Would Paul Washer Be Welcome to Speak at Your Local Church

[Winman]

Excuse me??? The books are LOADED WITH SCRIPTURE. In Fact the author in the book above has dedicated many pages to defending the doctrine of total depravity and has listed some 10-30 verses in its defense. Do you think he made these verses up? These verses clearly teach the doctrine and only someone with a bias could not see them.

God has gifted the church teachers but you do not want to be taught but come to this board with an agenda to attack Calvinists.

You do not have a clue what you are talking about. You are a perfect example of the blind leading the blind.

Luk 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

 

[saturneptune]

Perhaps because they have not understood it, have a bias against it, do not know historical theology, or it goes against their traditions.

I agree with your statement here. Since God is the Creator of all things, I do not see how anyone could come to any other conclusion. Also, I did not answer your other post, about how would one deal with churches that did allow Paul Washer to speak at their church. All I can say about that is that each church is autonomous, and that is a decision each church would have to make. Had I not seen this man in person, I would never have given him a second thought. I saw the effect he had on folks I have known for decades. Maybe his message is what some churches need, or the style, but not for a congregation that is spiritually mature. We will just have to agree to disagree about this man. I have said all I am going to say about him.

 

[JonC]

Perhaps because they have not understood it, have a bias against it, do not know historical theology, or it goes against their traditions.

For some, perhaps. But what about those who do understand it but do not come to the same conclusions reading Scripture? It is not a matter of intelligence or really of accepting God's Word. I will, however, grant you that most do not try to understand the opposing understanding. Non-Calvinists tend not to address Calvinism within the true Calvinistic understanding of Scripture (they address Calvinism within a non-Calvinistic framework). It is the same with some Calvinists (some defeat non-Calvinists positions by placing them within a Calvinist framework). Those who try to understand both sides while holding to a specific position are ridiculed by the likes of P4T who deem it unnecessary to understand fellow Christians who differ in views or even to critique movements within one's own position.- instead being content to hold a cult-like view of their own position.

BTW: I failed to answer the OP. Washer would be welcomed in my church and I personally would love to hear his sermon.

 

[Rippon]

You do not have a clue what you are talking about. You are a perfect example of the blind leading the blind.

Luk 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

Hey Winman. How about putting an effort into what you promised earlier? Try some kindness.

Everything that Evan said in his post was perfectly reasonable. You are going off the rails. Try to be nicer.

 

[evangelist6589]

Were you guys married to each other at one time?

Can't you guys PM each other?

This is a very inappropriate comment. Brothers we need to learn to get along and speak with CONVICTION but at the same time refute those whom teach false doctrine with GENTLENESS AND RESPECT.

 

[Winman]

Hey Winman. How about putting an effort into what you promised on the other thread? Ty some kindness.

Everything that Evan said in his post was perfectly reasonable. You are going off the rails. Try to be nicer.

I love Evangelist, I think it is terrific he wants folks to be saved.

But he doesn't know what he is talking about. He needs to quit buying books that keep him confused and read the Bible.

 

[Winman]

This is a very inappropriate comment. Brothers we need to learn to get along and speak with CONVICTION but at the same time refute those whom teach false doctrine with GENTLENESS AND RESPECT.

Like I said, you don't have a clue. That was humor, Quantam understood.

Now that is funny. Isn't it just sweet how we all seem to have at least one nemesis on this board.

It went right over your head.

 

[quantumfaith]

For some, perhaps. But what about those who do understand it but do not come to the same conclusions reading Scripture? It is not a matter of intelligence or really of accepting God's Word. I will, however, grant you that most do not try to understand the opposing understanding. Non-Calvinists tend not to address Calvinism within the true Calvinistic understanding of Scripture (they address Calvinism within a non-Calvinistic framework). It is the same with some Calvinists (some defeat non-Calvinists positions by placing them within a Calvinist framework). Those who try to understand both sides while holding to a specific position are ridiculed by the likes of P4T who deem it unnecessary to understand fellow Christians who differ in views or even to critique movements within one's own position.- instead being content to hold a cult-like view of their own position.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[evangelist6589]

I agree with your statement here. Since God is the Creator of all things, I do not see how anyone could come to any other conclusion. Also, I did not answer your other post, about how would one deal with churches that did allow Paul Washer to speak at their church. All I can say about that is that each church is autonomous, and that is a decision each church would have to make. Had I not seen this man in person, I would never have given him a second thought. I saw the effect he had on folks I have known for decades. Maybe his message is what some churches need, or the style, but not for a congregation that is spiritually mature. We will just have to agree to disagree about this man. I have said all I am going to say about him.

You know in 2009 or 2010 I was an Arminian and I sent a attacking email to Paul Washer and his ministry. I should send him a message and apologize for doing that.

Brother Paul. In 2009 or 2010 I sent an attacking email to you criticizing you, but I was closed to reading your books or listening to your sermons then, but after I moved away from Armianism and into Reformed theology (well minus its eschatological views) I started to really appreciate your great preaching, writing, and love for the truth. Thank you brother Paul for your strong witness. Your book "The Gospel call and True Conversion" has been a blessing. Lots of similarities to The Gospel According to Jesus by John MacArthur. Thank you!

 

[evangelist6589]

I love Evangelist, I think it is terrific he wants folks to be saved.

But he doesn't know what he is talking about. He needs to quit buying books that keep him confused and read the Bible.

There is some truth to this. I need to spend more time in the word. I am however trying to read the bible through this year.

I am a slave, yes indeed I am a slave of God.

 

[Winman]

There is some truth to this. I need to spend more time in the word. I am however trying to read the bible through this year.

We ALL need to read the Bible more.

Books are good, but they can be a crutch. Instead of studying the scriptures and asking the Holy Spirit to give us the true interpretation of scripture, it is easy to open a book or commentary and see how someone else interpreted this passage.

That's fine if the person is correct, but there are MANY false teachers out there.

I will promise you this, if you study the Bible alone for even one year, you will come away from Reformed theology.

 

[saturneptune]

You know in 2009 or 2010 I was an Arminian and I sent a attacking email to Paul Washer and his ministry. I should send him a message and apologize for doing that.

I think you should do what the Lord leads you to do. I would not, however, equate liking or not liking Paul Washer on whether you are a Calvinist or Arminian. There are other issues, such as a works gospel vs the Gospel. Also, the issue of what mindset the man is in comes into play. Is his ministry for the glory of God, or the glory of Paul Washer? Only you can answer that for yourself. As I said above, I am through commenting on the man.

 

[quantumfaith]

I think you should do what the Lord leads you to do. I would not, however, equate liking or not liking Paul Washer on whether you are a Calvinist or Arminian. There are other issues, such as a works gospel vs the Gospel. Also, the issue of what mindset the man is in comes into play. Is his ministry for the glory of God, or the glory of Paul Washer? Only you can answer that for yourself. As I said above, I am through commenting on the man.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I will promise you this, if you study the Bible alone for even one year, you will come away from Reformed theology.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that Winman condemns Reformed theology but then appeals to sola scriptura?

So, if we can only read the Bible and have no other influences, then what do we do about church? Can we still listen to our pastor preach? Can we still listen to the teachers and preachers the Bible says were given to us by God?

If not, then why did God give them to us?

And what happens if, just reading the Bible by yourself, you interpret a passage wrongly? Who is supposed to correct you?

 

[evangelist6589]

I think you should do what the Lord leads you to do. I would not, however, equate liking or not liking Paul Washer on whether you are a Calvinist or Arminian. There are other issues, such as a works gospel vs the Gospel. Also, the issue of what mindset the man is in comes into play. Is his ministry for the glory of God, or the glory of Paul Washer? Only you can answer that for yourself. As I said above, I am through commenting on the man.

There are some that love themselves and glory in themselves. Hank Hanagaraaf is one example, however I do not get that with brother Paul. can you give some examples of Paul glorifying himself?

 

[evangelist6589]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that Winman condemns Reformed theology but then appeals to sola scriptura?

So, if we can only read the Bible and have no other influences, then what do we do about church? Can we still listen to our pastor preach? Can we still listen to the teachers and preachers the Bible says were given to us by God?

If not, then why did God give them to us?

And what happens if, just reading the Bible by yourself, you interpret a passage wrongly? Who is supposed to correct you?

Lots of Charismatics and Snake Handlers think like WinMan and do not read books, commentaries, or listen to podcasts. Some of them believe they can pick up Snakes and no harm will come to them. You question them or challenge them, and they say that you do not read the Bible and should out away all your books and believe what Mark 16 says. They say the ESV & NIV corrupt the Bible as it says that the passage may not be original. Go figure.

 

[Winman]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that Winman condemns Reformed theology but then appeals to sola scriptura?

So, if we can only read the Bible and have no other influences, then what do we do about church? Can we still listen to our pastor preach? Can we still listen to the teachers and preachers the Bible says were given to us by God?

If not, then why did God give them to us?

And what happens if, just reading the Bible by yourself, you interpret a passage wrongly? Who is supposed to correct you?

Paul praised the Bereans because they did not just believe whatever they were told by a preacher (including himself), but searched the scriptures to make sure what was preached matched up with the word of God.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

This is life and death business, our very souls are in question. I don't trust any man, I compare everything against the scriptures.

If you want to trust other men with your soul, go ahead. Not me.

 

[evangelist6589]

Paul praised the Bereans because they did not just believe whatever they were told by a preacher (including himself), but searched the scriptures to make sure what was preached matched up with the word of God.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

This is life and death business, our very souls are in question. I don't trust any man, I compare everything against the scriptures.

If you want to trust other men with your soul, go ahead. Not me.

The Bible says in Mark 16:17-18

17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

The KJV does not include the line saying that this text is not in the best available manuscripts. Do you not agree that those that believe and teach against picking up snakes have got it wrong? Should they also not be like the Bereans and read only the scripture and should they not condemn those that DISAGREE with their interpretation?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Paul praised the Bereans because they did not just believe whatever they were told by a preacher (including himself), but searched the scriptures to make sure what was preached matched up with the word of God.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Nobody's arguing otherwise, but that's not what you said.

This is life and death business, our very souls are in question. I don't trust any man, I compare everything against the scriptures.

And you should, but if you don't trust any man, then what makes you trustworthy when you lecture us?

If you want to trust other men with your soul, go ahead. Not me.

And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,12to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. - Eph 4:11-15.

 

[InTheLight]

I still haven't heard any real criticism from Washer's detractors. I've heard plenty of "He's a jerk" and "I don't like his methods" and "he's a heretic", but none of them have actually shown any Biblical evidence that he's said anything wrong.

And so we began. I began in the Old Testament, the New Testament, every verse of Scripture dealing with the promises of God regarding redemption and salvation, over and over, time after time, reading John 3:16, praying for a while, crying out to God, questioning the man regarding repentance, regarding faith, regarding assurance—working till Christ be formed in him.

So instead of singing "Just as I Am" 15 times during an invitation the Calvinist reads scripture over and over again until by DOING THIS WORK Christ is formed in him.

And then finally, just exhausted that evening, there was no breakthrough; there was nothing. And I said, “Sir, let’s pray.” And we prayed.I said, “Sir, read John 3:16 again.”He said, “We have read this a million times.”I said, “I know, but it is one of the greatest promises of salvation. Read that text again.”
And I will never forget it. He had my Bible on his lap in those big mountainous hands of his and he said, “OK.” He said,“For God so loved the world, that He gave...—I’m saved. I’m saved! Brother Paul, all my sins are gone! I have eternal life! I’m saved!” I said, “How do you know?”He said, “Haven’t you ever read this verse before?”

So read a Bible verse over and over again and then through your own will declare yourself saved!