Would you stay? 4

[Walter]

Not OSAS , its that the death of jesus covers all of our sins, correct?

Correct

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I merely quoted the appropriate Scripture as to what element must be used during Holy Communion, and whether you obey or not is entirely up to you. As for "being saved" I have tried to enlighten you time and time again that it is not just one thing that concerns salvation, it is the entirety of the things mentioned in the Scriptures that tells us how we get salvation.

Baptism now saves you says the Scriptures; eating His body and blood saves you says the Scriptures; having faith saves you says the Scriptures; doing good works save you says the Scriptures; loving others saves you says the Scriptures; obeying the commandments says the Scriptures, not one thing, but the whole panoply of what the Scriptures say.

John 11:26. "And whoever lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
Acts 16:31. 'So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."'
Romans 4:5. 'But to him who does not work but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.'
Romans 10:9. '.....That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.'

 

[utilyan]

John 11:26. "And whoever lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
Acts 16:31. 'So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."'
Romans 4:5. 'But to him who does not work but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.'
Romans 10:9. '.....That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.'

"Acts 16:31. 'So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."'

^that can't be right, Isn't it When you are saved you will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[Adonia]

Do you believe this?"

Of course.

"And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you". "Repent and be baptized". "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved". Do you believe these words?

So we can clearly see that baptism is not an option for the believer. The words "now saves", "be baptized" and "and is baptized" show that the one option of "just believing" you presented above will not suffice for salvation. I hold to my previous opinion that not one thing saves us, but the many things that are written in the Scriptures.

 

[Yeshua1]

"Acts 16:31. 'So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."'

^that can't be right, Isn't it When you are saved you will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ?

Nope. more like "since God gas quickened you to be able now to believe unto Jesus and be saved"

 

[Yeshua1]

Of course.

"And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you". "Repent and be baptized". "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved". Do you believe these words?

So we can clearly see that baptism is not an option for the believer. The words "now saves", "be baptized" and "and is baptized" show that the one option of "just believing" you presented above will not suffice for salvation. I hold to my previous opinion that not one thing saves us, but the many things that are written in the Scriptures.

He who believes now is damned, correct?
How much water did the thief on the cross get?
How many people in the Bible did Jesus baptize? Why did paul state that he thanked God for not baptising that many?

 

[steaver]

Baptism now saves you says the Scriptures; eating His body and blood saves you says the Scriptures; having faith saves you says the Scriptures; doing good works save you says the Scriptures; loving others saves you says the Scriptures; obeying the commandments says the Scriptures, not one thing, but the whole panoply of what the Scriptures say.

Thank you for your clarity on the Catholic position, at least on your version of the Catholic position, as we see here on this board there are many. Pretty much a direct contradiction to "by grace ye have been saved and this not of yourselves". According to your pov it is most certainly "of yourselves". Basically the same as Joseph Smith taught, works is King.

 

[steaver]

What is the Hebrew word for "FOR"?

The choices are only God and Satan? What about Sponge Bob?

You are trying to read in PAGAN human sacrifice philosophies. God is not bound by any physical, spiritual or legal mechanics.


God is Good, the problem is he is way BETTER then you claim he is. Your shooting for such a low low bar.

You expect way too much justified evil from God.


God is not a angry chimp that throws a fit. Your expectations of him is insulting.

Nice speech! But you forgot to answer the question. Who wounded Christ for our transgressions? God or Satan? I will add If Neither than who?

 

[steaver]

"Acts 16:31. 'So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."'

^that can't be right, Isn't it When you are saved you will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ?

Yes, according to your answer of God saving Paul a few pages back.

 

[steaver]

So we can clearly see that baptism is not an option for the believer. The words "now saves", "be baptized" and "and is baptized" show that the one option of "just believing" you presented above will not suffice for salvation. I hold to my previous opinion that not one thing saves us, but the many things that are written in the Scriptures.

This is strange. Your Catholic view is if a person does not get baptized that person will not be saved. Utilyan's Catholic view is just love God (whatever that means to you) and love others and you will be saved, don't even need to believe on Jesus Christ. (remember he gave the Paul getting saved example, that God chooses some to save and others to not, according to nothing the person does, not even believing on Jesus)

 

[Adonia]

This is strange. Your Catholic view is if a person does not get baptized that person will not be saved. Utilyan's Catholic view is just love God (whatever that means to you) and love others and you will be saved, don't even need to believe on Jesus Christ. (remember he gave the Paul getting saved example, that God chooses some to save and others to not, according to nothing the person does, not even believing on Jesus)

My Catholic view? It's the Scripture's view of salvation, God's words - not mine. There is no "you may be baptized if you so desire" no, it's a command, it's part and parcel of being a Christian, of "being saved" as you would say. Why do you deny all that is written and focus on but one thing that is said in the Holy Writ? I don't understand this at all.

 

[Adonia]

According to your pov it is most certainly "of yourselves". Basically the same as Joseph Smith taught, works is King.

No, not at all. Our whole worship service is built around the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, His sacrifice for our gain. But when you start reading the Scriptures there are many other things in there that is required of the Christian. How can you deny this?

 

[steaver]

My Catholic view? It's the Scripture's view of salvation, God's words - not mine.

Yes, your Catholic view. You are here on a board that has a Baptist view, where none of the things you listed saves a person except for faith in Jesus Christ. Thus, you believe all the Baptist on this board cannot be saved by default. You can't say the scripture says you must do all that you listed to be saved and not believe Baptist are all lost.

 

[Yeshua1]

My Catholic view? It's the Scripture's view of salvation, God's words - not mine. There is no "you may be baptized if you so desire" no, it's a command, it's part and parcel of being a Christian, of "being saved" as you would say. Why do you deny all that is written and focus on but one thing that is said in the Holy Writ? I don't understand this at all.

Saved by Grace alone/faith alone!

 

[utilyan]

Is there any possibility that the Bible never states "GOD POURED OUT HIS WRATH ON JESUS CHRIST" because it doesn't want to give the false impression that God poured out his wrath on Jesus Christ?

How about providing scripture to support this Fake Gospel?

Is there a verse that says God poured out his wrath on Jesus? YES OR NO.

 

[Yeshua1]

Is there any possibility that the Bible never states "GOD POURED OUT HIS WRATH ON JESUS CHRIST" because it doesn't want to give the false impression that God poured out his wrath on Jesus Christ?

How about providing scripture to support this Fake Gospel?

Is there a verse that says God poured out his wrath on Jesus? YES OR NO.

This would benefit you!
Ligonier Ministries

 

[utilyan]

Nice speech! But you forgot to answer the question. Who wounded Christ for our transgressions? God or Satan? I will add If Neither than who?

Neither. Us.

4Surely our griefs He Himself bore,
And our sorrows He carried;
Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten of God, and afflicted.

The verse you leave out conveniently shows how they think he was smitten by God.




But suppose we were to scribble in falsely what you want it to say:

"God took pleasure in torturing Jesus."

It still doesn't equate to GOD pouring down his WRATH on Jesus.

 

[utilyan]

This would benefit you!
Ligonier Ministries

The answer is YES OR NO.

Do you have anything to back up your fake gospel of being saved by PAYMENT.


We believe in saved by grace not saved by payment.

 

[utilyan]

Would you stay?

We will not accept Unbiblical Terrorist Pagan Angry Chimp gods.

Stop trying to read in false gospels into scripture.


Its like a Nazi Soldier ordered to shoot at civilians. There is a person who never question orders and carries it out, there is another who recognizes evil.

You have a big sugar coat job if you want to convince me to accept a god takes pleasure in torturing innocent people <-literally the verse you tried to shoved down our throat "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him"

You didn't even try to defend God's dignity. I showed you the early church fathers quoting the same verse the wording explaining God was healing him.

 

[Yeshua1]

The answer is YES OR NO.

Do you have anything to back up your fake gospel of being saved by PAYMENT.


We believe in saved by grace not saved by payment.

We as sinners owed to God a sin debt for breaking His law, so someone has to die in order toappease His anger towards that sin!