Wrong Take On Romans 12:3c

[Blammo]

John 6:64-69 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

My first clue.

He knew from the beginning who they were. It's not a contradiction, so...

I'm still working on it. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Jarthur001]

Hello Salamander

Hmmmm? You mean God is a respector of persons?

No, it means God is not a repector of persons, for salvation is not by man. God saves whomever He wises based on His good pleasure. Or that is what the Bible says.

And why would a man answer to God for what God did to that man? Seems God would be the one , to remain just, to have to answer to man.

Election is not about being just.

Romans 9

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

The verse clearly states that God hath given every man the measure of faith. By your estimation, women can't be saved.

?? please tell what you mean

By the estimation that Eph 1:4 is only addressed to the Church at Ephesus, only the Ephesisans were chosen to be in Him before the foundations of the world and everybody else isn't.

Why would you say this?


In Christ..James

 

[Jarthur001]

BTW, your example of Scripture deals with the physical creation, not the spiritual condition.

Tis both.

Look near the top of the chapter and it will tell you what the subject is.

one word...

starts with "E".


In Christ...James

 

[Jarthur001]

Hello TruthSeeker

My God is..and I am a Calvinist. Maybe if you became one, your God would love
too.
Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Agree. But I fail to see a point.

indeed. They go to hell.
[John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Yes...Man must have faith. But I fail to see the point.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Should it say elected there instead of believeth? No don't think so.

No, there is no need to change the Bible, only believe the Bible. Election is not salvation, but unto salvation. One still must believe.

God is Holy and HATES sin. HATES? God can hate? yes..now that we see that in His nature we can apply it to other things..as found in the Bible. BTW..to worship a calf is sin.
I am aware that God hates sin. Without any accountability, what would it matter if you worshipped a cow. Now I am sure you don't worship a cow, don't go getting all bothered.

You like those cows...don't ya? You agree that God hates sin. What is sin? Who sins? Election does not remove accountabilty.

Chill out...maybe you will learn. or..there again..Maybe you will burn me at the stake
1 John 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
I wouldn't burn you at the stake.

I'm glad about the stake. 1 John 4 is talking about God...who loves the church and is telliing the church we should love each other. Unless you want to take it out of context...no, I'm sure you do not.

None
I know of one who would have nothing to do with a God when he believed that God chose some for hell. On that note, if one is predestined for hell, then why create them in the first place?

You need to see this in the right light. All men are lost on on their way to hell. God calls them to repent and be saved. No man comes to God. God elects in mercy. Election never stops any one from going to Heaven who wants to go.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Indeed..and the verse goes with my last point. Thanks



In Christ...James

 

[Brother Bob]

All men are lost on on their way to hell. God calls them to repent and be saved.

Is this true, does God call all men to repent knowing they are dead and can't according to Calvinist? Why would God call all men to repent? I mean I think He does but I didn't know Calvinist believed that.

 

[Blammo]

You need to see this in the right light. All men are lost on on their way to hell. God calls them to repent and be saved. No man comes to God. God elects in mercy. Election never stops any one from going to Heaven.

You forgot something. Right after, "God calls them to repent", you should insert, "God knows they don't have the "will" to do so, and God only grants this "will" to specially selected individuals, excluding the early Chinese."

 

[Jarthur001]

You forgot something. Right after, "God calls them to repent", you should insert, "God knows they don't have the "will" to do so, and God only grants this "will" to specially selected individuals, excluding the early Chinese."

only the Chinese? How about the Aztecs?

 

[TruthSeeker]

I'm glad about the stake. 1 John 4 is talking about God...who loves the church and is telliing the church we should love each other. Unless you want to take it out of context...no, I'm sure you do not.

I fail to see how that is taken out of context.

Speaking of burning people at the stake....Baptists aren't the ones who do that. :laugh:

 

[Blammo]

only the Chinese? How about the Aztecs?

Okay. Them too, who else?

 

[npetreley]

John 6:64-69 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

My first clue.

He knew from the beginning who they were. It's not a contradiction, so...

I'm still working on it. :smilewinkgrin:

Yes, and look at the context. Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said Therefore (don't miss that connecting word, it tells all) said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

 

[Jarthur001]

Okay. Them too, who else?

In the OT time..who knew of the true God? How many nations were given the Law, the prophets, the promise. How many nations in the world did God speak directly to? Are there other revelations from the true God that you know about? Do you think maybe God gave another Bible to the Aztecs? Maybe to the Chinese? How many true Gods are there..and How many revelations though Gods Word do we have? If you can prove to me there are more then one and base it on the only one I know of...then I am wrong.

If not...you tell me how many nations God choose to bless with His revelation. If you do this..you will have your answer.


You see when you view it this way..election is very humbling. For now you must ask..why me??

God did not choose the Jews for they were holy. Nor does He choose men for they are holy. They were just as bad as other nations. Yet God choose to bless them with Gods Word, and all the other nations had no revelations from God as a nation. Now God still spoke to individuals outside of this one nation, but there is not record that I know of, where God spoke to other nations as a whole.

 

[Blammo]

Yes, and look at the context. Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said Therefore (don't miss that connecting word, it tells all) said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Yes, I see that, and I am not forgetting "foreknowledge".

 

[Jarthur001]

Is this true, does God call all men to repent knowing they are dead and can't according to Calvinist? Why would God call all men to repent? I mean I think He does but I didn't know Calvinist believed that.

Indeed we do Bob. The passages like..."whosoever will may come"...is a call to all of mankind to come to Christ. The problem is because of sin in mans life, they see no need for God, or Satan fools them into thinking they can come to Christ later..at anytime. All are invited....yet..."no one seeks after God" (romans 3). Its not like man is trying hard to be saved, and God will not save them. God will save all that comes to Him. The call is out, yet man listens to His father the devil and will not come. Thus...election.

 

[Blammo]

God did not choose the Jews for they were holy. Nor does He choose men for they are holy. They were just as bad as other nations. Yet God choose to bless them with Gods Word, and all the other nations had no revelations from God as a nation. Now God still spoke to individuals outside of this one nation, but there is not record that I know of, where God spoke to other nations as a whole.

What did God ask the chosen to do with His word?

 

[Jarthur001]

What did God ask the chosen to do with His word?

You mean in the OT?

 

[LeBuick]

What did God ask the chosen to do with His word?

Believe it?

 

[Blammo]

Believe it?

Yes, that would be the first thing. Did he tell them to tell others? :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Blammo]

You mean in the OT?

Sure, I think the whosoevers of the OT were called "strangers".

 

[Jarthur001]

Sure, I think the whosoevers of the OT were called "strangers".

ok...and? it seems you are saying the jews were asked by God to GUT to others outside the nation Sharing the faith. Am I reading you right?

Please show me a verse so that we can talk about it.




In Christ...James

 

[Brother Bob]

Indeed we do Bob. The passages like..."whosoever will may come"...is a call to all of mankind to come to Christ. The problem is because of sin in mans life, they see no need for God, or Satan fools them into thinking they can come to Christ later..at anytime. All are invited....yet..."no one seeks after God" (romans 3). Its not like man is trying hard to be saved, and God will not save them. God will save all that comes to Him. The call is out, yet man listens to His father the devil and will not come. Thus...election.

The passages like..."whosoever will may come"...is a call to all of mankind to come to Christ.

So God does call all men to come to Christ, therefore the Scripture that says they can't come unless they are drawn by the Father does include all men? And though they are "dead" they do hear the call?
(Satan fools them into thinking they can come to Christ later..at anytime)

Interesting...