Would you stay? 3

[Thinkingstuff]

Yes, I am looking for the Catholic list on what i must do to be saved. Just saying "do what He says" doesn't cut it. Surely Catholics have a structured answer for this. I would hope you would think it is of the utmost importance.

Like I said, I think you are looking for a theological litany of things. But no matter it fundamentally boils down to Believing on the Lord Jesus and doing what he says. Why doesn't that cut it? It worked for his disciples.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Full context...

Luke 18
25Indeed, it is easier for a camel to pass through an eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 26Those who heard this asked,“Who then can be saved?” 27But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”…

Yes God can save a man who's idol has been wealth.

 

[steaver]

First of all. Don't say "how you guys are all over the place" when you only present me with only part of what Adonia said.

I did not misrepresent Adonia, I gave you what he said and the context in which he said it.

I am answering your questions specifically

Not really,

However, it must be stated that the Catholic Church has a singular view where

So let's here it. What must I do to be saved? "Do what Jesus says"? Ok, tell me what Jesus says i must do to be saved?

Members of the Catholic Church that express their views in which some are in line others are not.

On Eternal life? You have liberty to believe differently on this doctrine?

So, that aside don't you believe you must surrender yourself entirely to Jesus Christ?

Define "entirely".

 

[steaver]

Like I said, I think you are looking for a theological litany of things. But no matter it fundamentally boils down to Believing on the Lord Jesus and doing what he says. Why doesn't that cut it? It worked for his disciples.

Well you know it does not cut it because if it did you wouldn't care whether or not Christians submitted to the RCC or not. You are here promoting the RCC as correct and right. So go ahead and tell us the Catholic stand on salvation. Adonia said the sacraments are included for eternal life. Do you agree?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I did not misrepresent Adonia, I gave you what he said and the context in which he said it.



Not really,



So let's here it. What must I do to be saved? "Do what Jesus says"? Ok, tell me what Jesus says i must do to be saved?



On Eternal life? You have liberty to believe differently on this doctrine?



Define "entirely".

Each point
- only after I said I agreed with him which you gave me a part of your conversation with him about faith not salvation
- The answer is the same. Believe on the Lord Jesus and do what he says. If you want to get into a discussion about the nature of salvation then ask that question.
- No you obviously didn't understand what I said which was simple many Catholics voice their opinions some are in line with Church teaching and others are not. We are not free to disagree with the deposit of faith.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Like I said, I think you are looking for a theological litany of things. But no matter it fundamentally boils down to Believing on the Lord Jesus and doing what he says. Why doesn't that cut it? It worked for his disciples.

First of all, believing on the Lord Jesus comes first and is all that is needed for salvation (Acts 16:30-31; Romans 4:4-5); doing what He says will inevitably follow the one who truly believes (e.g. Ephesians 2:8-10).
But I think the point Steaver is making is that if one's faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ and nothing else to save one, that is great.
But if one is trusting in one's baptism, in the 'mass,' in the intercession of the virgin Mary or of other 'saints,' in confession to a priest or, indeed, in one's good works, these are idols, for whatever is not of Christ is idolatry. 'Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved' (Acts 4:12).

 

[steaver]

The answer is the same. Believe on the Lord Jesus and do what he says. If you want to get into a discussion about the nature of salvation then ask that question.

Not asking about the nature of salvation. Asking what I must do to be saved. Catholics tell me I cannot rely upon Scripture Alone. So i ask you, a Catholic, to explain what the RCC's answer is to the question.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Look Steaver the Gospel message is just that simple.

First of all, believing on the Lord Jesus comes first and is all that is needed for salvation (Acts 16:30-31; Romans 4:4-5); doing what He says will inevitably follow the one who truly believes (e.g. Ephesians 2:8-10).
But I think the point Steaver is making is that if one's faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ and nothing else to save one, that is great.
But if one is trusting in one's baptism, in the 'mass,' in the intercession of the virgin Mary or of other 'saints,' in confession to a priest or, indeed, in one's good works, these are idols, for whatever is not of Christ is idolatry. 'Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved' (Acts 4:12).

What does Salvation mean to you?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Not asking about the nature of salvation. Asking what I must do to be saved. Catholics tell me I cannot rely upon Scripture Alone. So i ask you, a Catholic, to explain what the RCC's answer is to the question.

Now you are jumping topics. You asked what you needed to do to be saved. It really is simple believe on the Lord Jesus and do what he says. Then you jump to Scripture Alone. You can't possible believe me to accept that you think scripture alone saves you. A man can read the bible from cover to cover and unless they have faith they are no closer to salvation than one who does not read it. Scripture Alone is a statement from the reformation on what is authoritative. A different topic all together.

 

[steaver]

You asked what you needed to do to be saved. It really is simple believe on the Lord Jesus and do what he says

If it is so simple, you could tell me what Jesus says to do to be saved? You keep saying do what Jesus says. Ok, tell me what Jesus says to do to be saved? You are Catholic, you claim to have more than the bible to answer these question concerning doctrine. You won't even give me Scripture, let alone what the RCC has taught you concerning what Jesus says we must do to be saved. Please answer, what did Jesus say we must do to be saved according to your Catholic education?

 

[Adonia]

Grape juice is the fruit of the vine. So again, why so dogmatic about alcoholic beverages for communion?

Yes, it is also the fruit of the vine, but that is not what Jesus used at the Last Supper. According to Luke 22:20: "After supper he took another cup of wine and said, “This cup is the new covenant between God and his people—an agreement confirmed with my blood, which is poured out as a sacrifice for you".

Why so dogmatic you ask? Because that is what was used, and that is the truth of the Scripture. One would think that taking the stand of "Sola Scriptura" as you do, you would be dogmatic about it also.

 

[Adonia]

You are here defending the RCC as having all the correct and right answers to these matters of salvation. And yet you yourself have no idea what I must do to be saved.

Hey, you have to do what you have to do and believe what you must for salvation. You know where I stand and I said as much before. Return to orthodox Christianity, live the sacraments, do your best to live a holy life, do good works, pray unceasingly, and look to Christ as Savior and the ultimate example of how one should live. Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself - all just as the Scriptures tell us.

 

[Adonia]

Wow! That is quite a list to be saved. How do you believe you are doing with all of these, and of course all the others you did not list? Are you living in a homeless shelter right now?

I'm trying my best. I do not in a homeless shelter, but darn well near it. When I am home my wife and I live in a RV and when I am out working I live in the cab of my 18 wheeler. Any more questions Mr. Smarty?

 

[Adonia]

Yes. Believe on the Lord Jesus and do what he says. I think, however, you are looking for something else. That is the simple teaching though.

He's looking for a "gotcha', that's all. If you don't answer how he believes then you are simply wrong.

 

[steaver]

You know where I stand and I said as much before. Return to orthodox Christianity, live the sacraments, do your best to live a holy life, do good works, pray unceasingly, and look to Christ as Savior and the ultimate example of how one should live. Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself - all just as the Scriptures tell us.

So I must return to orthodox Christianity to be saved? Is this the consensus of all the Catholics here? Or do you all have a different way to be saved?

 

[steaver]

I'm trying my best. I do not in a homeless shelter, but darn well near it. When I am home my wife and I live in a RV and when I am out working I live in the cab of my 18 wheeler. Any more questions Mr. Smarty?

Just going by what you said about what I must do to be saved, you are the one that said you must give up everything and be homeless. Apparently you are not practicing what you say you believe.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

If it is so simple, you could tell me what Jesus says to do to be saved? You keep saying do what Jesus says. Ok, tell me what Jesus says to do to be saved? You are Catholic, you claim to have more than the bible to answer these question concerning doctrine. You won't even give me Scripture, let alone what the RCC has taught you concerning what Jesus says we must do to be saved. Please answer, what did Jesus say we must do to be saved according to your Catholic education?

Just to be sure when you say "you" do you mean "you" as in me or "you as in Catholic"? It is an important distinction.

In regards to using scripture I can certainly use that to express what Jesus himself has said. Jesus said several things regarding salvation. You asked me what you need to do to be saved and I answered you. It is simple. Believe on the Lord Jesus and do what he says. So now you want to know what does Jesus say about salvation? Well these are some of the things Jesus said regarding salvation:

- Jn 14:6 Jesus said to him "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
- Jn 15:4 Abide in me as I abide in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me.
- Jn 6:53 So Jesus said to them, "Very truly, I tell you unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."
- Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, "Very truly, I tell you no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of the water and the Spirit."

These are just some of the things Jesus said regarding Salvation and the Kingdom of God. He said other things as well. You should know they are all in the bible.

 

[Adonia]

Just going by what you said about what I must do to be saved, you are the one that said you must give up everything and be homeless. Apparently you are not practicing what you say you believe.

I was thinking of the Scripture where Jesus said for the rich guy to give up everything and follow him. Have you done that yourself? If not, why not? Jesus said that was the way to salvation and eternal life.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

He's looking for a "gotcha', that's all. If you don't answer how he believes then you are simply wrong.

I guessed that. He is being obtuse by the questions. The answer is really as simple as I said it. If he wants a theological debate then he needs to ask the questions regarding Grace, Justification, Salvation, etc.. I will be glad to cover those but he asked a simple question the answer is just as simple and true.

 

[steaver]

Just to be sure when you say "you" do you mean "you" as in me or "you as in Catholic"? It is an important distinction.

If you are a Catholic, you would be Catholic.

Well these are some of the things Jesus said regarding salvation:

- Jn 14:6 Jesus said to him "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
- Jn 15:4 Abide in me as I abide in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me.
- Jn 6:53 So Jesus said to them, "Very truly, I tell you unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."
- Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, "Very truly, I tell you no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of the water and the Spirit."

Well, now we are getting somewhere. Could you expound on 6:53, how the person who wants to be saved would go about obeying this?

These are just some of the things Jesus said regarding Salvation and the Kingdom of God. He said other things as well. You should know they are all in the bible.

The bible is all I have, along with the Holy Spirit indwellement. Is this enough to understand Jn 6:53?