Revelation 20:11-15
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You can be a Christian and deny essential doctrine
- Thread starter evangelist6589
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What is there to mediate?
The broken relationship between God and man. (That is pretty basic stuff.)
A mediator is one who intervenes between two persons who are at variance, with a view to reconcile them. This word itself is not found in the Old Testament; but the idea is found in Job 9:33 , in the word "daysman" (KJV) or "umpire" (in the KJV margin and the WEB).
The word is used in the New Testament to indicate a go-between, or an ambassador, one who acts as a middle man for communication between two parties in conflict. It is in this sense that Moses is called a mediator in Galatians 3:19.
I have to admit to some surprise that so few Baptist Board participants are familiar with the biblical concept of the Mediatorial Kingdom and those who served, or will serve, as Mediator/Kings.
Nothing surprises me anymore.
I wanted Y1 to explain how he viewed forgiveness in the present as when we sin we have a Mediator; if we confess God is faithful to forgive, etc.
Our fellowship state between us and God, for our relationship is eternal, but fellowship between us will be hindered/blocked until, confession of our sins to God..
I see. So you do not ask that your sins be forgiven because they were long before you were born. Instead you ask that this relationship which is not technically based on unforgiven sins be restored. The focus being on you and your conscience as nothing is held against you as a "sin debt".
No, I ask for my sins to be forgiven in order NOT to have the relationship restored, for that was a done deal once saved, but to keep my fellowship intact!
I understand - it is essentially going through the motions....a mental exercise with no consequence at all because Jesus already took that break in fellowship upon Himself at the Cross. You are "playing the game" that Jesus spoke of as "asking for forgiveness".
I understand - it is essentially going through the motions....a mental exercise with no consequence at all because Jesus already took that break in fellowship upon Himself at the Cross. You are "playing the game" that Jesus spoke of as "asking for forgiveness".
Jesus death paid for my sin debt in full, allowing God to credit His right standing towards me and declare me forever saved, but still MUST confess and repent to be able to have the blessings that come about from relationship with God!
IF I refuse to confess my known sins to God, I will stay in rebellion towards Him, and will not be in a state to receive His blessings...
How? Isn't sin itself rebellion against God? Did Jesus not experience the consequences of your sins, to include that break in fellowship? Why did Jesus and Paul pretend we still needed forgiveness for the sins we commit in this lifetime?
Yes, but requires me to ask for that to be applied towards me!
So Christ's death was potential and you need the results to be applied to you by asking for it? If you don't ask you are not forgiven?
I am forgiven as to my sins in full, but I cannot willingly sin and keep fellowship with God, King david wrote many psalms about that!
But Jesus and Paul taught that when we sinned we still needed forgiveness. That's what's so fascinating about neo-Calvinism. The more you build on your theory the less it resembles Scripture.
John writes directly, unapologetically, and compactly:
13These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.
16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.17All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.
18We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. 19We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. 20And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
13These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.
16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.17All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.
18We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. 19We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. 20And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
God has already FULLY credited us for all sins past/present/future, but if we refuse to deal with sins in our lives, we will hinder our receiving oyr blessings and maturing in christ, will get stuck!
I see.....so we basically control God and hinder Him from blessing us in this life and control how He acts towards us but we are already forgiven so there is really no repentance necessary in terms of sins in need of forgiveness. That's a pretty neat theology.
It isn't what the Bible says at all, but hey....you already knew that from all the requests for you to provide Scripture.
I've kinda been messing with you - I know what you believe. BUT you cannot provide Scripture for the basis of your belief here because what you believe is not in the Bible. This leaves you with a skewed view of the Cross, of redemption, and of forgiveness. It is unfortunate, but I understand this is just how it is.
What I recommend is that you take the time to look up all of the verses mentioned in these threads and highlight the passages that actually state that God was wrathful towards Christ, that Christ suffered what the lost will at Judgment, etc. I guarantee you there will be nothing highlighted when you are done.
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