Young Earth - Old Earth

[rockytopva]

Rocky...

He will come like a thief in the night for the unsaved. For the saved, we will not know the hour nor the day, but we will know the season, and it will be after the anti Christ reveals himself. Read Matthew 24 Jesus explains it all. He tells us to "watch". Why would he tell us to "watch" if it will be like a thief in the night. It is AFTER the tribulation that the sun and moon will darken and God's wrath will rain down on the earth. We believers will not escape tribulation, nowhere does the bible say that we will. But we will escape God's wrath. Those who believe in a pretrib rapture ....many will be deceived into thinking it is Christ's 2nd coming by the Anti-Christ. Don't be fooled by the PreTrib rapture doctrine, it is false doctrine!

God did not call us to be pre- mid- or post- trib. He called us to be ready for him to come as a thief, at any time, or at any moment. Scripturally Christ could come pre- mid- or post- trib. But it is not God's will for us to know the timing of things, as Christ said...

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. - Acts 1

As far as 2060AD, I believe Isaac Newton was closest, and to quote him....

“And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half.” –Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060.”" - – Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ’s coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However… Isaac Newton notes…

'“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –- Isaac Newton

Christ could come today! And it is his will for us to be ready.

 

[Dave G]

Lewlew,

Welcome to the board, and I hope that you find some edification here.
How about going over to the New Member Introduction threads, and posting something about yourself?

God did not call us to be pre- mid- or post- trib.

I agree, sir.
He called us to glorify Him for His gift of eternal life, and to believe His words.
How about starting a thread, and we can discuss the differing "rapture" teachings over there; Although, I'm sure that there have been plenty of threads about it over the years.


May God bless you both.

 

[rockytopva]

Lewlew,

Welcome to the board, and I hope that you find some edification here.
How about going over to the New Member Introduction threads, and posting something?




I agree, sir.
He called us to glorify Him for His gift of eternal life, and to believe His words.
How about starting a thread, and we can discuss the differing "rapture" teachings out there; Although, I'm sure that there have been plenty of threads about it over the years.


May God bless you both.

Point being made... I believe the earth, from the time God put it in orbit around the sun, is 6,000 years old, awaiting the end of this world, Christ's coming, and the 1,000 year millennial reign. Whether Christ comes pre- mid- or post- trib is agreeably off topic to this thread.

 

[37818]

It has been proven that uranium dating can only go back so far, and definitely not millions. There is no way to test millions nor billions of years in a test lab....so therefore is not proven.

No. I think you are confusing uranium with carbon 14 dating.

 

[lewlew]

God did not call us to be pre- mid- or post- trib. He called us to be ready for him to come as a thief, at any time, or at any moment. Scripturally Christ could come pre- mid- or post- trib. But it is not God's will for us to know the timing of things, as Christ said...

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. - Acts 1

As far as 2060AD, I believe Isaac Newton was closest, and to quote him....

“And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half.” –Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060.”" - – Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ’s coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However… Isaac Newton notes…

'“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –- Isaac Newton

Christ could come today! And it is his will for us to be ready.

Okay, I will give you that one, that we are not to know the season, but we are to watch, and as Jesus clearly tells us in Matthew 15 the abomination of desolation takes place and then a great tribulation, and then verse 29 says AFTER the tribulation the sun and moon are darkened and then verse 30 tells of the coming of the son of man in the clouds. So clearly we know that it will be after the abomination of desolation, the day or hour we do not know....but the elect (beleivers) will now it is coming soon!

 

[lewlew]

No. I think you are confusing uranium with carbon 14 dating.

Either way you cannot test it due to the nature of the experiment.

 

[lewlew]

Lewlew,

Welcome to the board, and I hope that you find some edification here.
How about going over to the New Member Introduction threads, and posting something about yourself?



I agree, sir.
He called us to glorify Him for His gift of eternal life, and to believe His words.
How about starting a thread, and we can discuss the differing "rapture" teachings out there; Although, I'm sure that there have been plenty of threads about it over the years.


May God bless you both.

Good point. I got off topic!

 

[37818]

Either way you cannot test it due to the nature of the experiment.

Explain why you think so.

 

[lewlew]

Good point. I got off topic!

where is that thread?

 

[lewlew]

Explain why you think so.

I think it's obvious...no one lives to be millions of years in order to test it. No one knows for certain all that happened over the millions of years...the climate could have changed...too many variables....etc.

 

[Dave G]

Carbon 14 is based on decay rate...and differing organic materials decay at differing rates, if I'm not mistaken.

No matter what dating method scientists currently use, I've heard of flaws in all of them.

 

[lewlew]

Carbon 14 is based on decay rate...and differing organic materials decay at differing rates, if I'm not mistaken.

No matter what dating method scientists currently use, I've heard of flaws in all of them.

I as well.

 

[Marooncat79]

Zircon crystal uranium dating of a meteorite gives us the 4.5 billion years for the age of the Earth.

But helium testing from the same testing says 6000-6500 yrs

 

[robycop3]

Here's more OE evidence: the dendrochronological records of many places.

In places where very old trees are living, there are often found dead, long-preserved remains of the same tree species. An examination of the growth rings found in living trees is compared with those found in the dead ones. It's found those records overlap, that some of the old rings in the living trees match newer rings found in dead trees, and the link can be traced thru successively-older remains. Thus, in several diverse places, the records go back over 12K years. There's simply no valid dismissal of such findings.

Now how could it have been washed away with the looser stuff? We have canyons because water swept through and took the loose stuff but left the walls of canyons. By your reasoning the surface of the earth would be smooth.

The stuff didn't appear to be very loose. The layers of rock are the same on both sides of the Grand Canyon. And the growth ring record is almost beyond dispute. (Yes, I know some YEs mention that some trees might have more than one growth ring a year, but they're easily identified. And some trees apparently recorded Noah's flood from over 5K years ago, but but only a "mini-ice-age" of about 3 years' duration, not enough to cause a mass extinction.)

 

[robycop3]

I believe that the fall of Lucifer instigated the big bang that happened some 15 billion years ago....

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - Genesis 1:1

Space and mass - Nothing else

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. - Genesis 1:2

Space and mass - Nothing else

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. - Genesis 1:3

As m = E/c2 so the mass dissociates into energy and light flowing out as plasma from a point of origins forming into what elements the Father willed it to.

*** I believe that 15 billion years transpired between Genesis 1:3-4***

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. - Genesis 1:4

Keep in mind that the first day has not occurred yet. By dividing the light from the darkness the earth is put in orbit around the sun, dividing the light from the darkness, making the first day.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1:5

Now we are ready for the first day and the seven day creation story... 15 billion years from the time that God said, "Let there be light!" Now for Genesis 1:6-8

--------------------------------------------

From there we have three earth ages...

1. The first earth age
2. The middle ages
3.The seven church ages

The first earth age...

The seven church ages...

--------------------------------------------

As seven is a number of perfection, so God is going to allow the Earth to exist 6,000 years, with about a 400 year extension, this I take as days of grace. This will be followed by a millennial of peace when Lucifer will be vanished for a thousand years from the planet Earth. So the final amount of earth years, about 7,000 years, maybe a little more taking in to account there may be days of grace.
--------------------------------------------

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. - Isaiah 65:17

As m (mass) = E/c2 (plasma) so the elements will disassociate back into the energy and light from whence they were created and return back to God. God then will use that energy to recreate a new heaven and earth...

But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. - 1 Peter 4:13

The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: - 1 Peter 5:1

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. - Romans 8:18

So God has not revealed what he is going to do with that enormous amount of energy and light that will return to him through the disassociation of the universe. But I do believe that it will be glorious, and that we saints of God who have weathered the trials of this Earth will be glad on our arrival.

Not wanting to derail the thread, but there were NO "seven church ages". That man-made doctrine goes in the "false" bin along with preterism, the KJVO myth, & many other "isms".

 

[Marooncat79]

The geologic column exists perfectly nowhere in the world, not even the Grand Canyon. There are several places where its all mixed up

Carbon 14 dating is unreliable

There is no universal rate of decay-uniformatarianism due to floods, volcanic activity etc

The Lava Fields in Hawaii are supposedly 25M yrs old and there is not even 6 inches of dirt covering them

Other examples

Gravitational pull over billions of yrs would not allow grass to grow

Earths rotation on its axis has slowed down over 6,000 yrs and if you extrapolate it back millions of yrs if would have been too fast to support life

The sun would have burned up the universe. We know the level of decay and can determine it would also have been several times larger over billions of yrs

Why did evolution stop?

Where are all of the transition life forms? There should be thousands of them. Science is only looking for one. Why?

Why are there not transitional life forms living today?

 

[Dave G]

Roby,
I read an article somewhere that said that a scientist once tried testing a shellfish with Carbon-14 dating, and found it to be thousands of years old...
It was still alive.

I'd rather believe the Lord than anything that scientists come up with in their observations.

If you think the Earth is old, then ask Him.
If He deems it important, He will show you the answer.

 

[Dave G]

Earths rotation on its axis has slowed down over 6,000 yrs and if you extrapolate it back millions of yrs if would have been too fast to support life

Other than "Coriolis Effect", someone really should conclusively prove that the Earth rotates on an axis, instead of the heavens rotating around it.
Until someone drags me up into space and shows me, it could go either way, and I opt for the above.

Throw a ball into the air sometime...if it angles away from you, and lands a short distance away after being thrown straight up, then the Earth is rotating.
In other words, ballistics should show that the Earth is rotating roughly 1,000 miles per hour ( 25,000 miles at the equator, 24 hours in a day ) at its widest point, on an axis.

Air is a fluid...surround a solid mass with fluid and start the whole thing rotating; Does the fluid ever catch up in speed with the mass?

 

[robycop3]

Definitely young earth, 6,000 years and some change, more or less.

-Fossil evidence has been found in Texas with human footprints in the same fossil strata as "dinosaur" prints...evidence which has been suppressed by the scientific community-at-large for decades now.

"Cavemen", whatever they were.

-Large lizards are mentioned in the book of Job.

There are large lizards now _Komodo dragons". And 'gators & crocs are so lizard-like that many ancients considered them lizards.

-"Sabre-toothed cat" remains being found within the last 200 years, and being mentioned in legend as recently as 1,000 years ago, as an estimate...check stories about the La Brea Tar Pits and some "Indian" legends.

Occasionally a puma or jaguar will have abnormally-long upper canines. And jags once lived much farther north than they do now. While smilodon remains have been found all over the Americas, they were somewhat larger than a jag or puma, didn't run very fast, & primarily lived in forests or dense brush. Like the jag or puma, it appears they hunted mainly from ambush And the remains found in the La Brea tar pits are much-older than 200 years.

-"Woolly Mammoths" cited in differing tribes' legends in both North America of 1,000 years ago, and Siberia, if memory serves.

Of the nearly-intact mammoths found in Siberia, some were found with GRASS in their mouths, in regions where no grass has grown in the memory of man, where the permafrost is quite deep. Some of the Indians likely saw a frozen carcass & didn't know what it was; hence the legend.

-Coelacanths, thought extinct and relegated to fossil record, have been caught as recently as 1998...not generally discussed, but evidence is available.

-There are photographs of plesiosaurs caught by Japanese fishermen...discounted as hoaxes, of course.

The first coelacanth known to modern man was caught in 1937. There's nothing in Scripture indicating God exterminated many fish with the flood, except many likely died due to the dilution of salt water with fresh water from the "fountains of the deep". That wouldn't affect a plesiosaur, of course. (I believe the Loch Ness monster is one.) I wouldn't be shocked if living tylosaurs were found.

-Mountains and canyons where the fossil records have literally been turned upside down...

Let's not forget the "quaternary extinction".

-"Blow craters" in eastern Washington state that corroborate the Biblical story of the fountains of the deep being broken up.
-The "Mid-Atlantic Ridge" and the underwater mountain range that encircles the Earth on the ocean floor, resulting in volcanic vents in many places...same as above.

No one argues against the "fountains of the deep", as several exist under Florida right now.

-The Moon's face toward's Earth being pockmarked like a shotgun hit it...again, corroborating the "shotgun theory" of the waters being broken up and blowing into the earth's atmosphere and beyond.

Now, that's quite a stretch, to say an earthly blast "shotgunned" the moon! Such a blast woulda blown 2/3 of the earth away & killed everything on it! Remember how far-off the moon is!

-Comet theory suggests that the water originated on Earth during the explosive upheavals of the Flood.

Another stretch, as an explosion that powerful woulda decimated the whole earth, not just flooded it!

-"The Loch Ness Monster" being a trapped plesiosaur and its family...I'm not sure about that legend, as stories can be invented out of thin air, or spurious sightings of the unknown that generate conjecture.
-"The Lake Champlain sightings"...same as above.

The Loch Ness monster isn't trapped. And it might well be a plesiosaur. Again, no Scriptural reason for them to be extinct.

-Noah's Ark is on Mount Arrarat...they have countless photos, and expeditions have been there recently, from my understanding; The subject gets downplayed immensely, especially be those who seek to disprove the Bible, IMO.

No disputing that from me. However, over 99% of all fauna & flora species that ever lived are now extinct, & Scripture says that Noah took at least one male & female pair of EVERY kind of land animal, bird, & crawling thing on board the ark, & I believe it. He didn't take too many dinos cuz they were ALREADY EXTINCT, before God made the current arrengement of earth's surface.

In my opinion, there are far too many variables that cannot be explained by man's so-called "science", such as fossilization only occurring under rapid and intense pressure, not over "millions of years" as once thought, and there are far too many discoveries being suppressed and discounted for man's scientific theories to be bullet-proof.


I trust the Lord to be accurate, and men to be liars.


Conclusion:

Mankind as a whole, continues to deny the Lord's existence and right to command him, yet the evidence all around him condemns him.
They also deny the truth of Scripture, and seek to put it away from them.


I praise the Lord for making a believer out of me.

Sorry, Sir, but there are too many FACTS pointing to an old earth, while young-earthers use mucho imagination, opinion, & guesswork.

 

[robycop3]

Roby,
I read an article somewhere that said that a scientist once tried testing a shellfish with Carbon-14 dating, and found it to be thousands of years old...
It was still alive.

I'd rather believe the Lord than anything that scientists come up with in their observations.

If you think the Earth is old, then ask Him.
If He deems it important, He will show you the answer.

Carbon-14, etc. is quite unreliable. The speeda light is not.