• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Ye must be born again !

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dr. Walter

New Member
Your problem is that you cannot reconcile this verse to the new birth and won't.

1 Thessalonans 1:4-5 and 2 Thessanlonians 2:13-14 easily reconcile the preaching of the gospel with the new birth.

In the first passage the gospel alone does not save anyone. However, when the gospel does not come alone but "in the Holy Spirit and in power" it saves. This "power" is the CREATIVE power of the Holy Spirit whereby we are CREATED in Christ Jesus or the new birth which unites us to the nature of God as children of God.

In the second passage election is "to" salvation THROUGH sanctification (setting apart by) the Holy Spirit AND belief of the truth. The "truth" is defined in verse 14 as the gospel and sanctification of the Spirit is the same as in 1 Thessalonians 1:5 or the EMPOWERMENT of the Gospel by the "power" of the Holy Spirit.

James 1:18 says the same thing - that the new birth occurs by the act of God's will through the spoken empowered word of God just as God spoke light into existence out of darkness so likewise the new birth and gospel connection as in 2 Cor. 4:6.

There is tons of Biblical evidence to support the effectual call of God through the empowering of the gospel so that it becomes the CREATIVE WORD of God that speaks light into the darkness of human nature or life into the spiritual deadness of the human nature.

However, the Holy Spirit must reveal His Word to your mind and heart or you will never receive it BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO receive it because you HATE this truth. I know, because I have been where you are and argued the very same arguments you argue and nothing could convince me but the Word of God revealed to my heart and mind by the Holy Spirit. Yes, I already know your response so just save your breath.
 

savedbymercy

New Member
Jn 12:24

A birth is a continuing of a Father, a Progenitor , of whom they [the seed] take their image after. Remember Gen 5:3-4

3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

The word for beget and begotten in this passage is the Hebrew word yalad and means :

to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail


Remember Jesus words In John 12:24

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jesus here is actually telling us how one is born again, why one is born again. No doubt the Lord Himself is the Corn of Wheat that is about to fall into the ground and die, and if He dies, the resultant effect is that it will bring forth much fruit.

The word bringeth forth is the greek word phero and means:

To produce

The word fruit is the greek word karpos and means:

the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity

Jesus is saying, that if He did not die, He would abide alone as a corn of wheat, but if He dies, This would produce more wheat liken unto Himself, for the law of reproduction is for the seed to bring fort after it's own kind. Lets look at this law put into motion in Gen 1:11-12

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Notice, whose seed was in itself !

Jesus is saying, that as a Corn of Wheat, He has a seed in Himself, and if He dies, this seed of His will be reproduced, it will be brought forth , He will be reproduced. Now how does this reproducing take place ?

Its by being Born Again, receiving a New Birth, His death, His dying, falling into the ground and dying, produces this New Birth, His Spiritual Offspring, His much Fruit.

This is why Peter says in 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jesus Christ is that incorruptible seed [Corn of wheat] of which we are born again. How do we know this ? Because His resurrection from the dead showed that He was incorruptible !

Ps 16:10; Acts 2:27;13:35

And it is by this resurrection of the incorruptible Seed [Corn of wheat] that we [True Believers, Elect] are born again 1 Pet 1:3

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

From the dead ! Remember Jesus said if the Corn of wheat falls into the ground and what ? And dies , be dead. But if it dies , it brings forth much fruit, this Jesus said knowing that He would be raised from the dead. Matt 16:21

From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Matt 17:9

And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

So Jesus knew in Jn 12:24 that He would be risen from the dead as that Corn of wheat that died !
 

savedbymercy

New Member
Being born of incorruptible seed !

1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jesus said to Nicodemus these words Jn 3:7

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he must be born again of [out of] incorruptible seed !

Notice the phrase " but of incorruptible" speaking of seed ! As by Nature all men are born of [out of] corruptible seed.

The word of is the greek word ek a preposition denoting:

A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative

out of, from, by, away from


So ones birth must originate out of an source or cause.

In this case the source must be an incorruptible seed. The word of God, which is Christ, The Logos of God Jn 1:1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Rev 19:13

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

The Incarnate Word Jn 1:14 had a seed in Him, that is Life Jn 1:4

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


This is seed Life and so it is incorruptible seed life.

This Life was in Him , Just as seed life was in Adam which however was corruptible life.

So in the same way one was born of corruptible seed of Adam, so likewise one must be born of incorruptible seed, The Word of God, to partake of Spiritual Life.

But one must have had life already in Adam to have been born out of him, and so likewise, one must have life already in The Logos to be born out of Him.

We know that Life was in Him before the incarnation by Jn 1:4

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The word life is singular and the word men is plural, denoting it was one life for many, a seed Life, a Generation who had life in Him.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Being born of incorruptible seed !

1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
The word of God is absolutely necessary for the new birth. More than any other Scripture none is more clearer than this one.
Being born again...of the word of God.
Jesus said to Nicodemus these words Jn 3:7

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he must be born again of [out of] incorruptible seed !
The incorruptible seed is the word of God (1Pet.1:23). The entire verse must be read.
So in the same way one was born of corruptible seed of Adam, so likewise one must be born of incorruptible seed, The Word of God, to partake of Spiritual Life.

But one must have had life already in Adam to have been born out of him, and so likewise, one must have life already in The Logos to be born out of Him.

We know that Life was in Him before the incarnation by Jn 1:4

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The word life is singular and the word men is plural, denoting it was one life for many, a seed Life, a Generation who had life in Him.
You only have half of the truth.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
--You have described the fact that every man is born with a life from Adam, physical life.

Christ also says:
You must be born of water and of the Spirit.
The "water" refers to the Word of God, as is attested by 1Pet.1:23 and many other Scriptures which I previously posted.
The Spirit is the Holy Spirit. You missed that part in this post.

These are the two agencies that are necessary in the new birth: the Holy Spirit and the Word of God. Without the Spirit working through the Word of God, one cannot be born again.

One must be born physically; that is true.
But one must be born spiritually. For that to be accomplished it is necessary to have the Holy Spirit working through the Word of God to bring one to Christ.
 

billwald

New Member
You missed the part that the Holy Spirit does her regenerating of humans in a fashion which appears to be random and/or invisible to human observers.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
You missed the part that the Holy Spirit does her regenerating of humans in a fashion which appears to be random and/or invisible to human observers.
That is what I don't believe. It is never "random."
Contrary to Calvinistic belief the Bible does say:
"Seek ye the Lord while he may be found."
There is a sense where man is able to seek God. All men must act on the light which he is given, and that light for which he is responsible. Cornelius was "seeking" for the truth about God. The Holy Spirit led someone to tell him about that truth. It was the Holy Spirit at work through the truth of the word of God that brought him to salvation.
 

savedbymercy

New Member
Must have preexisted in Christ to be born again PM


1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Being born again not of corruptible seed [adam] but of incorruptible seed, the word of God [Christ the Logos Jn 1:1,4,14].

Now understand, in order to have been born of adam of corruptible seed, our very existence in the flesh proves or is evidence that God gave us natural physical life in the earthly adam. This means adam was our natural father or progenitor. Now we did not will our way into adam, ask to be in adam, but this was determined by God. God also determined who, when and where our physical life would be manifested by child birth Acts 17:26

26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Ecclesiastes 3:1-2

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

The key here is understanding that in order to have been born physically, God must have purposed and chose in adam, and gave us physical life in him even before it was developed and manifested. Yes, God chose us in adam.

Now, in order to be born of incorruptible seed into a spiritual life, one must have been in Christ the Spiritual Father or Progenitor, we must have been given to Him for His Spiritual Offspring, in other words, we must have been chosen in Him as part of His seed. If one is truly born again, it demonstrates that we were Chosen in Him and God gave us Spiritual Life in Him before the world began. Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9.

So when Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again, in essence Jesus was telling him that he must be one of the chosen ones in Him before the world began. To be born of incorruptible seed, which is Christ, the Logos of God..
 

Dr. Walter

New Member
Must have preexisted in Christ to be born again PM


1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Being born again not of corruptible seed [adam] but of incorruptible seed, the word of God [Christ the Logos Jn 1:1,4,14].

Now understand, in order to have been born of adam of corruptible seed, our very existence in the flesh proves or is evidence that God gave us natural physical life in the earthly adam. This means adam was our natural father or progenitor. Now we did not will our way into adam, ask to be in adam, but this was determined by God. God also determined who, when and where our physical life would be manifested by child birth Acts 17:26

26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Ecclesiastes 3:1-2

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

The key here is understanding that in order to have been born physically, God must have purposed and chose in adam, and gave us physical life in him even before it was developed and manifested. Yes, God chose us in adam.

Now, in order to be born of incorruptible seed into a spiritual life, one must have been in Christ the Spiritual Father or Progenitor, we must have been given to Him for His Spiritual Offspring, in other words, we must have been chosen in Him as part of His seed. If one is truly born again, it demonstrates that we were Chosen in Him and God gave us Spiritual Life in Him before the world began. Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9.

So when Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again, in essence Jesus was telling him that he must be one of the chosen ones in Him before the world began. To be born of incorruptible seed, which is Christ, the Logos of God..

Absolue and complete hogwash! None of these texts assert that garbage! All these texts assert is the eternity of Christ as the Word of God who regenerates thorugh the Holy Spirit empowered word of the gospel making it his creative word to regenerate spiritual dead sinners in Adam making them for their first time children of God.

You cannot possibly make the PHYSICAL parallel to the NATURE OF GOD as that is unthinkable and abominable polythesism. We never existed in any way shape or kind previous to our creation "in Adam" on day six.

There is no preexistent humanity contained within the NATURE of God and make no mistake that the eternal Word is God the Second Person of the Godhead. We had no "seminal" preexistence within His DIVINE NATURE. That is the foolishness of a heretic in the most radical sense.

Furthermore it is entirely based upon pure HUMAN LOGIC and not one iota is explicitely is found stated in God's Word - rather the scripture is INTERPRETED by you to mean that due to HUMAN LOGIC based upon an UNEQUAL comparison between the MATERIAL creation and IMMATIRIAL eternal Divinity.

The only thing Paul is comparing "in adam" versus "in Christ" is that just as the negatives of Adam's representative act are attributed to all PHYSICALLY in Adam so all the positive benefits of Christ's reprsentative act are imputed to all those in Christ. How one obtains "in Christ" is exactly how one obtains "in Adam" by a CREATIVE ACT OF GOD!!!!! We were created in Adam on day six in Genesis 1. We are "created in Christ Jesus" at REGENERATION (Eph. 2:1,5,10) and not one nano second before just as we were not "in Adam" one nanosecond before day six.

However, before creation we were all "in Adam" by divine purpose just as all the elect were "in Christ" by divine purpose but not in any other sense whatsoever.


And SBG we already know your response as it is the generic response of every authentic heretic - simply reassert your text and reassert your disproven interpretation of the text - the parrot act - because you are incapable of any substantive response to the evidence place before your face.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Dr. Walter

New Member
dw



Truth you are not able to receive..

The only "truth" you have established is that you are a poor Bible scholar who knows only how to eisgete a text and then parrot your errors back as though they were truth.

Again, no substance, no contextual truth but pure perversion of the context and proof texts taken out of context that provide only a pretext of truth when in fact only error is the result.

IF you had any truth you could demonstrate that truth by its context rather than just make parrot assertions. This is the mark of all heretics - they have no contextual based responses.
 

savedbymercy

New Member
dw

The only "truth" you have established is that you are a poor Bible scholar

One must have existed in the progenitor before they are manifested by birth. Jesus was given a seed before the world began. Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Redemptively He is the everlasting Father of His seed Isa 9:6


6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

He is called a Father here, not because He is the Father as in the Trinity, but because He had been given a Seed, a offspring Chosen in Him before the world began 2 Tim 1:9


9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
 

Dr. Walter

New Member
dw



One must have existed in the progenitor before they are manifested by birth.

That is only true in the PHYSICAL realm among creatures who are made to REPRODUCE AFTER THEIR KIND! Are you saying God has a SPIRITUAL reproduction system where he reproduces after HIS OWN KIND???? That is polytheism!

You cannot take something from the MATERIAL realm and claim it is EQUAL in the SPIRITUAL realm!!!!



Jesus was given a seed before the world began. Isa 53:10

Not due to sperm! Not due to any kind of reproduction system inherent in the nature of God! The seed in Adam was given by a CREATIVE act and so is the seed "in Christ" - the CREATIVE act of new birth or SECOND BIRTH (Eph. 2:10).


Redemptively He is the everlasting Father of His seed Isa 9:6


6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This text says no such thing. This text says only he is the "EVERLASTING" Father or as the text more literally reads he is the "father of eternity" a claim to absolute deity not a claim to paternity of children! This text is speaking of his incarnation as not the beginning of his existence but rather what was incarnated was a "child" but the son was "given" because He is the Mighty God or Father of eternity as all things originate from Him as God.

2 Tim 1:9


9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This text says no such thing! Note the word "PURPOSE" and in that sense only just as in that sense only we were also GLORIFED in eternity past (Rom. 8:28-30).

Not a singel solitary text explicitly says what you want them to say. You must tell us what they MEAN to you not what they say as none say what you want them to say.
 

savedbymercy

New Member
dw

That is only true in the PHYSICAL realm

You have a scripture that states that ?

Not due to sperm!

It does not have to be due to sperm. Its due to God's Purpose of election. God chose in Christ a Family a Generation 1 Pet 2:9


9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

The seed in Christ was a genration Ps 22:22

30A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

You are not able to think above the natural in these things, thats too bad..
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Dr. Walter

New Member
dw



You have a scripture that states that ?

It is you that makes the unfounded assertion that the NATURE OF GOD as a SPIRIT Being possesses a seminal "seed" within himself!

All the scriptures you quote say nothing of a PRE-creation -eternal "seed" found seminally in the nature of God as a Spirit Being - NONE! You are the one making this wild unbiblical assertion!

If you believe such a thing then why do you not join the MORMONS as that is there very doctrine that we preexisted in God as his spirit children and therefore are waiting to be manifested as Gods.



It does not have to be due to sperm. Its due to God's Purpose of election. God chose in Christ a Family a Generation 1 Pet 2:9

why not? What keeps you from making the parlellism complete???


9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

This text says nothing about a seminal preexistence but rather declares what they NOW are not what they were in eternity past. In the past they were called out "of darkness." Is the Nature of God "darkness" in eternity past! Boy!!

The seed in Christ was a genration Ps 22:22

30A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

You are not able to think above the natural in these things, thats too bad..

Can you read English? Do you see the words "SHALL BE accounted to"????? Do you understand the language? It has nothing to do with HAS BEEN in past eternity.
 

savedbymercy

New Member
A Birth

A Birth is not the Creation or origination of Life, but the manifestation of life and is termed procreation. The natural man that a believer has [ as by nature children of wrath] is also called the old man Eph 4:22; Col 3:9, for this was created in Adam, but procreation by natural generation. That New Man Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Also see New Creature 2 Cor 5:17

Immortal Life in a Believer [Eternal or Everlasting Life], or the inward man as Rom 7:22; 2 Cor 4:16, This Life was given us in Christ Jesus before the World began, and is made manifest by Spiritual Generation when Born of God, and presented with the Gospel, for the Gospel brings this immortal life to light or manifestation 2 Tim 1:9-10

Thats why Jesus says, those believing on Him during His Public Ministry, were having Eternal Life Jn 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Those believing on Him were born of Incorruptible Seed !
 

Dr. Walter

New Member
A Birth

A Birth is not the Creation or origination of Life, but the manifestation of life and is termed procreation. The natural man that a believer has [ as by nature children of wrath] is also called the old man Eph 4:22; Col 3:9, for this was created in Adam, but procreation by natural generation. That New Man Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Also see New Creature 2 Cor 5:17

Immortal Life in a Believer [Eternal or Everlasting Life], or the inward man as Rom 7:22; 2 Cor 4:16, This Life was given us in Christ Jesus before the World began, and is made manifest by Spiritual Generation when Born of God, and presented with the Gospel, for the Gospel brings this immortal life to light or manifestation 2 Tim 1:9-10

Thats why Jesus says, those believing on Him during His Public Ministry, were having Eternal Life Jn 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Those believing on Him were born of Incorruptible Seed !

In other words you are denying that the elect in Christ ever needed to be regenerated as they were already "called" in Christ according to God's purpose before the world began (Rom. 8:30)?????? You are denying they ever needed to be given eternal life because they already were spiritually alive in Christ according to God's purpose before the world began. You are denying they ever need to be glorified in the future because they were already glorified in Christ according to God's purpose before the world began just as they never needed to be justified because they were already justified in Christ according to God's purpose before the world began and that is your whole logical basis for denying they were ever children of wrath or under condemnation at any time because you believe they were already reconciled, justified in Christ according to God's purpose before the world began!!!!!

So according to your foolish thinking the eternal purpose was real and existent while the manifestation of the elect on earth was unreal and non-existent in regard to all of these decrees but only REALIZATION of what they already were by decree!!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Dr. Walter

New Member
dw



Where did I post that ?

You posted that the elect were never under condemnation because they were justified "in Christ" before the world began did you not?

However, Romans 8:28-30 includes "called" along with "justified" in God's purpose in Christ before the world began. Since it is the eternal purpose in Christ before the world began that forms the basis of your argument that the elect were never condemned then you are forced to take the same position on every other aspect listed in Romans 8:28-30 as you cannot pick and choose because they all together within that eternal purpose in Christ before the world began.

The term "called" is the effectual call or regeneration. Hence, if the elect were never condemned but "justified" in Christ and reconciled in Christ before the world began they must have been "called" (regenerated) and "glorified" sinless "in Christ" before the world began.

Thus to argue on the basis of God's eternal purpose in Christ the elect were NEVER under condemnation is to necessarily argue the same is true for all other stated aspects in Christ found in God's eternal purpose.

Hence, to be consistent you must equally argue that the elect were NEVER unregenerate because they had already been "called" in Christ before the world began.

Hence, to be consistent you must equally argue that the elect were NEVER unglorified because they had already been "glorified" in Christ before the world began.

Hence, to be consistent you must equally argue that the elect were NEVER condemned because they had already been "justified" in Christ before the world began.

Every single one of these aspects are listed by Paul within God's eternal purpose in Christ in Romans 8:28-30 "according to God's purpose" in Christ.

who are the called according to his purpose.
29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


Note that being "called" is inseperable from having been "justified" and thus you cannot argue the elect were NEVER under condemnation because they had already been "justified" in Christ according to God's eternal purpose and not argue equally the elect were NEVER unregenerate because they were also "called" according to God's eternal purpose in Christ Jesus and finally you must take the position the elect were NEVER unglorified in Christ according to God's eternal purpose because Paul explicitly says they had already been "glorified" in Christ according to God's eternal purpose!

You cannot pick and choose because ALL these aspects are listed by Paul EQUALLY in Christ according to God's purpose before the world began.

Hence, if you continue to argue that the elect were NEVER undercondemnation because they had been already "justified" in Christ according to God's eternal purpose before the world began than you must equally argue they were NEVER unregenerate or unglorified as well.
 

Dr. Walter

New Member
dw



Yes I posted that, but not that they were never born sinners, dont lie on me.

The basis for posting that is that you believe they were justified in Christ before the world began! However, the same scripture demands they were also glorified in Christ before the world began and called in Christ before the world began!!! You have no Biblical basis to teach they were never under condemnation unless you also embrace they were never unglorified and never unregenerated as both "called" and "glorified" are found inseparable to "justified" in Christ before the world began (Rom. 8:28-30).

Can you read and understand English?????? They were born into this world as sinners just as you say because they were born into this world CONDEMNED under sin by the Law and born UNJUSTIFIED and born UNREGENERATED and born UNGLORIFIED! You cannot pick and choose but that is exactly what you are trying to do.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top