MacArthur on the Purpose Driven Life

[historyb]

No he's not, it needs to be put in context. It is by God's grace through faith alone not just faith alone. He was clarifying

 

[EdSutton]

""Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny"

Did that quote come from John McArthur?

If so...all I can say is wow. Very saddening.

I'm shocked at encountering such an erronious understanding of the gospel. Even though I have known that McArthur is very legalistic at times...THIS goes beyond what I have know of McArthur up till now. This statement is every bit as heretical as the Catholics and Orthodoxs false views of salvation.

Very sad. :tear:

Welcome to the real world.

As 'defined' by the gospel of "Lordship Salvation" , that is.

Unfortunately. :tear:

Ed

 

[historyb]

Lordship is nothing more than have Christ Lord over every aspect as opposed to modern Evangelicalism which has become a mix of seeker sensitive and easy believeism non sense.

Many are not comfortable letting Christ truly be Lord

 

[EdSutton]

McArthur again (bolding mine)...

John Macarthur: Yes, by grace through faith--not by faith alone. By grace through faith."

My goodness. John McArthur is denying the gospel of Jesus Christ. I mean, I just dont know any other way of putting it.

My last post had 1 crying dude. This one get 3...

:tear::tear::tear:

Unlike the previous statement I alluded to, this statement (in blue) is actually Biblical. It's from Eph. 2:8: And one has been able to read this in English for 6 1/4 centuries and counting, including the D-R.

8 For by grace ye be saved by faith, and this not of you; for it is the gift of God, (WYC)

8 For by grace are ye saued thorow faith, and that not of youre selues, For it is ye gifte of God, (MCB)

8 For by grace are ye saued through faith, and that not of your selues: it is the gift of God, (GEN)


8 For by grace you are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God. (D-R)

8 For by grace are ye saued, through faith, and that not of your selues: it is the gift of God: (KJ-1611)

8 For by grace ye are saved through faith; and this not of yourselves: (WES)

8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift, (YLT)

8 For ye are saved by grace, through faith; and this not of yourselves; it is God's gift: (DBY)

8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God (RV, ASV)

8 For by [SIZE=-1]R90[/SIZE] grace you have been saved through [SIZE=-1]R91[/SIZE] faith; and that [SIZE=-1]F32[/SIZE] not of yourselves, it is the [SIZE=-1]R92[/SIZE] gift of God; (NASB)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— (NIV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, (NKJV)

8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift -- (HCSB)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (ESV)

8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. (NLT)

Seems clear enough to me.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Lordship is nothing more than have Christ Lord over every aspect as opposed to modern Evangelicalism which has become a mix of seeker sensitive and easy believeism non sense.

Many are not comfortable letting Christ truly be Lord

Nothing like a couple of 'free shot' pejoratives, I guess.

Are you suggesting "hard-believism" as some alternative?

Exactly what is that?

FTR, let it be said that "Lordship" is an inaccurate presentation of what is being claimed is necessary for salvation, by those who proclaim "Lordship salvation" but rather is effectively a 'mixing' of faith and works for salvation.

Think I'll quote some fellow named Saul Paul, who quotes someone else you may have heard of, as well, for a different POV.

Abraham Justified by Faith

1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[a] 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[b] 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

David Celebrates the Same Truth

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “ Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”[c](Rom. 4:1-8 - NKJV)

Me?? I'm going to go along with these two fellows, Paul and David.

Ed

 

[Revmitchell]

There is often a semantical game played in discussions like these. This debate is no different then the Reformed debates. Whether it is understood or decided in a man's heart prior to salvation or as a result of salvation is a thin line. Of course many do not have a problem believing that man must believe prior to salvation. So why is that any less works? At least our reformed brothers are consistent in that area. To many think they know what works is and it is always assumed but never explained.Is it true that any effort or action or thought on man's part constitute works? And if so Why does believe not fall in that category? Seems pretty inconsistent to me.

If Christ is not Lord whether that understanding or decision occurs prior to or after ( what ever game you want to play with that) then you have a salvation problem.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

 

[Rhetorician]

Dog in the Fight?

Brethren;

"I don't have a dog in this fight," but cannot we appeal to a Master's Seminary grad, who is a Baptist, who has sat under MacArthur's preaching to come and give us "more light than heat" on this one?:thumbsup:

"That is all!"

 

[webdog]

Lordship is nothing more than have Christ Lord over every aspect as opposed to modern Evangelicalism which has become a mix of seeker sensitive and easy believeism non sense.

Many are not comfortable letting Christ truly be Lord

...yet the quotes I have supplied from LS'ers don't support that. True repentance is not turning from sin FOR salvation, it is turning to Christ FOR salvation. Any "upfront commitments" to stop sinning in exchange for salvation (Macarthur's own words) is nothing more than RCC works based soteriology.

 

[Revmitchell]

...yet the quotes I have supplied from LS'ers don't support that. True repentance is not turning from sin FOR salvation, it is turning to Christ FOR salvation. Any "upfront commitments" to stop sinning in exchange for salvation (Macarthur's own words) is nothing more than RCC works based soteriology.

Then any "upfront commitments" to believe is works as well.

 

[gb93433]

God uses different ways of reaching people. The majority hear the good news from a friend but not everybody does. I have never met two people who have the same testimony.Whatever one calls that is not necessary. What is necessary is that the person follows Christ alone.

 

[webdog]

Then any "upfront commitments" to believe is works as well.

If only faith were considered a work, but Scripture plainly states it is not. Making an "upfront commitment" to stop sin is most definitely considered a work (not to mention an impossibility for a spiritually dead person), because it is following the Law, or rather it is not breaking God's Law, which is how sin is defined.

 

[Revmitchell]

If only faith were considered a work, but Scripture plainly states it is not. Making an "upfront commitment" to stop sin is most definitely considered a work (not to mention an impossibility for a spiritually dead person), because it is following the Law, or rather it is not breaking God's Law, which is how sin is defined.

You did not address what I said. Making and up front decision to believe is the same action as making an up front decision to make Christ Lord. They are both up front decisions. To say it is not a work simply because God said so is to accuse God of being inconsistent. Both are up front decisions that is their nature. So they are either both works or neither is. No way around that.

 

[webdog]

You did not address what I said. Making and up front decision to believe is the same action as making an up front decision to make Christ Lord. They are both up front decisions. To say it is not a work simply because God said so is to accuse God of being inconsistent. Both are up front decisions that is their nature. So they are either both works or neither is. No way around that.

The problem you have is an unregenerated person can make an upfront commitment to believe, but an unregenerated person cannot make an upfront commitment to do something his nature has no clue what is involed. Confusing sanctification with justification is the issue here. Either way, true biblical repentance is the former, not the latter. I see no incosistancies whatsoever, as a commitment to a non work (faith) and a commitment to works (Law) are not the same actions.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

The problem you have is an unregenerated person can make an upfront commitment to believe, but an unregenerated person cannot make an upfront commitment to do something his nature has no clue what is involed. Confusing sanctification with justification is the issue here. Either way, true biblical repentance is the former, not the latter. I see no incosistancies whatsoever, as a commitment to a non work (faith) and a commitment to works (Law) are not the same actions.

Since its in conjunction with the Purpose Driven Whatever; I would say that an upfront commitment should take 40 days. Just saying.

 

[Revmitchell]

The problem you have is an unregenerated person can make an upfront commitment to believe, but an unregenerated person cannot make an upfront commitment to do something his nature has no clue what is involed. Confusing sanctification with justification is the issue here. Either way, true biblical repentance is the former, not the latter. I see no incosistancies whatsoever, as a commitment to a non work (faith) and a commitment to works (Law) are not the same actions.

You are assuming that believing and making Christ Lord are different.

 

[gb93433]

"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny"

I think we must remember that there are three tenses of salvation. They are past, present and future. The idea that we are saved, we are working out our salvation, and those who endure will be saved. Which is MacArthur making reference to?

 

[gb93433]

You are assuming that believing and making Christ Lord are different.

How would you interpret 1 Cor. 3:15, "If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

 

[Revmitchell]

How would you interpret 1 Cor. 3:15, "If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

Why don't you first tell me how in the world you find this verse is relevant to this thread?

 

[webdog]

You are assuming that believing and making Christ Lord are different.

We don't make Him anything, especially in a unregenerated state.

 

[webdog]

I think we must remember that there are three tenses of salvation. They are past, present and future. The idea that we are saved, we are working out our salvation, and those who endure will be saved. Which is MacArthur making reference to?

Justification.