You can be saved without the Gospel???

[PB Brother Tony]

Where do we have any support in Scripture for this? We don't. Is this not heresy?

Tony, if you don't mind me asking, what does the PB stand for?... Brother Glen

Primitive Baptist

 

[tyndale1946]

Primitive Baptist

I KNEW IT!... There are a few of us here!... Welcome Brother Glen

 

[PB Brother Tony]

No, what I am waiting to see if people here honestly believe you can be saved without hearing about the good news of Christ as the quote I posted in the OP seems to suggest. I condemn it as heresy if that is what he is suggesting.

Faith is a gift from the Holy Ghost and we do not receive our gifts until the new birth (regeneration) is complete? So how can a dead man believe in the Gospel?

1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Romans 3:11 KJV
[11] There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

These verses are prime examples that prior to the new birth we don’t want anything to do with God, we don’t care for Him, nor do we search for Him.

 

[PB Brother Tony]

I KNEW IT!... There are a few of us here!... Welcome Brother Glen

Thank you brother!

Does this website have an app?

 

[PB Brother Tony]

We actually have evidence of that in Scripture. Cornelius. But someone was still sent to him with the Gospel.

We actually have evidence of that in Scripture. Cornelius. But someone was still sent to him with the Gospel.

True! Someone was eventually sent but Cornelius showed signs of someone who has experienced the new birth before the Gospel appeared and we know that the natural man cannot do that.

Also consider John The Baptist, he was filled with the Holy Ghost in his mother’s womb and there’s no way that he heard the Gospel.

 

[percho]

Do we hear the gospel in order to be saved or do we hear the gospel in order to know how we were saved?

Do we hear and then save ourselves or do we hear how we were saved?

Acts 4:12,11,10 tells us how, being saved, we shall be saved. IMHO

 

[Alan Gross]

No because:

Gospel Is Not Involved In Regeneration


The Condition of Man precludes it:


a) The gospel cannot help those who are dead (Gen 2:17; Eph 2:1-3; Col 2:13).


b) The gospel cannot help those who cannot see it (John 3:3; II Cor 4:3-4).


c) The gospel cannot help those who cannot hear it (John 8:43,47; Acts 7:57).


d) The gospel cannot help those who cannot understand it (John 8:43; II Tim 2:25).


e) The gospel cannot help those who will not understand it (Rom 3:11; II Pet 3:5).


f) The gospel cannot help those who will not seek God (Ps 14:2-3; Rom 3:11).


g) The gospel cannot help those who cannot please God (Rom 8:8; 3:12; Is 64:6).


h) The gospel cannot help those who cannot be subject to it (Rom 8:7; Jer 13:23).


i) The gospel cannot help even if one preached from the dead (Luke 16:31).


j) The gospel cannot help those who are beyond any reformation (Isa 26:10).


k) The gospel cannot help those beyond the Spirit’s influence (1 Cor 2:14).


l) The gospel cannot help those at war with the Spirit (Gal 5:17; Acts 7:51).


m) The gospel cannot help those at war with God (Rom 5:8; 8:7; Luke 19:14).


n) The gospel cannot help those without any fear of God (Rom 3:18; Ps 36:1).


o) The gospel cannot help those that do not have any faith (Heb 11:6; Ps 10:4).


p) The gospel cannot help those who think it is foolishness (1 Cor 1:18,23; 2:14).


q) The gospel cannot help those whose minds are blinded by Satan (2 Cor 4:3-4).


r) The gospel cannot help those without any strength (Rom 5:6; 7:8-9; 8:3).

The Gospel is The Power of God unto Salvation to Bring any of these souls, listed here a)- r) to Eternal Salvation, to everyone of them that Believeth,

and The Gospel Preached is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;

to Bring any of these souls, listed here a)- r), to Salvation that Believeth, and to anyone without exception who ever Obtains Eternal Salvation.

...

The denial of Jesus as The Savior includes, A.) 'souls can be saved without the Gospel'
or, B.) 'the Gospel can not help lost souls'.

Those are two sides of one coin, named, "Jesus IS NOT The Savior".

Both are as Anti-Christ as possible.

Pure blaspheme.

PERFECT, man-made, Satan Influenced False carnal religion, of the flesh Nature.

They put the other rinky dink "My Faith" is cashed in by God Heretics to SHAME.




"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Romans 1:16.

 

[kyredneck]

No because:

Gospel Is Not Involved In Regeneration


The Condition of Man precludes it:


a) The gospel cannot help those who are dead (Gen 2:17; Eph 2:1-3; Col 2:13).


b) The gospel cannot help those who cannot see it (John 3:3; II Cor 4:3-4).


c) The gospel cannot help those who cannot hear it (John 8:43,47; Acts 7:57).


d) The gospel cannot help those who cannot understand it (John 8:43; II Tim 2:25).


e) The gospel cannot help those who will not understand it (Rom 3:11; II Pet 3:5).


f) The gospel cannot help those who will not seek God (Ps 14:2-3; Rom 3:11).


g) The gospel cannot help those who cannot please God (Rom 8:8; 3:12; Is 64:6).


h) The gospel cannot help those who cannot be subject to it (Rom 8:7; Jer 13:23).


i) The gospel cannot help even if one preached from the dead (Luke 16:31).


j) The gospel cannot help those who are beyond any reformation (Isa 26:10).


k) The gospel cannot help those beyond the Spirit’s influence (1 Cor 2:14).


l) The gospel cannot help those at war with the Spirit (Gal 5:17; Acts 7:51).


m) The gospel cannot help those at war with God (Rom 5:8; 8:7; Luke 19:14).


n) The gospel cannot help those without any fear of God (Rom 3:18; Ps 36:1).


o) The gospel cannot help those that do not have any faith (Heb 11:6; Ps 10:4).


p) The gospel cannot help those who think it is foolishness (1 Cor 1:18,23; 2:14).


q) The gospel cannot help those whose minds are blinded by Satan (2 Cor 4:3-4).


r) The gospel cannot help those without any strength (Rom 5:6; 7:8-9; 8:3).

Excellent post!

 

[kyredneck]

No, what I am waiting to see if people here honestly believe you can be saved without hearing about the good news of Christ as the quote I posted in the OP seems to suggest. I condemn it as heresy if that is what he is suggesting.

All you 'means', or 'gospel regeneration' types make the same mistake as the Jews:

39 Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; Jn 5

The gospel has zilch to do with conveying eternal life to the elect, it tells of the ONE Who does:

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2 Tim 1

 

[agedman]

In Romans 2:13:

Those that outwardly demonstart that they Have Been Saved, by doing The Law, and appear to people as Having Been Saved,

... then, they are individuals who were Justified when they were Saved, and when they are doing the Law, it is an Indication that they Had Been Saved.

The Law is an Administrator of Death and no lost soul has ever done anything as a 'doer', with regard to God's Law, other than BREAK IT.

NOTHING about being 'Justified', Spiritually, by God Judging a soul, "Justified", has any relationship to anyone doing something.

...

The Law Written on hearts has no relationship to a 'doer', of some outward exercise of The Law they perform, concerning whether they Are Going to Be Justified.

Only, AFTER a soul is Saved, they will demonstrate some more degree of compliance to The Law, outwardly.

Who doesn't?

Those not Saved, and Not Justified, Spiritually by The New Birth,.... because....?

... because, it is not in them.

Even though, they have 'heard' some things, they don't follow through at look like it, in their, "doer-ing", because they don't have a Regenerated, Born Again, soul.

Then I take it that you do not hold Romans 2 as written:

12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.​

Either Paul spoke the truth concerning Gentiles who were not aware of Moses or Paul lied concerning in what was written.

Which one do you think?

 

[agedman]

In Romans 2:13:

Those that outwardly demonstart that they Have Been Saved, by doing The Law, and appear to people as Having Been Saved,

... then, they are individuals who were Justified when they were Saved, and when they are doing the Law, it is an Indication that they Had Been Saved.

The Law is an Administrator of Death and no lost soul has ever done anything as a 'doer', with regard to God's Law, other than BREAK IT.

NOTHING about being 'Justified', Spiritually, by God Judging a soul, "Justified", has any relationship to anyone doing something.

...

The Law Written on hearts has no relationship to a 'doer', of some outward exercise of The Law they perform, concerning whether they Are Going to Be Justified.

Only, AFTER a soul is Saved, they will demonstrate some more degree of compliance to The Law, outwardly.

Who doesn't?

Those not Saved, and Not Justified, Spiritually by The New Birth,.... because....?

... because, it is not in them.

Even though, they have 'heard' some things, they don't follow through at look like it, in their, "doer-ing", because they don't have a Regenerated, Born Again, soul.

This is just not at all what Paul presented.

 

[agedman]

The Gospel is The Power of God unto Salvation to Bring any of these souls, listed here a)- r) to Eternal Salvation, to everyone of them that Believeth,

and The Gospel Preached is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;

to Bring any of these souls, listed here a)- r), to Salvation that Believeth, and to anyone without exception who ever Obtains Eternal Salvation.

...

The denial of Jesus as The Savior includes, A.) 'souls can be saved without the Gospel'
or, B.) 'the Gospel can not help lost souls'.

Those are two sides of one coin, named, "Jesus IS NOT The Savior".

Both are as Anti-Christ as possible.

Pure blaspheme.

PERFECT, man-made, Satan Influenced False carnal religion, of the flesh Nature.

They put the other rinky dink "My Faith" is cashed in by God Heretics to SHAME.




"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Romans 1:16.

No one is denying that souls are saved without the gospel.

Such accusation is limited in understanding of both the Gospel and the work of the Holy Spirit.

No one is saved without the work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[PB Brother Tony]

The Gospel is The Power of God unto Salvation to Bring any of these souls, listed here a)- r) to Eternal Salvation, to everyone of them that Believeth,

and The Gospel Preached is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;

to Bring any of these souls, listed here a)- r), to Salvation that Believeth, and to anyone without exception who ever Obtains Eternal Salvation.

...

The denial of Jesus as The Savior includes, A.) 'souls can be saved without the Gospel'
or, B.) 'the Gospel can not help lost souls'.

Those are two sides of one coin, named, "Jesus IS NOT The Savior".

Both are as Anti-Christ as possible.

Pure blaspheme.

PERFECT, man-made, Satan Influenced False carnal religion, of the flesh Nature.

They put the other rinky dink "My Faith" is cashed in by God Heretics to SHAME.




"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Romans 1:16.

The Gospel provides the child of God a salvation of the mind. Once we’re made aware of what God did for us it gives us assurance of eternal life. We no longer have to be afraid of Hell.


The Gospel may cause conversion but not regeneration.



Romans 8:29-30 KJV
[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. [30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


If you notice in the Golden Chain of Salvation man’s “faith” is never mentioned. Eternal salvation is 100% God and 0% us.


Faith is a gift from The Holy Ghost and we do not receive our gifts until the new birth (regeneration).


No one claims that Christ is not a Savior, we’re claiming that Christ is our perfect Savior that doesn’t need help saving us with our “faith”.


Matthew 1:21 KJV
[21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


He SHALL save His people!


The fact that you can believe in the Gospel is a sure sign that you belong to God since regeneration precedes faith.

 

[agedman]

The Gospel is The Power of God unto Salvation to Bring any of these souls, listed here a)- r) to Eternal Salvation, to everyone of them that Believeth,

and The Gospel Preached is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;

to Bring any of these souls, listed here a)- r), to Salvation that Believeth, and to anyone without exception who ever Obtains Eternal Salvation.

...

The denial of Jesus as The Savior includes, A.) 'souls can be saved without the Gospel'
or, B.) 'the Gospel can not help lost souls'.

Those are two sides of one coin, named, "Jesus IS NOT The Savior".

Both are as Anti-Christ as possible.

Pure blaspheme.

PERFECT, man-made, Satan Influenced False carnal religion, of the flesh Nature.

They put the other rinky dink "My Faith" is cashed in by God Heretics to SHAME.




"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Romans 1:16.

But you didn’t continue with what Paul stated!

As a result, you are missing the point of the work of God in those who have not even heard of the “Law” or the OT.

Because of that, you have taken issue with what Paul stated in Romans 1 and 2, concerning those who never heard or ever would hear certain history associated with the Gospel, yet can as Paul stated,

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. ...

12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.​

 

[agedman]

One of the remarkable evidences of one not keeping the balance in this matter of salvation is seen by the more extreme applications seen.

For example:
There are those who teach that unless one is brought to Christ using the KJV, one is not saved.

Unless one says the name “Jesus” no salvation is granted.

And so forth.

Or it also comes in the form of liberal just whoever gets indigestion at some emotional story is saved.

Extremes are never good.

The presentation by Christ to Nicodemus was that the Holy Spirit comes and goes at will, and humankind do not have the mental capacity to determine where it has come from or where it is going.

Yet, in this thread is presented that unless certain conditions are met by human effort, the Word and work of God is thwarted.

May there be unity in recognition of God’s sovereignty and His preservation in all matters, salvation of His own being one.

God will cause all His to be redeemed at His good pleasure and will according to His purpose.

 

[Alan Gross]

Then I take it that you do not hold Romans 2 as written:

12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.​

Either Paul spoke the truth concerning Gentiles who were not aware of Moses or Paul lied concerning in what was written.

Which one do you think?

I think, you think that you think that asking me what I think after I told you what I think is something you think is thought worthy.

There is a Way of Salvation.

There are false religious errors.

 

[Alan Gross]

One of the remarkable evidences of one not keeping the balance in this matter of salvation is seen by the more extreme applications seen.

For example:
There are those who teach that unless one is brought to Christ using the KJV, one is not saved.

Unless one says the name “Jesus” no salvation is granted.

And so forth.

Or it also comes in the form of liberal just whoever gets indigestion at some emotional story is saved.

Extremes are never good.

The presentation by Christ to Nicodemus was that the Holy Spirit comes and goes at will, and humankind do not have the mental capacity to determine where it has come from or where it is going.

Yet, in this thread is presented that unless certain conditions are met by human effort, the Word and work of God is thwarted.

May there be unity in recognition of God’s sovereignty and His preservation in all matters, salvation of His own being one.

God will cause all His to be redeemed at His good pleasure and will according to His purpose.

The Gospel.

 

[Dave G]

Faith is a gift from the Holy Ghost and we do not receive our gifts until the new birth (regeneration) is complete? So how can a dead man believe in the Gospel?

I tend to separate belief ( initial ) and faith into two.
Not sure if it should be separate, but faith is a fruit of the Spirit ( Galatians 5:22-23 ).

Hmm...need to re-think that one.

How can someone believe on Christ without the Holy Spirit opening a person's heart ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 )?
I don't think that true belief can happen apart from the working of the Spirit and apart from being already born again.

How can someone persevere in their faith without the gift of "the faith of Christ" ( Galatians 2:20, Galatians 3:22 ), Authored and Finished by Him ( Hebrews 12:2 ) being given to them?

Can't.

 

[Alan Gross]

The Gospel provides the child of God a salvation of the mind. Once we’re made aware of what God did for us it gives us assurance of eternal life. We no longer have to be afraid of Hell.


The Gospel may cause conversion but not regeneration.



Romans 8:29-30 KJV
[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. [30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


If you notice in the Golden Chain of Salvation man’s “faith” is never mentioned. Eternal salvation is 100% God and 0% us.


Faith is a gift from The Holy Ghost and we do not receive our gifts until the new birth (regeneration).


No one claims that Christ is not a Savior, we’re claiming that Christ is our perfect Savior that doesn’t need help saving us with our “faith”.


Matthew 1:21 KJV
[21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


He SHALL save His people!


The fact that you can believe in the Gospel is a sure sign that you belong to God since regeneration precedes faith.

The Bible is Good.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Romans 1:16

Aboninable Hereasy is Accused.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: because The Gospel provides the child of God a salvation of the mind

and is NOT the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[PB Brother Tony]

I tend to separate belief ( initial ) and faith into two.
Not sure if it should be separate, but faith is a fruit of the Spirit ( Galatians 5:22-23 ).

Hmm...need to re-think that one.

How can someone believe on Christ without the Holy Spirit opening a person's understanding ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 )?
I don't think that true belief can happen apart from the working of the Spirit.

I tend to separate belief ( initial ) and faith into two.
Not sure if it should be separate, but faith is a fruit of the Spirit ( Galatians 5:22-23 ).

Hmm...need to re-think that one.

How can someone believe on Christ without the Holy Spirit opening a person's heart ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 )?
I don't think that true belief can happen apart from the working of the Spirit and apart from being already born again.

We see it in the Gentile Christians as well:


Acts 13:48 KJV
[48] And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.