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You've GOT to watch this - please
- Thread starter gekko
- Start date
James_Newman
New Member
I have to wonder, do young Christians ever become fans of secular rap/rock/hip-hop through exposure to 'Christian' music? It seems that much of this activity is justified under the argument that it is used for evangelism. I'm not going to question that it might be used to expose someone to the gospel, however loosely it may be expressed. But does it not also evangelize Christians in the opposite manner? How do you know that Christian children do not go on to listen to guys like Eminem after developing an ear for rap? For that matter, how many of you guys that listen to Christian rap will confess to also listening to secular rap?
James_Newman said:
This is worth discussing IMO.
purposes of Christian music (whether you believe it or not, at least you have seen these proposed):
- Worship: (hymns, sacred, praise & worship, etc.) Musical expressions of worship--directed to God by Christians. Not for the lost crowd (though they might hear it, be in attendance, etc.).
- Edification: (all styles, from gospel hymns to modern) This is Christian music not necessarily worship-focused, but wholesome and edifying to one's walk). This Christian music is not really reaching the lost folk, but is building up some of the Christian crowd. It might teach, comfort, Some of this music might fall into the "good clean fun" category, with no real meat, but is the musical equivalent to a good belly-laugh.
- Evangelism: (all styles, some might say there's less "churchy" styles in this genre; others might disagree) This music is intended to be targeted at non-believers, with the intent on confronting them with the Gospel, or making them more receptive to it.
If you don't believe in all of the purposes listed, then I guess we re-align and start over with our categories. :tongue3:
James, I think it's a matter of conscience. Let's say that I'm an ex-rapper, and that I lived a very rough life, and rap was an integral part of that experience. I can see why I might need to avoid the genre entirely, to ensure that I stay true. Change it up: I'm an ex-country musician. Same kind of story...maybe I have to avoid country and Southern Gospel. I'm helping mentor a guy who had problems with computer porn He's very computer-savvy, and was very engrossed in the sin. He currently isn't allowing himself to use an internet-connected computer at all...yet I do. Why? A matter of conscience.
James_Newman
New Member
I'm not talking about the ex-rapper, I'm talking about Johnny Choirboy. He grew up in a Christian home with no exposure to secular music. One summer at Baptist Hoedown Explosion Camp, his camp counsellor uses his liberty of conscience to turn him on to Christian rap. Johnny really likes this music, it sounds like the stuff that makes his dad roll up the window at stop lights, and he's always been curious about the sound. Do little Johnny's ever get into the hardcore stuff after cutting their teeth on 'Christian' rap? I think they probably do. Is it possible that things like Christian rap, even though they may be used for good purposes at times, can be a stumbling block for some Christians?
James_Newman
New Member
I know you do, gekko, but I don't think we can expect every Christian youth to be as rock solid as you. If we are to be faithful to our Lord's command to love our brothers, we need to be careful what we set before them.
James_Newman said:
Great point, James.
Brief testimony:
I am a musician who enjoys many different styles of music. (Never have liked c-rap)
I have listened to "christian rock". (Which makes it easier for me to justify listening to 80's rock - which makes it easier for me to listen to all rock)
I have listened to "christian country". (Which makes it easier for me to listen to Marty Robbins - which makes it easier for me to listen to George Strait - which makes it easier for me to listen to Tim McGraw)
I have listened to "christian bluegrass". (Which makes it easier to justify listening to Allison Krauss - which makes it easier to listen to... country again - which... )
I still struggle with this quite a bit. I always find, the further I go with it, the less I notice what the lyrics are. My tolerance rises to a dangerous level. Praise be to God, at some point I get under heavy conviction, start listening only to christian music, but then the process starts all over again. Also, I have noticed, the music is often more interesting to me than the lyrics. That is sad, because some of the lyrics do glorify God, but they get lost under the intensity of the music.
Blammo said:
While I can see your point, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I didn’t grow up with many strong Christian influences and I was never active in church. I was no different than the world. When I became a Christian, I got rid of all my secular music. The only time I can remember turning back to the secular music was when there was no CCM or Christian Hip-Hop type music available. Outside of biblical study, music has impacted me the most and has given me great strength during my struggles.
I appreciate your desire to abstain, but your argument is based on a logical fallacy (the slippery-slope). The fallen state of man produces different results in different people. For you music of the CCM sort is negative, but for me it is good. You are just as much a stumbling block for me, in your declaration against it, as I would be for you. I’m not so sure a sound reading of the Bible would dictate we abstain from everything, in a literal sense, that would be a stumbling block. If this were so, we would be in BIG trouble as opinions and our nature vary.
Please do not take this as a rebuke, but a kind explanation of my position. God bless.
James_Newman said:
I am one of those johnny choirboys... I grew up in a very legalistic IFB home. My dad hated secular music, and I wasn't allowed to listen to it.
When I was 14, the local Christian radio station started playing CCM on Saturday evenings... Carman, Michael W Smith, Petra, Dallas Holms, Twila Paris, Amy Grant, etc. I started listening to it. It drove my father crazy.
My teenage rebelion was CCM! What a rebel I was!! lol
I did go beyond CCM... Def Lepard and Guns-n-Roses were my favorite Secular bands...
But I rebounded back to CCM and Praise and Worship. Now that is all I listen to. I am edified by listening to it.
I wonder, but may never know, what would have happened if my father was not so strict when I grew up... Maybe I wouldn't have rebelled..but then again, maybe I would have went farther than I did.
Overall, I thank God for directing me back to him when I strayed.
James_Newman
New Member
I just found an interesting interview.
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2004/01/24/150303.php
It's with a man named Mark Anderson, who wrote a book titled 'Jesus Sound Explosion'. It seems to be a chronicle of his transition from evangelical Christian fundamentalism into worldliness through music. What do you guys think about it?
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2004/01/24/150303.php
It's with a man named Mark Anderson, who wrote a book titled 'Jesus Sound Explosion'. It seems to be a chronicle of his transition from evangelical Christian fundamentalism into worldliness through music. What do you guys think about it?
Brice said:
Brice,
I appreciate your position as well.
I may have given you the impression that I started with CCM and ended up at secular. The truth is, I got saved at the age of 17. Up until that point, and a bit beyond it, I went through several stages of secular music.
Age 5 - Wanted to be Elvis
Age 10 - Wanted to be in a band like the Beatles or the Stones
Age 15 - Got my first electric guitar and joined a punk rock band
Age 18 - Been playing in bars, at weddings, and college parties for 3 years
When I was 20, I discovered Michael W Smith, Petra, WhiteHeart, etc...
These groups sounded pretty close to what I liked, and it was a good time for me to escape the secular stuff. I destroyed 3 copies of AC/DC's Back in Black by the time I was 21. I smashed as many copies of Guns and Roses and Metallica CDs that same year. I just kept buying them, enjoying them, hating enjoying them, and destroying them over and over again.
So you see, I have not been a church kid falling into rebellion, I have been a secular kid trying to overcome my rebellion. For me, it's like I am an alcoholic trying to overcome my appetite for beer by drinking Sharps or O'Douls.
Don't get me wrong, I believe music is a gift from God. Just like many good things from God, it can be used for God's glory, or it can be used for self-indulgence. I don't think that all CCM is wrong or bad. What I do believe is that the more it tries to emmulate the fleshy, angry, rebellious stuff, the more it will lead you into compromise.
James_Newman
New Member
Did you happen to read the interview I linked to? What do you think of some of the things he said? For instance:
This man calls his parents wise for allowing him to listen to rock music. What do you guys think?
This man calls his parents wise for allowing him to listen to rock music. What do you guys think?
James_Newman
New Member
Man, its like someone changed the station.
As I said, it's an issue of wisdom and discernment. See my post earlier about the guy who doesn't use the computer without severe restrictions.
I'm sure there are some that for conscience's sake decide it's not for them.
But the "johnny choirboy" reminds me of many of the kids I work with that grow up going to our local IFB church that is very restrictive (more than probably 80% of what I see here on the BB)...these kids go two directions upon late teenage years/adulthood:
1. Become just as legalistic as their parents; or
2. Go buck-wild.
There seems to be no in-between. So perhaps it's more of an issue when parents impose too many extra-biblical regulations. Maybe we as parents should do a better job of teaching kids to be wise discerners of stuff like music. Why?
1. So they know what they believe, and why
2. So they can know how to make decisions when there is a "gray area."
And music is slap-full of gray areas.
I'm sure there are some that for conscience's sake decide it's not for them.
But the "johnny choirboy" reminds me of many of the kids I work with that grow up going to our local IFB church that is very restrictive (more than probably 80% of what I see here on the BB)...these kids go two directions upon late teenage years/adulthood:
1. Become just as legalistic as their parents; or
2. Go buck-wild.
There seems to be no in-between. So perhaps it's more of an issue when parents impose too many extra-biblical regulations. Maybe we as parents should do a better job of teaching kids to be wise discerners of stuff like music. Why?
1. So they know what they believe, and why
2. So they can know how to make decisions when there is a "gray area."
And music is slap-full of gray areas.
rbell said:
The list above caught my eye.
May i ask which part of scripture supports the point about Christian music for evangelism?
As for the video....
I can't help it, when i hear that beat, i expect to hear filthy lyrics. How can you separate that other than clear out the whole thing and start afresh?
And his plea to give them a chance to be an "alternative" and to have their music point young people to Christ?
It's like saying having french fries with mayo every single meal is bad for you. Have it with ketchup instead.
??????????????
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Su Wei said:
1. The Good News of the Gospel--whether spoken, written, or set to music, is evangelistic by definition.
2. And when I hear a steel slide guitar, I expect to hear about someone's trailer, dog, tractor, or beer--yet Southern Gospel uses it, and uses it well. Personal preferences and pre-judgements: We either choose to get over them, live by them, or avoid countering them.
Aaron said:
I have as bout as much scripture that says that as you do on which toilet paper to use...
Some things are common sense, and God expects us to use our common sense.... He didn't have to tell us everything. He gave most of us a brain.
God never said we shouldn't use charmin, and He never said not to listen to Rap....
Please quit being a pharisee and adding extra-biblical nonsense to God's word.
If you don't like rap, don't listen to it.
Stick to your music... but brother when you get to Heaven don't be surprised if God sticks you into the hip-hop section of the angelic choir just to teach you an object lesson about how not to be judgemental.
Yes judgemental.. that is what it all boils down to..
No drums because they came from the colored.
Now no hip hop because it is "black"
Oh you may say it is because it is pagan, but what does your kind really mean? It came from Africa...
Well so did the Banjo, but noone has said that awful, twangy sound of bluegrass is unholy!
Am I angry? I sure am, because of your alls attitude that you are Godlier than everyone else just because you listen to "Godly music"
Praise God for whoever lifts praises to Him in whatever form they want.
BTW, I don't like rap either... but recognize the right of others to praise God however they want. Get a world view instead of a narrow minded judgemental, Bible belt view.. you may then understand the grace of God better.