, or the role or a pastor or church leader; or even providing a scenario where I could measure the roles of unfolding righteousness and administering grace, I had to give a broad answer. I assumed you were likely asking about where I would draw the line if I were a government agent and wrote:

Are you an agent of the government? If so, will administrating the law cause harm? If so, then resign and protest the law.

If I am an agent of government, I need to follow the laws of government unless I am convinced that my actions will cause harm - especially immediate harm - to those whom the action affects. If that is the case, then I need to resign my role and become a private citizen where I can work to change the law.

To that straightforward answer you provided this non squitur:

Good non answer. I take that to mean either you won't draw a line or have no idea where it would be.

Somewhat confused by your inability to comprehend my response, I wrote:

My answer is a guideline about how to approach specific instances, since you asked a general question.

My answer requires careful rational thought and a Christian worldview.

Today you have gifted me with another ad hominem:

No, you just don't have the guts to answer.

I have been answering, but apparently not the way you want - not providing answers that are helpful to your argument.

You continued with another false accusation:

Where would YOU draw the line and make a stand for God. We know it's not gay marriage. Where is it?

Since you are making no distinctions between being an agent of government and being a private citizen, I will have to respond to both so my answers cannot be as easily twisted by those who have hearts full of evil.

As an agent of government:
I would draw the line at areas where the state is forcing injustice on innocents. That would include depriving innocent people of life, liberty, or equal protection under the law.

As a private citizen:
I do not support homosexual sexual relations, nor gay marriage. I do not support sexual relations outside of marriage - period. I do not support the government imposing itself in the institution of marriage, but that ship has already sailed and, ironically, so-called conservative Christians have been some of the strongest advocates for the state regulation or marriage until last month. I am a strong advocate of separation of church and state and understand that persons who have very different morals, beliefs and lifestyles than I have also enjoy equal protection under the law.

As a church leader and minister:
I understand that human sexuality is in a terrible state of confusion and that mainstream Christians have done little that is constructive to help people sort out the confusion in their lives. As someone who is close friends with a number of people who experience same sex attraction (and live in various lifestyles including a married couple, a cohabitating couple, and a number of single men and women - some celibate, some not), the issue is complex and deep. The experiences are not the same, but there is a shared experience of sexual desire toward members of the same gender. Some fight it but many do not. Almost all of them have found the typical church situation completely unhelpful - even those who are fighting to remain celibate. Simply put, churches do not seem to know how to help people apply the teachings and practices of Jesus to their lives in a way that is transformative of their desires. And this extends far beyond sexual impulses, but to “everyday” sins as well. How many times have you heard - or even said yourself - “I can’t break the power of [a certain sin] and I keep returning to it?” Of course, the answer is grace… but not just grace for forgiveness, but grace for transformation. Until your church has a method and a track record of success for transforming Christians, you need to go easy on the condemnation of those who are tempted by same sex attraction. You con’t have to approve of their sinful actions, but you need to be a person who extends grace and demonstrates a better way with your own life. Speaking for myself, I am working both inside and outside of the church in a ministry of grace and transformation for sinners of all types and we are starting so see some results.

 

[carpro]

As an agent of government:
I would draw the line at areas where the state is forcing injustice on innocents. That would include depriving innocent people of life, liberty, or equal protection under the law.

Therein lies your problem. A county clerk is not an "agent of the government". They are elected agents of the people.

What you are saying is , if you consider yourself an "agent of the government" you would place God on the back burner.

And you're a minister?

 

[Revmitchell]

It matters not what we are an agent of. We do not condone nor participate in sin. There is no room for anything else here.We do not participate in sin nor the appearance of sin.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Therein lies your problem. A county clerk is not an "agent of the government". They are elected agents of the people.

You have a strange view of government.

What you are saying is , if you consider yourself an "agent of the government" you would place God on the back burner.

No, that's not what I am saying. You do not get to twist my words. I have written what I have written.

And you're a minister?

Is something wrong with your eyes?

 

[carpro]

It matters not what we are an agent of. We do not condone nor participate in sin. There is no room for anything else here.We do not participate in sin nor the appearance of sin.

Tell that to BB. He doesn't agree.


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