Would you stay? 3

[Adonia]

Do You think eternal life is something separate from being forgiven?

Personally, I think such a thing is possible. My sins can be forgiven, but if I then do not live up to all the other things mentioned in the Scriptures, maybe not. If I refuse to help the downtrodden and hopeless, or give everything I have away will Jesus say to me: "I never knew you, depart from me" despite the fact that I have sought forgiveness for my sins? All I can say for sure is that in the end it will be God's mercy on the day I leave this world that will decide my eternal fate.

 

[JonShaff]

Personally, I think such a thing is possible. My sins can be forgiven, but if I then do not live up to all the other things mentioned in the Scriptures, maybe not. If I refuse to help the downtrodden and hopeless, or give everything I have away will Jesus say to me: "I never knew you, depart from me" despite the fact that I have sought forgiveness for my sins? All I can say for sure is that in the end it will be God's mercy on the day I leave this world that will decide my eternal fate.

Sir, that's the beauty and sobering realities of the Gospel--you CAN'T live up to all the things mentioned in Scripture--we are broken, fallen sinners--But Christ died and rose from the Dead to pay the sin debt we owed--He said, "It is finished!" So that all who would trust in HIM would be forgiven and have peace with God--receiving eternal life. Not based on any merit of our own, but based on the righteous life and vicarious death of Jesus Christ. God rose Christ from the dead (payment accepted) to justify/forgive all who would call upon Him. And good Works are the RESULT of having eternal Life--they are the RESULT of being forgiven. We must stop putting the cart before the horse, we cannot earn eternal life, we don't deserve eternal life. It is given to us by the Grace of God through Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray this helps.

P.s. Scripture says Eternal life can be had NOW, and one can KNOW they have eternal life, NOW. If you are waiting to see if you have done enough to merit salvation, it will be too late--you will spend eternity in a forever-Hell--separated from God. He says TODAY is the day of salvation. Call upon the Lord Today! Forsake Rome, and Fall upon the Savior, Jesus Christ--Salvation is only in Him!

 

[Adonia]

Sir, that's the beauty and sobering realities of the Gospel--you CAN'T live up to all the things mentioned in Scripture--we are broken, fallen sinners--But Christ died and rose from the Dead to pay the sin debt we owed--He said, "It is finished!" So that all who would trust in HIM would be forgiven and have peace with God--receiving eternal life. Not based on any merit of our own, but based on the righteous life and vicarious death of Jesus Christ. God rose Christ from the dead (payment accepted) to justify/forgive all who would call upon Him. And good Works are the RESULT of having eternal Life--they are the RESULT of being forgiven. We must stop putting the cart before the horse, we cannot earn eternal life, we don't deserve eternal life. It is given to us by the Grace of God through Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray this helps.

P.s. Scripture says Eternal life can be had NOW, and one can KNOW they have eternal life, NOW. If you are waiting to see if you have done enough to merit salvation, it will be too late--you will spend eternity in a forever-Hell--separated from God. He says TODAY is the day of salvation. Call upon the Lord Today! Forsake Rome, and Fall upon the Savior, Jesus Christ--Salvation is only in Him!

Nothing like a fire and brimstone Christian that's for sure. Good grief!

 

[utilyan]

OK, we now have a third Catholic answer and that makes three different answers as to what one must do to be saved. Where is the one voice, one doctrine of the Catholic answer on "what must i do to be saved?"

The commandments are what they are.

The command is Love God and Love neighbor. No Priority nor Commandment has ever been to selfishly seek salvation.

Everything is complete in love neighbor. Whatever your told, If Love is negated and void, you won't find salvation there.

This is why FAITH ALONE precisely identified by Luther as being superior and devoid of LOVE, FAILED and did not get a passing grade from the church.


The good work LOVE is required.

 

[Adonia]

Sir, that's the beauty and sobering realities of the Gospel--you CAN'T live up to all the things mentioned in Scripture--we are broken, fallen sinners--But Christ died and rose from the Dead to pay the sin debt we owed--He said, "It is finished!" So that all who would trust in HIM would be forgiven and have peace with God--receiving eternal life. Not based on any merit of our own, but based on the righteous life and vicarious death of Jesus Christ. God rose Christ from the dead (payment accepted) to justify/forgive all who would call upon Him. And good Works are the RESULT of having eternal Life--they are the RESULT of being forgiven. We must stop putting the cart before the horse, we cannot earn eternal life, we don't deserve eternal life. It is given to us by the Grace of God through Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray this helps.

P.s. Scripture says Eternal life can be had NOW, and one can KNOW they have eternal life, NOW. If you are waiting to see if you have done enough to merit salvation, it will be too late--you will spend eternity in a forever-Hell--separated from God. He says TODAY is the day of salvation. Call upon the Lord Today! Forsake Rome, and Fall upon the Savior, Jesus Christ--Salvation is only in Him!

How is it that you discount all the other things written in the Scriptures? You claim what you have written here is all that is needed, but in other places in the Scriptures your claim is quantified.

Look, we all have an individual particular relationship with the Lord and He comes to each of us with our faults, our doubts, and how each of us looks at and deals with everything that comes upon us in this life, and what is to come in the next - everyone does not feel and see things exactly as you do.

 

[JonShaff]

Nothing like a fire and brimstone Christian that's for sure. Good grief!

Sir, What i posted is the demonstration of God's LOVE.

Romans 5:8
8But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him!

 

[JonShaff]

Sir, that's the beauty and sobering realities of the Gospel--you CAN'T live up to all the things mentioned in Scripture--we are broken, fallen sinners--But Christ died and rose from the Dead to pay the sin debt we owed--He said, "It is finished!" So that all who would trust in HIM would be forgiven and have peace with God--receiving eternal life. Not based on any merit of our own, but based on the righteous life and vicarious death of Jesus Christ. God rose Christ from the dead (payment accepted) to justify/forgive all who would call upon Him. And good Works are the RESULT of having eternal Life--they are the RESULT of being forgiven. We must stop putting the cart before the horse, we cannot earn eternal life, we don't deserve eternal life. It is given to us by the Grace of God through Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray this helps.

P.s. Scripture says Eternal life can be had NOW, and one can KNOW they have eternal life, NOW. If you are waiting to see if you have done enough to merit salvation, it will be too late--you will spend eternity in a forever-Hell--separated from God. He says TODAY is the day of salvation. Call upon the Lord Today! Forsake Rome, and Fall upon the Savior, Jesus Christ--Salvation is only in Him!

How is it that you discount all the other things written in the Scriptures? You claim what you have written here is all that is needed, but in other places in the Scriptures your claim is quantified.

Look, we all have an individual particular relationship with the Lord and He comes to each of us with our faults, our doubts, and how each of us looks at and deals with everything that comes upon us in this life, and what is to come in the next - everyone does not feel and see things exactly as you do.

There is no doubt in my mind that as you read my post, your heart was pricked. The Holy Spirit revealed to you that salvation is not in your membership or affiliation to the RC. Your confidence is in your membership and the fact that you think they are correct. Your response is telling. Read my post again, and i humbly submit, this is not "fire and brimstone", but it is a love letter, the Gospel Message.

 

[utilyan]

Great! So we don't need Jesus, we don't need forgiveness or anything else; all we need is to do that. And you do it, do you? All the time, perfectly? Without a single flaw (James 2:10)?

God is not bound by a spiritual mechanic. He doesn't have to change "forgive" batteries or do a dance of his peoples.

The command is love God and Love Neighbor. If you don't see that in Jesus you got ways to go. In fact Jesus is the point where it is Divinely TAUGHT.


"And you do it, do you? All the time, perfectly? Without a single flaw (James 2:10)?"

Well If I did, God would be out of a job wouldn't he?

 

[Yeshua1]

There is only one truth, not individual truths that people can come to discern by themselves. For example, there are some Christian faith traditions that use grape juice during communion time. Now there is only one truth about this and that is that wine, the fermented fruit of the vine is the element that is to be used - it says this clearly and unequivocally in the Scriptures. Grape juice is the unfermented fruit of the vine and is and has always been known as grape juice and is not the element that should be used during any communion service. Wine is wine, and grape juice is grape juice.

Now, if people insist on using grape juice by their reading of the Scriptures, they have made a grave error in their discernment of the written word. They have not found a "truth", but a falsehood. The "New Wine" which they claim is what they use and is non alcoholic is another falsehood. Even "New Wine" contains alcohol - the name "wine" means alcoholic. If it contains no alcohol, it is plain old grape juice and not what Jesus used at the Passover Seder.

The Holy Spirit will reveal to us the essential truth of Christianity, such as Trinity, the Cross, and the proper view of salvation, which would be the Pauline theology on the Justification of the saved in Christ!
He will not be giving to us whether to use grace juice or wine, when the second coming is, and which Version to use though!

 

[Yeshua1]

Let's not try and get smart shall we? (See the last sentence from my previous post). I would advise you however that for the full measure of Christianity that you embrace orthodoxy, either the Latin Rite or the Eastern Orthodox faith tradition.

How about the Gospel according to Jesus and Paul?

 

[Walter]

Sir, that's the beauty and sobering realities of the Gospel--you CAN'T live up to all the things mentioned in Scripture--we are broken, fallen sinners--But Christ died and rose from the Dead to pay the sin debt we owed--He said, "It is finished!" So that all who would trust in HIM would be forgiven and have peace with God--receiving eternal life. Not based on any merit of our own, but based on the righteous life and vicarious death of Jesus Christ. God rose Christ from the dead (payment accepted) to justify/forgive all who would call upon Him. And good Works are the RESULT of having eternal Life--they are the RESULT of being forgiven. We must stop putting the cart before the horse, we cannot earn eternal life, we don't deserve eternal life. It is given to us by the Grace of God through Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray this helps.

P.s. Scripture says Eternal life can be had NOW, and one can KNOW they have eternal life, NOW. If you are waiting to see if you have done enough to merit salvation, it will be too late--you will spend eternity in a forever-Hell--separated from God. He says TODAY is the day of salvation. Call upon the Lord Today! Forsake Rome, and Fall upon the Savior, Jesus Christ--Salvation is only in Him!

What is sad is you think Catholics are not trusting in Christ for their salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

What is sad is you think Catholics are not trusting in Christ for their salvation.

The ones that are trusting in jesus ALONE are saved, but the sadtruth is thet MANY do not trust in Him alone, but in also their infant baptism, rosaries, Mass, confirmation etc!

 

[Davyboy]

Are you Jimmy Akin?

If not, stop plagiarizing and cite your sources.

View attachment 2424

Did everyone catch that Jon could not speak against (no post denying it, or a response post that has him “catching” me, like I care but with no rebuttal) what I posted about 2 Timothy. Proof that 2 Timothy doesn’t support “the Bible Alone” Then why were you looking for something there in the post? Or why did you care to Google my post?

Jon is the plagiarizing police. Watch out if there’s something he can’t speak about he’ll Google your post. Then try and give you’re a ticket.

Let me tell you that I don’t care that everyone knows that I plagiarize. Last time I checked, I didn’t enroll my self in a college writing class. And just FYI everyone, if you get ideas from the web or pastor or friend, please submit your Works Cited page separate from your post and please have it in MLA format and submit it to Jon.

You don’t get it, Catholics are on the same team are going toward the same end zone. We are all teammates. If a certain play works to score a touchdown then I’ll repeat that play. And there’s nothing you can do about it.

 

[Yeshua1]

Did everyone catch that Jon could not speak against (no post denying it, or a response post that has him “catching” me, like I care but with no rebuttal) what I posted about 2 Timothy. Proof that 2 Timothy doesn’t support “the Bible Alone” Then why were you looking for something there in the post? Or why did you care to Google my post?

Jon is the plagiarizing police. Watch out if there’s something he can’t speak about he’ll Google your post. Then try and give you’re a ticket.

Let me tell you that I don’t care that everyone knows that I plagiarize. Last time I checked, I didn’t enroll my self in a college writing class. And just FYI everyone, if you get ideas from the web or pastor or friend, please submit your Works Cited page separate from your post and please have it in MLA format and submit it to Jon.

You don’t get it, Catholics are on the same team are going toward the same end zone. We are all teammates. If a certain play works to score a touchdown then I’ll repeat that play. And there’s nothing you can do about it.

Paul disagrees with you, as the RCC teaches another gospel, and we know we know he and God thought of that!

 

[JonShaff]

What is sad is you think Catholics are not trusting in Christ for their salvation.

Why do y'all re-crucify Him every week? Why is He still portrayed on a Roman Cross?

 

[Walter]

Why do y'all re-crucify Him every week? Why is He still portrayed on a Roman Cross?

We don't 're-crucify' Him. Of course, we have been down this road countless times with you. You just refuse to believe us. At the Last Supper, Christ pre-presented the one sacrifice, so if they could participate in it ahead of time, why can’t we participate in it after that time?

Frank Sheed summarizes Catholic teaching on the point in Theology and Sanity:

"There is no new slaying of Christ in the Mass....Yet that it is the Christ who was slain upon Calvary is shown sacramentally by the separate consecration of bread to become His body and wine to become His blood. The essence of the Mass is that Christ is making an offering to the Father of Himself, who was slain for us upon Calvary. The Mass is Calvary, as Christ now offers it to His Father."

'Hebrews teaches the atoning death of Christ was effective for the remission of sins and hence needed to be offer only once. But this speaks of what theologians call the "objective redemption." It doesn't mean that, since Jesus died for everyone, everyone will get to heaven. (That's universalism.) The merits or the fruits of Christ's death need to be applied to the individual.

When Catholic theologians talk about the Mass being a propitiatory sacrifice for the remission of sins, they mean, among other things, that the objective redemption which Christ's sacrifice on the Cross merited is subjectively applied to the individual through the sacrifice of the Mass.'

"Once for All" | Catholic Answers


As far as your question about depicting Jesus on the cross, why don't you ask Steaver? He does it each time he posts something. His reason for doing so might be very close to mine.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

1 John 511 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It would seem the consensus here from the Catholics is that you must believe in Jesus and keep his commandments, follow him, etc.

My question for these Catholics is do you KNOW that you have eternal life, or do you hope that you continue obeying God's commandments and that you are good enough?

I KNOW that I have eternal life because I have placed my hope and trust in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and he promises that those who believe on him have (PRESENT TENSE) everlasting life.

If you don't KNOW that you have eternal life, than you have no light to give anyone about salvation.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 11:15 PM Pacific.

 

[Davyboy]

If you guys need help in citing work, I used this website in college. Citation Machine: Format & Generate Citations – APA, MLA, & Chicago or you could just google the post like Jon does and you don't even have to bother.

 

[JonShaff]

When Catholic theologians talk about the Mass being a propitiatory sacrifice for the remission of sins, they mean, among other things, that the objective redemption which Christ's sacrifice on the Cross merited is subjectively applied to the individual through the sacrifice of the Mass.'

So, this is what you think applies redemption to sinful man?