Featured You may be teaching Justification by the Law !

Did you not actually read what I wrote?!? "While review is considered a synonymn for rehearse, rehearse is not considered a synonym for review. if you were truly honest, you would have posted the synonym lists for both words, instead of just the one that satisfies YOUR viewpoint.

The TRUTH has a serious foundation: honesty.

Let's discuss one single thing that you mentioned: "if anyone is believing and or teaching that they are Justified before God because of their act of Faith and or believing...."

You justify this conclusion by saying that Matt 23:23 are the words of Jesus.

What about Jesus's words in John 3:16? For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Or John 3:18? He that believeth on him is not condemned

Or John's words in John 3:36? He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life....

Or Jesus's words in John 5:24? Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation.

Or Jesus's words on John 6:40? ...that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life....

Or John 6:47? Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Or John's words in John 20:31? and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Or Romans 5:1? Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ....

Or John 5:1? Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God....

Would you care to elaborate how belief is promoting a false teaching when Jesus Himself said we must do it?

 

Are we done?

 

Guess we are....

 

Love of God is unconditional.

Salvation is conditional "to as many as received Him to THEM He gave the right to be called the sons of God" John 1.

"He came to His own - and His own received Him not" John 1:11.

"If anyone hears my voice AND opens the door - I will com in " Rev 3.

"IF we confess our sins HE is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" 1John 1:9

 

I think I'm being ignored....

Interesting that she quoted Romans 4, but stopped short of verse 3: For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Yet once again using only those verses that support the conclusion she's trying to make, rather than use scripture in context.

As for her last paragraph, that's a jumbled mess that basically is trying to say that faith is not what we think it is. It kind of supports the scripture that says faith is worked in us; but also seems to indicate that faith is external, or even another name for Jesus.

 

So salvation is unconditional? Man is completely passive in salvation? Is that what you mean, savedbymercy? Because that's what I'm reading. Even though several other posts have pointed out that man has an active role in salvation, you seem to be taking the point of view that one verse negates these other verses.

If man is completely passive in salvation, then what is the point of evangelism? What is the point of preaching? Was Paul just plain wrong when he said that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God, which requires a preacher?

 

You know what, no! I'm out. You want everyone to answer you, but you won't clearly answer anyone else. So fine, I'm out of this conversation, now. You go ahead and sit in your own little world where you don't have to respond to other people's questions unless they respond to you in a manner that you like. You're acting very childish with your responses ot many of the question I have brought forward, or Don, or others.

For the record, what I asked you is not an attempt at a rabbit trail. It's an honest desire on my part to clarify your insistence on using one part of one verse and acting like it overrides other verses that state an opposing point of view. I asked you before if the words of Jesus were of greater weight than the words of the apostles, given that all scripture is divinely inspired. I don't recall seeing an answer from you. I asked if man is completely passive in salvation, seeing as you are adamant faith is a work, yet the scriptures say we are not saved by works. I don't recall seeing an answer from you.

If you did answer these points, then please indicate where and I will graciously apologize. Otherwise, I'm tired of this rhetorical game you are playing. You have proven that you are settled in your ways and refuse to welcome any opposing views. Good evening.

 

EVERYONE HAS!!! BUT YOU WON'T ENGAGE IN DISCUSSION!!!

Yeesh. Mods, if you can't close this thread, is there some way to make it exclusive to savedbymercy, since she obviously doesn't want discussion, so she can go ahead and post whatever it is she's trying to say?

 

Certainly it is true that some people may view those texts as teaching works - but the Bible never calls it "salvation by works" to repent, or to receive Christ.

Not one text in all of scripture says "you confessed your sin and are thereby claiming to be saved by works"

Not one text in all of scripture saying "you received Christ and are thereby claiming to be saved by works"

You can find it in Calvinism.

You cannot find it in actual scripture.

 

I'm going to give this one last attempt. No one would argue that we are saved by grace, but we have to actively participate to attain that salvation. The Bible proves this in several places.

Arguably, the act of "entering in" by man is a "work," under your definition. Yet doing so offers us salvation.

From the parable of the seed, we see here that the devil seeks to take the word from people, lest they believe (a work, according to you) and be saved (a result of the work).

Post-resurrection, as Jesus is commissioning the disciples, He tells them that whoever believes (a work, per your definition) and is baptized shall be saved. You could argue requiring baptism for salvation, but the remained of scripture shows baptism to be a symbol and, in some ways, a progression from an experience of grace to make an outward sign of conversion to the family of God.

The jailer is told to believe (a work, per you) and he shall be saved. The apostles deliver the word of God to him and his household, and they hear the word, which is a physical action (a work, per your definitions) and believe (a work, per you).

Yet, in another scripture, as already pointed out, but seemingly ignored, we read:

We are not saved by works, but by grace through faith, yet the Bible tells us faith comes by hearing (a work. per you) the preached word of God (Romans 10). That scripture even says whoever shall call (a work, by your definition) on the Lord shall be saved.

So the logical conclusion is that not every physical movement of man is to be considered a work. Not everything we do is a work. Otherwise the scriptures are in contradiction. I wish you would read this and respond properly, but you'll probably just tell me to review your points, instead of reviewing mine.

You have still yet to tell me if certain verses of scripture override others based on who spoke them int he physical body. When or if you start actively answering these questions we may be able to have a good discussion.

 

Calvinism cannot find such statements in the Bible so it simply adds its own extreme inference to invent the proof/support it needs for its claims.

Is breathing something we do - ???

Is there even one text that says that breathing is a form of "Salvation by works'???

But never in the actual Bible.

it is only stuck in that "works" classification by Calvinism - never by the actual Bible.

Indeed the Bible mentions repentance - but never claims that to repent is to achieve salvation by works OR to pursue salvation by works.

Not one text in all of scripture makes that claim about breathing, or about repentance or about confession or about receiving Christ.

To find any condemnation at all about those activities being a sort of "salvation by works" you have to go to Calvinist literature -- you will not find it in the actual Bible.


in Christ,

Bob

 

I understand that this is a POV that many today have - but they have not one Bible text in support of it.

The Bible never claims that to repent, or to confess, or to receive Christ is "salvation by works" --

Rather the Bible says "IF WE Confess our sins HE is faithful and just to Forgive" 1John 1:9

it never says "And such would be salvation by works"

The Bible says "I STAND at the door and knock - IF anyone hears My voice AND OPENS the door - I will come in" Rev 3

It never says "and such would be salvation by works"

In Calvinism there is no such thing as "He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11 no matter what the Bible says to the contrary because in Calvinism the way that the lost person is saved is that first "HE comes to His OWN" those whom He abitrarily selects out from among the lost - causes "His own" to be born again - regenerated - THEN compels them to accept the Gospel for they are already regenerate - already born-again already saved, already the New Creation old things passed away all things become new.

In that form of Calvinism - no such thing as "He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11