Love wins

[Crabtownboy]

Bells flippant attitude regarding people considering Ghandi to be in hell (in the liked video) certainly doesnt help his standing in my mind.

Of course, we cant *defintively* declare Ghandi as being in hell, as the possibility exists that Ghandi placed his faith in Christ moments before he died.

But I think its reasonable to assume that Ghandi more then likely did not do that.

And if that is true...and it probably is...Ghandi is indeed in hell.

And Bell should know that, and be willing to acknowledge that as probably being true.

There is a very sad story in Ghandi's autobiography that goes something like the following quote:

In his autobiography, Mahatma Ghandi wrote that during his student days he read the Gospels and considered converting to Christianity. He believed that in teachings of Jesus he could find the solution to the caste system that was dividing the people of India. So one Sunday He decided to attend services at a nearby church and talk to the minister about becoming a Christian. When he entered the church however, the usher refused to give him a seat and suggested that he go and worship with his own people. Ghandi left the church and never returned. “If Christians have caste differences also” Ghandi said “I might as well remain a Hindu”

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...t=clnk&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com

This, to me, is a tragic story.

 

[HAMel]

This poor boy wrote the book to make money.

Am I a clairvoyant? Have ESP? See into his heart? ...no.

Why do I suspect his motives?

Let me ask you this. How many of you really believe this guy has an inside track to God otherwise forbidden for the rest of us? How is it that he can see what no other man has ever been able to see before?

He's seeking a new group of followers for his own personal good. Pure and simple.

 

[Amy.G]

In his autobiography, Mahatma Ghandi wrote that during his student days he read the Gospels and considered converting to Christianity. He believed that in teachings of Jesus he could find the solution to the caste system that was dividing the people of India. So one Sunday He decided to attend services at a nearby church and talk to the minister about becoming a Christian. When he entered the church however, the usher refused to give him a seat and suggested that he go and worship with his own people. Ghandi left the church and never returned. “If Christians have caste differences also” Ghandi said “I might as well remain a Hindu”

If this quote is true, then indeed it is a tragedy that Christians behaved in such a way. It reminds me of the recent thread that asked should unbelievers be allowed to attend church.

However, Gandhi is still responsible to God for rejecting His Son. The person(s) that told him to leave the church are also responsible to God. Every man will be judged by his own works.

 

[PastorGreg]

Rob Bell is a rank heretic and I will not be buying this, nor any of his works.

 

[Amy.G]

Rob Bell is a rank heretic and I will not be buying this, nor any of his works.

Indeed. :thumbs:

 

[preachinjesus]

I wanted to add something with my former post about observations:

One of the practices that has immensely helped me in my personal theological development, and also spiritual development, has been reading books I don't agree with by authors I don't agree with. I know not everyone shares this view, but I think there is something tremendously important for anyone to read and contemplate things they don't agree with because it refines our beliefs and structures our thoughts. It is a helpful practice imho.

My position on Bell's book is that I will be happy to read because it is an essential issue/question in the Church today. I will not, however, buy his book because I think it is a marketing ploy by HarperOne to make a ton of money (which they have.)

As a backstory to this, Zondervan had been publishing Rob's books and materials for a while. They had been very successful books and made the company good money. Yet when Rob presented his book proposal Zondervan amicably cut ties with him citing that this text violated their mission statement. Interesting stuff, I respect Zondervan a bit more from that.

 

[annsni]

Rob Bell is a rank heretic and I will not be buying this, nor any of his works.

Please don't hold back. Let us know how you truly feel. LOL

I'm with you. I have so many books to read and I don't need to read junk. I know people say to eat the meat and spit out the bones but when you have a very bony piece of meat with not even great quality meat left after the bones, or else filet mignon, it's an easy choice.

 

[Alive in Christ]

There is a very sad story in Ghandi's autobiography that goes something like the following quote: In his autobiography, Mahatma Ghandi wrote that during his student days he read the Gospels and considered converting to Christianity. He believed that in teachings of Jesus he could find the solution to the caste system that was dividing the people of India. So one Sunday He decided to attend services at a nearby church and talk to the minister about becoming a Christian. When he entered the church however, the usher refused to give him a seat and suggested that he go and worship with his own people. Ghandi left the church and never returned. “If Christians have caste differences also” Ghandi said “I might as well remain a Hindu”

Oh...my. I've never heard that before.

Wow......WOW...its like I've been hit in the stomach.

Ghandi came seeking...(((SEEKING!)))

And they turned him away!!!

Gosh, how could they do that? What were they thinking?

wow

 

[glfredrick]

Please don't hold back. Let us know how you truly feel. LOL

I'm with you. I have so many books to read and I don't need to read junk. I know people say to eat the meat and spit out the bones but when you have a very bony piece of meat with not even great quality meat left after the bones, or else filet mignon, it's an easy choice.

Ann, the reason I suggested reading Bell's book is because he does have some "meat" within his pages.

He asks some very difficult questions that the church should deal with, and in many cases we are not. We may not agree with his conclusions (almost certainly not!) but that does not make the difficult question(s) go away!

What is out teaching on "heaven?" Is it as weak as Bell indicates? I've seen in a lot of cases that it is. Does that mean that we modify our teaching to reflect Bell's ultimate take on eternity? Nope. He carries libertarian free will far too far (See my thread on the limits of free will, and so far NNE has actually got to the OP in that thread!) and ultimately makes eternity of no account -- an "earth-like" existence of pure freedom. Or what of his questions about the level of teaching in the Evangelical world? Is he right that we've so "watered down" (paraphrase of what Bell said more elegantly) our teaching that we are creating an entire generation of biblical illiterates? I believe he is correct! But, again, I might not accept his ideas to remedy the issue.

Hope that helps to clarify some of my issues...

 

[glfredrick]

[/SIZE][/FONT]



Oh...my. I've never heard that before.

Wow......WOW...its like I've been hit in the stomach.

Ghandi came seeking...(((SEEKING!)))

And they turned him away!!!

Gosh, how could they do that? What were they thinking?

wow

Happens every day in a church somewhere.

We get excited when it is a person like Gandhi, or Einstein, or Sagan, or whomever, but in truth, the things we do in so many of our churches advertises to the lost word, "Don't you dare come in here like that..."

Ever see a little old lady knock the ball cap off of a visitor? I have...

Ever see an elderly member ask a visitor to move because that is his pew and those are his books in the pew back before him? I have...

Ever see a member wet his pew cushion (and the front of his pants) week after week, and yet be the first to shake the hands of visitors that entered the church? I have...

Ever seen someone come to the church to get difficult questions answered, and who were turned away with a sharp, "We don't ask questions like that around here?" I have...

Wish that was all I've seen. We've turned away tens of thousands of Gandhi's. :BangHead:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Happens every day in a church somewhere.

We get excited when it is a person like Gandhi, or Einstein, or Sagan, or whomever, but in truth, the things we do in so many of our churches advertises to the lost word, "Don't you dare come in here like that..."

Ever see a little old lady knock the ball cap off of a visitor? I have...

Ever see an elderly member ask a visitor to move because that is his pew and those are his books in the pew back before him? I have...

Ever see a member wet his pew cushion (and the front of his pants) week after week, and yet be the first to shake the hands of visitors that entered the church? I have...

Ever seen someone come to the church to get difficult questions answered, and who were turned away with a sharp, "We don't ask questions like that around here?" I have...

Wish that was all I've seen. We've turned away tens of thousands of Gandhi's. :BangHead:

Yep....yep....yep....I've seen those things as well, sadly.

Book of James..."If one comes to you in filthy clothes....

 

[Amy.G]

Happens every day in a church somewhere.

We get excited when it is a person like Gandhi, or Einstein, or Sagan, or whomever, but in truth, the things we do in so many of our churches advertises to the lost word, "Don't you dare come in here like that..."

Ever see a little old lady knock the ball cap off of a visitor? I have...

Ever see an elderly member ask a visitor to move because that is his pew and those are his books in the pew back before him? I have...

Ever see a member wet his pew cushion (and the front of his pants) week after week, and yet be the first to shake the hands of visitors that entered the church? I have...

Ever seen someone come to the church to get difficult questions answered, and who were turned away with a sharp, "We don't ask questions like that around here?" I have...

Wish that was all I've seen. We've turned away tens of thousands of Gandhi's. :BangHead:

That is horrible!! And disgusting.

 

[InTheLight]

I can see how Bell would be attractive for some on this board, for his ideas are akin to many of the posts I've seen here, i.e., the supremacy of libertarian free will, etc.

I've been reading BB for about 5 months now and I've never seen anyone assert the supremacy of libertarian free will. Could you provide a link(s) so I could see these sorts of posts?

And no, I won't be buying or reading Bell's new book.

 

[PastorGreg]

Rob Bell is a rank heretic and I will not be buying this, nor any of his works.

I bought the book.

 

[Benjamin]

I bought the book.

:laugh: Let us know what you think.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Oh my! I agree with GL!

Bell's book is on my list, but I expect it will be after Easter before I have time to do it justice.

 

[glfredrick]

I've been reading BB for about 5 months now and I've never seen anyone assert the supremacy of libertarian free will. Could you provide a link(s) so I could see these sorts of posts?

And no, I won't be buying or reading Bell's new book.

No, but just search all the posts of Skandelon or a few others here on the board and you'll find it.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I was in the Local Lifeway bookstore Saturday and inquired if they would have Rob Bells book Tuesday. Their reply way "no but we will order it for anyone who wishes a copy". I plan on reading it along with my pastor. Out of curiosity how many of you brothers and sisters plan on reading it?

Why? It's Rob Bell.

Since when are we to spend our time reading the works of false teachers?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Third, Bell's book is not completely a lie.

That's true. The part about it being written by Rob Bell actually is true.

Everything else is junk.

In this case, discernment to "eat the meat and spit out the bones" is in order.

Could you please refresh my memory? Where does the Bible say, "Go ahead and indulge in false teachings. There's probably something good there somewhere"?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Bell's book is on my list

What a surprise.