You may be teaching Justification by the Law !

[savedbymercy]

pt

So, just for clarity's sake, the scripture from Ephesians is wrong?

Did I post that ? Please provide the quote whereby I stated that !

 

[savedbymercy]

van

Words have a meaning or range of meanings.

Who said they didnt ? This is a rabbit trail now ! Faith is a work of the Law that ought to be DONE, Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[Van]

Yes, I understand my view is a rabbit trail, whereas your view is the straight and narrow path of righteousness.

You said the translation choice between faith and faithfulness amounted to nothing because the Greek word was the same. I addressed that mistake.

And to repeat, the issue is not that faith is a work, the issue is whether faith is one of the works of the Law. And it is not according to Galatians 2:16, for we believed in Him and not in the works of the Law.

 

[Don]

Tony - the only thing he could be saying at this point, for him to continue, is this:

"For by grace are we saved through [Christ's] faith...."

(See post #38)

Which means we have to read Romans 4:5 as our faith in His faith, and His justification.

 

[Don]

Tapatalk isn't showing something I wrote on the preview, and it was too long ago to edit....

Tony - the only thing he could be saying at this point, for him to continue, is this:

"For by grace are we saved through (Christ's) faith...."

(See post #38)

Which means we have to read Romans 4:5 as our faith in His faith, and His justification.

 

[Van]

The whole premise is absurd. It was Abraham's faith that was credited as righteousness. It is our faith in Christ which provides our access to the grace in which we stand, Romans 5:2.

 

[savedbymercy]

The whole premise is absurd. It was Abraham's faith that was credited as righteousness. It is our faith in Christ which provides our access to the grace in which we stand, Romans 5:2.

You are still promoting Salvation/Justification by doing the Law, because Faith is a required duty of the Law of God that ought to be done Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

You seek to be Justified by the Law, you are far from Grace Gal 2:16

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. And Faith is a work of the Law as indicated in Matt 23:23 !

 

[Don]

You are still promoting Salvation/Justification by doing the Law, because Faith is a required duty of the Law of God that ought to be done Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

You seek to be Justified by the Law, you are far from Grace Gal 2:16

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. And Faith is a work of the Law as indicated in Matt 23:23 !

For this to be true, scripture must contradict itself. This has been pointed out to you multiple times, but you refuse to discuss this fact. You refuse to see anything except your own misinterpretation of scripture. You are caught up in a misunderstanding, and you're willingly ignoring anything that challenges YOUR interpretation.

Do NOT come back and say we are arguing with scripture until you are ready and willing to discuss the scriptures that contradict what you say.

 

[Yeshua1]

The whole premise is absurd. It was Abraham's faith that was credited as righteousness. It is our faith in Christ which provides our access to the grace in which we stand, Romans 5:2.

We ahve no faith though in and of ourselves, for even that is the gift of God towards us saved by him in Christ!

 

[savedbymercy]

For this to be true, scripture must contradict itself. This has been pointed out to you multiple times, but you refuse to discuss this fact. You refuse to see anything except your own misinterpretation of scripture. You are caught up in a misunderstanding, and you're willingly ignoring anything that challenges YOUR interpretation.

Do NOT come back and say we are arguing with scripture until you are ready and willing to discuss the scriptures that contradict what you say.

There is nothing contradicted, Its pretty clear that Faith is work of the Law, Matt 23:23, now for there to be a contradiction, it must be stated clearly that Faith is not a work of the Law ! You have yet provided such a scripture !

 

[Don]

There is nothing contradicted, Its pretty clear that Faith is work of the Law, Matt 23:23, now for there to be a contradiction, it must be stated clearly that Faith is not a work of the Law ! You have yet provided such a scripture !

Allow me to remind you: Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 4:5 were the scriptures provided.

Here's the contradiction you're ignoring: both of those contrast faith and works as opposites. One says we are saved by grace through faith, not of works; the other says that to him who worketh not, but believeth, his faith is counted to righteousness.

Please show how those do not contradict what you're saying.

 

[savedbymercy]

don

Allow me to remind you: Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 4:5 were the scriptures provided.

I agree with both of those scriptures, and neither one of them states that Faith is not a work of the Law, so you need to prove a contradiction exists, not me ! Why do i need to do your work ?

 

[Van]

You are still promoting Salvation/Justification by doing the Law, because Faith is a required duty of the Law of God that ought to be done Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

You seek to be Justified by the Law, you are far from Grace Gal 2:16

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. And Faith is a work of the Law as indicated in Matt 23:23 !

I will try once more. We are not saved or justified by doing a work of the Law, i.e. putting our faith in Christ. We are saved and justified when God credits our worthless faith as righteousness and transfers us spiritually into Christ.

And to repeat, I can read and Galatians 2:16 agrees with me and conflicts with your view. We believed in Christ and not in the works of the Law. You are trying to rewrite that verse to say we did believed in Christ, one of the works of the Law. Not what it says.

How are we justified? By keeping the Law or one work of the Law? Nope, for by the Law no flesh is justified. But our faith in Christ provides our access to the grace of justification.

Petty simply really.

 

[savedbymercy]

van

I will try once more. We are not saved or justified by doing a work of the Law, i.e. putting our faith in Christ. We are saved and justified when God credits our worthless faith as righteousness and transfers us spiritually into Christ.

Its the same thing. You are crediting your worthless faith as the reason why God saves one !

Faith is a work of the Law, and its not worthless before God, its most precious 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

You blasphemously call worthless what God calls precious !

Also, God never credits Faith as Righteousness, Christ is ones Righteousness, not Faith 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

And this Righteousness God has made unto His People by Christ, is not their Faith, instead it is revealed to their Faith by the Gospel Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Now, Righteousness cannot be ones Faith if it is revealed to ones Faith ! So you are very confused, as well as teaching that one is saved by doing the Law and God counting that doing of the Law, Faith, as ones Righteousness !

 

[Don]

don



I agree with both of those scriptures, and neither one of them states that Faith is not a work of the Law, so you need to prove a contradiction exists, not me ! Why do i need to do your work ?

I believe I just showed that they DO contradict what you're saying. How can Eph 2:8-9 say "saved...through faith; not of works" and faith still be considered a "work"? How can Rom 4:5 say "him that worketh not...his faith is counted for righteousness" and still faith be considered a work?

Please explain how these are not contradictions to what you're saying about faith being a work.

 

[savedbymercy]

don

I believe I just showed that they DO contradict what you're saying.

Impossible, neither one of those verses states that Faith is not a work of the Law ! I showed you a scripture that says Faith is a work of the Law that ought to be done Matt 23:23, now to find something contrary, you would need something to the effect, that Faith is not a work of the Law that ought to be done ! I am waiting !

 

[plain_n_simple]

"You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?"

"11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them."

 

[savedbymercy]

"You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?"

"11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them."

And your point ?

 

[Don]

don
Impossible, neither one of those verses states that Faith is not a work of the Law ! I showed you a scripture that says Faith is a work of the Law that ought to be done Matt 23:23, now to find something contrary, you would need something to the effect, that Faith is not a work of the Law that ought to be done ! I am waiting !

Okay, now you're really muddying the waters. Both of the references I posted say "faith, not works"; but you're insisting they do NOT say "faith, not works." Please explain.

 

[savedbymercy]

Okay, now you're really muddying the waters. Both of the references I posted say "faith, not works"; but you're insisting they do NOT say "faith, not works." Please explain.

You must cannot read, neither one of those verses says that Faith is not a work !