Zionism Undermines our Gospel

[Foxmeister]

Thanks for the correction, friend. I'll keep looking.

Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) is the practice of collecting, processing, and analyzing publicly available information to answer specific research or investigative questions. Sources used are government data, court filings, property records, regulatory documents, news sources, social media, forum discussions, and even public domain images. We used these sources in military intelligence reporting, but we had to be careful with it because many of the sources used are not always credible. When we did use it, it was after we were able to verify it to be true. Trust but verify. If we couldn't verify it it to be true, then it was discarded.

It's why it's important not to take anything you read or watch on the Internet to be true. You'll be amazed at how many times I've heard, "it must be true if it was in the Internet." People should fact check things to verify whether or not they're true. I don't use one source to get my news from. I use several. The problem with news is that it's not uncommon for something to be reported in a manner that fits an agenda. Like how people will intentionally take scripture out of context to fit an agenda that isn't biblical.

I suspected right away because there was no background audio from all those people behind the "reporter" that something was not right and became suspicious. This caused me to look more closely at her. Then what she was reporting didn't sound credible, especially because the video she used of Tehran and the military didn't fit her report. Then I began looking for other sources reporting what she was. I didn't find any to verify it. Then I decided to research The Daily Jargan.

It's really sad today that people will automatically believe something because on the surface it appears legitimate, or it fits with one's own ideals or desires. Always fact check it first before passing it on.

 

[JonC]

I disagree with the OP.

Zionism is the idea of the creation of a Jewish national state. But that state has already been established.

Having been established zionism is the idea that Israel is a sovereign nation (Israel has the right to defend itself, to govern itself).

The Jewish understanding of their identity is in opposition to the gospel, but so is the Muslim understanding of their identity.

We could question whether the Balfour Declaration was the proper thing to do, just as we could question whether Britan had the right to establish American colonies, the US to gain territory, etc.

But Israel is a nation. It has the right to srlf-determination.

 

[John of Japan]

Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) is the practice of collecting, processing, and analyzing publicly available information to answer specific research or investigative questions. Sources used are government data, court filings, property records, regulatory documents, news sources, social media, forum discussions, and even public domain images. We used these sources in military intelligence reporting, but we had to be careful with it because many of the sources used are not always credible. When we did use it, it was after we were able to verify it to be true. Trust but verify. If we couldn't verify it it to be true, then it was discarded.

It's why it's important not to take anything you read or watch on the Internet to be true. You'll be amazed at how many times I've heard, "it must be true if it was in the Internet." People should fact check things to verify whether or not they're true. I don't use one source to get my news from. I use several. The problem with news is that it's not uncommon for something to be reported in a manner that fits an agenda. Like how people will intentionally take scripture out of context to fit an agenda that isn't biblical.

I suspected right away because there was no background audio from all those people behind the "reporter" that something was not right and became suspicious. This caused me to look more closely at her. Then what she was reporting didn't sound credible, especially because the video she used of Tehran and the military didn't fit her report. Then I began looking for other sources reporting what she was. I didn't find any to verify it. Then I decided to research The Daily Jargan.

It's really sad today that people will automatically believe something because on the surface it appears legitimate, or it fits with one's own ideals or desires. Always fact check it first before passing it on.

Thanks. You sound very experienced in this area, far more than I am. I can spot and debunk false narratives on the Internet that are about my own areas of expertise (language, Bible, martial arts), but this kind of thing is outside of my experience and areas of expertise.

 

[asterisktom]

I'm wondering why this is in the Baptist Theology & Bible Study" forum. No Scripture or theology was given. And note that aterisktom himself is the author. (Is he putting forth anti-Zionism as theology?) And in the article itself, only the story of the Good Samaritan is mentioned, which has literally no connection whatsoever to Zionism.

I started to respond to your comments, John, but when I saw this I doubt it would be worth it. Do you really see no connection between the Good Samaritan passage and Zionist indifference to the Gazan plight? Incredible.

 

[asterisktom]

I do not know that asterisktom has read "The Protocols of the Elders...," though it is easily available on the Internet. However, that completely fictional Russian book is the source of much of the anti-Israel sentiment both throughout the 20th century, and now apparently in the 21st century. It is all over the Internet, but even Wikipedia (which is often wrong) calls it an "antisemitic hoax and forgery" (The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Wikipedia). The Nazis used it, and it is the source of much modern antisemitism.

I have not read it and would not bother trying. But, since you mentioned my supposed "antisemitism", you surely must know that the term is dishonest and misleading. Reading Genesis you cannot miss the truth that the Semites included, not just the Jews, but Arabs and others as well. So, speaking against Palestinians - some of whom are Christians - would also be antisemitism, just as much as anything said against Jews. But the Zionists among the Jews have weaponized the term to only refer to themselves. And you naively accept their distortion.

 

[asterisktom]

So focus on it less and preach the gospel instead if it is offensive to you.

I do that as well. This is not an either-or situation. What seems merely to be petty offense to you is really an outworking of the Gospel that I love.

 

[asterisktom]

I'm wondering why this is in the Baptist Theology & Bible Study" forum. No Scripture or theology was given. And note that aterisktom himself is the author. (Is he putting forth anti-Zionism as theology?) And in the article itself, only the story of the Good Samaritan is mentioned, which has literally no connection whatsoever to Zionism.

"21And children were born also to Shem, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder. 22The sons of Shem were Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud, and Aram. 23The sons of Aram were Uz, Hul, Gether, and [e]Mash. 24Arphaxad begot Salah, and Salah begot Eber. 25To Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan. 26Joktan begot Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, 27Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, 28Obal, Abimael, Sheba, 29Ophir, Havilah, and Jobab. All these were the sons of Joktan. 30And their dwelling place was from Mesha as you go toward Sephar, the mountain of the east. 31These were the sons of Shem, according to their families, according to their languages, in their lands, according to their nations." - Gen. 10:21-31

We could also continue with 1 Chron. 1. But surely the above should be adequate Bible references to suit you, John, since my one citation of Luke 10 did not seem to sufficiently qualify as "scripture or theology".

To anyone else reading this and not seeing the OP, this is to clearly prove that the term "antisemitism" should never be narrowed down to only refer to Jews. They are only part of the super-family of Shem. Included in this group, beisdes Arabs, are some people in Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, and others. Speaking against these would also be antisemitism. The real reach of the term is so wide and diffuse that there really is no purpose in even using it. But knowing this requires one to be biblically-grounded, not politically goaded.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Zionism is one extreme, Replacement Theology is the other.

I reject the notion that we should back Israel unconditionally no matter what. Therefore, some of the things that Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee have said regarding this are rather disturbing. We (the United States Government) should ABSOLUTELY NOT base foreign policy on Gen 12:1-3! I have voted faithfully for Ted Cruz (my Senator) and will continue to do so but he is DEAD WRONG concerning this matter!

Certain Covenant Theologians (espousing "Replacement Theology") go to the opposite end of the extreme pretty much taking sides with those who want to see Israel completely wiped off the map! Their blatant anti-semitism is absolutely sickening!

We need to be in the business of preaching the Gospel of Christ! How can we proclaim Christ to the Arab world while waving around an Israeli flag? There are believers in Palestine, Lebanon, and Iran. How many Churches are there in Israel that are comprised largely of ethnic Jews who have become belivers in Christ? They are not all Israel which are of Israel but although they are enemies for our sake, they are beloved for their (fore)fathers sake!

 

[asterisktom]

I disagree with the OP.

...

But Israel is a nation. It has the right to srlf-determination.

John, were not the Palestinians also a nation? There is ample published and photographic proof of that. And, as such, they also had a right to self-determination. Or were their rights obliterated when their towns were obliterated in the Nakhba?

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I disagree with the OP.

Zionism is the idea of the creation of a Jewish national state. But that state has already been established.

Having been established zionism is the idea that Israel is a sovereign nation (Israel has the right to defend itself, to govern itself).

The Jewish understanding of their identity is in opposition to the gospel, but so is the Muslim understanding of their identity.

We could question whether the Balfour Declaration was the proper thing to do, just as we could question whether Britan had the right to establish American colonies, the US to gain territory, etc.

But Israel is a nation. It has the right to srlf-determination.

Agreed but I would define "Extreme Zionism" (the one that is largely objected to by reasonable people) as people taking it upon themselves to fulfil end-times prophecy! We can look all throughout Church History to understand how such typically pans out!

All of this is quite timely. We are discussing Gen 12 and the "Call of Abraham" in our Wednesday Bible Study this evening.

 

[asterisktom]

Zionism is one extreme, Replacement Theology is the other.

I reject the notion that we should back Israel unconditionally no matter what. Therefore, some of the things that Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee have said regarding this are rather disturbing. We (the United States Government) should ABSOLUTELY NOT base foreign policy on Gen 12:1-3! I have voted faithfully for Ted Cruz (my Senator) and will continue to do so but he is DEAD WRONG concerning this matter!

Certain Covenant Theologians (espousing "Replacement Theology") go to the opposite end of the extreme pretty much taking sides with those who want to see Israel completely wiped off the map! Their blatant anti-semitism is absolutely sickening!

We need to be in the business of preaching the Gospel of Christ! How can we proclaim Christ to the Arab world while waving around an Israeli flag? There are believers in Palestine, Lebanon, and Iran. How many Churches are there in Israel that are comprised largely of ethnic Jews who have become belivers in Christ? They are not all Israel which are of Israel but although they are enemies for our sake, they are beloved for their (fore)fathers sake!

I certainly do not want Israel to be wiped off the map. I feel sorry for those citizens who are dragged into and are suffering from this war.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I certainly do not want Israel to be wiped off the map. I feel sorry for those citizens who are dragged into and are suffering from this war.

There are good people caught up in the middle on both sides of the conflict and we ought to remember them! War sucks and no one hates war more than those who have to actually go out and fight!

 

[John of Japan]

I started to respond to your comments, John, but when I saw this I doubt it would be worth it. Do you really see no connection between the Good Samaritan passage and Zionist indifference to the Gazan plight? Incredible.

Putting words in my mouth, aren't you? And I still see no theology there. And I do not see from the 100s of news programs I've seen and read about the whole thing that Israel is "indifferent" to Gaza. In fact, they have been incredibly careful in their attacks to avoid civilian population, unlike Hamas. Do you agree that Hamas raped and killed many hundreds of Israelis, including babies and little children? Does that mean nothing to you?