Yos can't lose salvation!

[AAA]

A very good book which addresses this is Grace Gone Wild! by Pastor Robert Jeffress.

In it he defends Grace as the source for all salvation but he doesn't allow it to be a source for excuses for waywardness and vice (i.e. Antinomianism). In our day I believe it such antinomianism has driven many from the Gospel and others in the Church into a feeble lukewarm Christianity where the answers to slavery and bondage to a sinful life is not preached. Some would say that Grace is to no effect for those seeking relief from addictions but our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was a healer and he can and will heal his followers so we can look to a life not bound to sin but bound to Christ's Cross. Amen.

Thanks for the book reference. I have to check it out. Theres not to many people out there that will preach holiness, and sinning not, because it is the grace of God that teachesnus to say NO to ungodliness....

 

[AAA]

HP: Was Adam a child of God before the fall?

well, he was NOT achild of the devil. Was HE?

 

[AAA]

Thanks...n/t

You made some excellent points. I would add that you are sealed by the Spirit. If one has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His (never was); If one has the Spirit of Christ he/she is sealed. Having been involved in trucking, I can tell you that a seal cannot be broken except by the receiving party. That "party" in this case is the Lord Jesus Christ. You do not, cannot, break His seal!
One big objection to eternal security is that God does not take away our free choice. But that is not the way to look at it. Once saved the God-believer relationship is Parent-child, and God knows how to parent! The one that is in Christ is a child of God and can not be otherwise at the whim of the child, no more than he/she can ever be a child of anyone other than their natural parents.
Would any parent here stand by and just watch while their child drinks poison? Well. rebellion, unbelief, willful sin is poison and God will deal with that, even if it means the loss of this life. If one can seemingly walk away and they have no trouble with this, it is indicative of a person who never was saved and it does not matter how much fruit that person may have displayed in the past.
Also consider that the Lord Jesus said that His sheep will not listen to another voice. Human philosophy, the teachings of cults, the "...doctrines of devils and things taught by demons," or whatever else may be trying to convince a believer to abandon the faith are "other" voices.

thanks..............

 

[AAA]

HP you are a nut beating a dead horse! If the "salvation" you have isn't eternally secure then you are in trouble.

Anyone that believe it can be lost is in trouble.....that's just my humble opinion...

 

[BobRyan]

The Security of the Believer is in CHRIST, not one's self.

If a person could lose their salvation by doing bad deeds, then, logic would dictate that they can gain it back by their good deeds as well, and this is a salvation by man made works, and NOT the GRACE of GOD!

Who or what can pluck us from the Father's hand? No one and nothing (John 10:28-29).

Who or what can separate us from the love Christ? Nothing (Romans 8).

When does a child of GOD become unborn?

When did Adam "The son of God" according to Luke 3:38 become "uncreated"?? "unborn"?? "unson"??

Now back to scripture.

Let's start with Matt 18 and forgiveness revoked in that chapter alone OSAS is debunked.

then go to John 15 - branches cast out of the vine of Christ - in that one chapter alone OSAS is debunked.

Then go to Romans 11 and the reference to those who like the Jews would be removed from Christ and yet Christ is "able to graft them in again IF THEY do not CONTINUE in unbelief" - in that chapter ALONE OSAS is debunked.

Shall I go on - or is this enough to start some Bible interest in the "inconvenient facts" of scripture?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[AAA]

test yourselves

There is no objective test for election.

Then why does the bible say test yourselfs to see rather or not you are in the faith?

 

[AAA]

HP: If there was, could one be saved by faith?

Then why does the bible say test yourselfs to see rather or not you are in the faith?

Then why does the bible say test yourselfs to see rather or not you are in the faith? or do you believe this command from GOD is impossible to obey?

 

[AAA]

If i were to ask this question:
Which is true
a)5+5=9
b)2+7=4
c)7+7=3
d)9-1=5
How would you answer this?
I would have to say there are no right answers to wrong questioins.
If ask I a person could loose their salvation I would respond the same with there are no wrong answers to wrong questions.

I have no idea why anyone would want to loose their salvation so why should I respond to anyone that ask if you could loose their salvation. I have never wanted to loose my salvation.

That is food for thought, but we have to answer the question of: Losing salvation, because we are to defend the faith. If a person could lose thier salvation then salvation by GRACE is false, and this is the reason why we have to give an answer to those teachers that would pervert the gosple of grace....

We can never lose it...AMEN!

 

[AAA]

Yos can't lose salvation!

I'm glad it ain't like excess weight, then.

Funny...................lol

:laugh:

 

[AAA]

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it. - Matthew 13:45-46 KJV

I ask myself 'am I like the merchant... have I went and sold all that I have to purchase it'? :tear:

Can a theif come in and steal the purchased item?

Can some one pluck you from the Father's hand? NO

 

[Oasis]

AAA

Quote:
Originally Posted by donnA
good post....


AAA-Thanks, i feel sorry for those who can't have the assurance of thier salvation, because they are so afraid of losing it......

DITTO AAA.

 

[gekko]

AAA-Thanks, i feel sorry for those who can't have the assurance of thier salvation, because they are so afraid of losing it.

i know i have an assurance of salvation - i know that at the time i be pushin up daisies - that i'll be with my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

but i also know the following - what i posted before:

i don't believe that once you know someone - that you can just choose NOT to know them. it's not possible.

for example - you meet a friend and you get to know them real good for the next two years.

then something happens and you decide to "un-know" them... it just doesn't work. you still will know that person even if you don't want to.
..........

BUT. there is always the possiblity (and this is scriptural) of not being friends or having relations with that person at all. you can "deny" that person any relations with you.

just like that one verse says "if we deny Him, He will deny us before His Father" (something like that).

i believe that people who were once christians - can't become atheists. it's not possible.

BUT i do believe that people who were once christians can go away and deny Christ - deny that he ever rose from the dead etc. etc. -- to turn away from Christ and go to other 'gods' - other religions.

and it's in that case where i would look at that person and not see Christ - in other words - they wouldn't be christians. because they've turned away and gone astray to other gods. false gods.

..........

i believe this because it's exactly what has happened to my dad.

my dad was once a very strong christian.
then he got into researching judaism (he blames it on the lack of power within the churches these days) - and turned over to judeaism (sp? haha)

i know for a fact that he's not a christian now. he's denied Christ and all that He is. and has turned over to orthodox Judaism.
..........

that is the only way where i can see how somebody can lose salvation.
"if it's able to be gained - it's possible to be lost" or something like that.

but i don't believe that somebody can go from knowing God to not-knowing God. not possible - not logical.

God bless.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

AAA-Thanks, i feel sorry for those who can't have the assurance of thier salvation, because they are so afraid of losing it......

HP: Help me understand your sorrow.

I am happily married to my wife. I trust in her and she trusts in me. We have a loving commitment with each other. Our relationship is based on faith and trust. It is not set in stone. If it was, and there was no possibility of losing the relationship, I might as well love a rock as my wife.

Now tell me why you would feel sorry for me when I cannot be 100% assured that our marriage will last a lifetime? I do not walk around in fear that our relationship is on the brink of disaster, and I have a full assurance that it will indeed last,……IF I keep my commitment to our marriage and my wife keeps hers. I still, inspite of the possibilities otherwise, rest in loving commitment to my wedding vows and again remain confident of our relationship. If you feel sorrow for me, your sorrow is unfounded. I am having the time of my life with the love of my youth! I love her!!

You inject a notion of being afraid of losing our relationship with the Lord. That is true in a sense, just as I am afraid, in a sense, that if I fail to keep my commitment to my wife our marriage could end, just the same I do not walk around in fear. I walk in loving obedience to my commitment, and trust in my wife to do the same. That is love, not worrisome fear.

When I drive down the road, I have a healthy fear of failing to pay attention to my driving, and that I could indeed have a wreck. Just the same, I do not turn my knuckles white holding onto the steering wheel thinking, “I am going to have a wreck! I am going to have a wreck!” Far from it. I try and think safety as I drive, and try my best to allow my full attention to my driving, the best that lieth within me. A healthy fear should breed caution and attentiveness. It is not a bad thing, but rather may serve to be the means by which I avoid an accident.

“Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.”

 

[AAA]

AAA

Amen!:thumbs:


I'd like to add some food for thought. If the gift of Salvation was imperfect, then obviously it could be forfeited or lost, but it was God in the flesh(the creator of the universe), not some ordinary human being, who lowered himself for us and died on the cross for us. Unfortunately, the majority of people pollute the perfect gift of Jesus Christ by trying to add something to it. This only serves to nullify what Christ did on the cross. Paul's whole letter to the Galatians addressed this problem, and it is just as bad today as it was then.

The next time you hear someone say they've given/forfeited their faith because,
-It's been a rough year.
-My car just keeps breaking down.
-I'm plagued by illness.
-I've lost a loved one.
-God just isn't answering my prayers, so He must not be there.
etc...
Ask them where that verse in the Bible is where Jesus says,
"Wanna be a Christian?
Then, Hey! Hey! Hey!
Come Partay!"

You just wont find it. People, the life of a Christian is not all giggles and goosebumps. What did Jesus really say?
Look at John 15:18:
"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first."
Then in verse 20 Jesus says,
"...If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also."
This is one of several warnings of the consequences of following Christ.

Anybody here ever read Foxes Book of Martyrs? It is a record of some of the thousands of Christians throughout history who have been tortured and executed because they would not recant the name of Jesus Christ. Even though we don't hear much about it, there are more Christians dying today than there were then.

How about the Disciples? Does anybody know what happened to them?
-Philip was scourged and crucified.
-Matthew was nailed to the ground with spikes and beheaded.
-Jude was beaten to death with sticks and clubs.
-Simon was tortured and crucified.
-John, the son of Zebedee, was tortured and exiled.
-James, the brother of John, was beheaded.
-James, the brother of Jesus, was pushed from the top of a building and then his broken body was beaten to death.
-Andrew, Peter's brother, hung on a cross for three days before dying.
-Bartholomew was beaten and skinned alive before being beheaded.
-Thomas was speared with a javelin.
-Peter was crucified upside down.

Just a note on Peter. He asked to be crucified upside down because he felt he wasn't worthy to be crucified right-side up as the Savior was.
And just so the ladies don't feel left out--Peter's wife was crucified just before he was, and he was forced to stand and watch her die. It has been said(and I've not been able to confirm this)that until she died, Peter kept repeating over and over to her,
"Remember the Lord. Remember the Lord. Remember the Lord...."

Now, you might be saying,
"Good heavens, why would I want to be a Christian?"
Why did these people listed above and how have people down through history remained faithfull and been willing to die for Jesus Christ?
They were convicted that Jesus Christ was and is Lord, and He promised them and us he would return for them and us. They kept looking up. Our joy as Christians lies not in what we will gain now; today. It is in what we will gain in eternity. These people knew it and many suffered horribly for it, and Christians today continue to suffer for it.

The next time you question your faith in God, remember, He didn't promise us Heaven on earth, He promised us eternal life with Him in Heaven. That's eternal immortality. That's where our joy is. Gene Rodenberry's imagination doesn't hold a candle to John's description in Revelation 21 and 22 of Heaven.

Paul sums all this up in Romans,
"As it is written:
'For your sake we face death all day long:
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.'
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, not anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."-Romans 8:36-39 NIV

That's the conviction that each and everyone of us should have if we are Christians. We don't need more truths to be convicted of, we need more conviction of the Truth we have. Because Jesus Christ was heaven sent, Christians are Heaven bound.

Thanks for that food for thought

 

[Hope of Glory]

To ask whether or not one was ever saved to begin with is nothing more than a cop-out response and a weak one at that.

It sure does sound good, though!

And it keeps you from having to work hard and study.

 

[AAA]

To ask whether or not one was ever saved to begin with is nothing more than a cop-out response and a weak one at that. If that’s the standard response then how does any of us know we are truly saved, for we don’t know what future circumstances could affect our relationship with God.

"A cop-out"...before anyone can prove that someone lost thier salvation, they must first prove that they had salvation in the first place...and that takes a lot of study on those that believe that they can lose salvation.

I also don’t believe that anyone or thing can pluck me from God’s hand, but I do believe that we still have the freedom to jump from His hand if we choose too.

Who would want to jump from the hands of GOD into the fires of hell? Those who do not believe (John 3:16 believeth- is in the present tense) in JESUS christ will not be saved, because all of them gave up the salvation of the Lord.

I love the woman I’m married to and we both nurture our relationship in many ways that ensures that our relationship will continue to grow until death do us part. But, my wife could still choose in the future to leave me and break our relationship…I will still love her and desire a relationship with her, but if she’s moved on and no longer loves me, then our relationship has been broken and she’s turned her back on me

This is how I look at my relationship with God. God loves me and desires that not only I, but also all of mankind will be saved. I have been saved, I am being saved and I have the hope that when I draw my last breath I will be saved. As long as I nurture my relationship with God through prayer, and the Sacraments that Christ gave His Church, then the odds in me turning my back on God are slim to none.

It is not about nurturing your relationship with prayer and the SACRAMENTs that the LORD gave the church, Salvation is GOD saving a person by GRACE through faith in the shed blood of HIS SON Jesus Christ....No amount of sacraments keeping is able to save you...Salvation is by GRACE, not your works (sacrament keeping) Read Titus 3:5....

God will never turn His bock on Agnus_Dei, but as Paul says, we must work out our own salvation with both fear and trembling.

It says: "work out" and NOT "try to keep our salvation", because we are kept by God's GRACE through the power of the HOLY SPIRIT and HE has sealed us until the day of redeemtion!

 

[Hope of Glory]

Who would want to jump from the hands of GOD into the fires of hell? Those who do not believe (John 3:16 believeth- is in the present tense) in JESUS christ will not be saved, because all of them gave up the salvation of the Lord.

So, what does it mean to perish in John 3:16?

 

[Oasis]

Hope of Glory

So, what does it mean to perish in John 3:16?

Hi Hope,

It means to go to an eternal hell that was not originally created for anyone but Satan and his fallen angels(demons).
Read the next verse.
"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." vs. 17 NIV

 

[BobRyan]

When did Adam "The son of God" according to Luke 3:38 become "uncreated"?? "unborn"?? "unson"??

Now back to scripture.

Let's start with Matt 18 and forgiveness revoked in that chapter alone OSAS is debunked.

then go to John 15 - branches cast out of the vine of Christ - in that one chapter alone OSAS is debunked.

Then go to Romans 11 and the reference to those who like the Jews would be removed from Christ and yet Christ is "able to graft them in again IF THEY do not CONTINUE in unbelief" - in that chapter ALONE OSAS is debunked.

Shall I go on - or is this enough to start some Bible interest in the "inconvenient facts" of scripture?

One more point - "assurance of salvation" is not based on games you play in your mind about "people being unborn". According to Rom 8:16 it is a literal transaction and objective confirmaiton "The Spirit bears WITNESS with our spirit that WE ARE the children of God".

Talking yourself into something is not the point. In Matt 7 we see the vast majority "convinced" that they are saved when they are not.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Hope of Glory

Hi Hope,

It means to go to an eternal hell that was not originally created for anyone but Satan and his fallen angels(demons).
Read the next verse.
"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." vs. 17 NIV

Matt 25:41?

34 ""Then the King will say to those on His right, "Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 "For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
37 ""Then the righteous will answer Him, "Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38 "And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39 "When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 "" The King will answer and say to them, "Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
41 ""Then He will also say to those on His left, " Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire (everlasting fire KJV) which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
44 ""Then they themselves also will answer, "Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
45 ""Then He will answer them, "Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'