Omniscience

I'm not blaming God. My example is fine and I'm not changing the meaning of the word. You are limiting the meaning to one definition. Words have multiple meanings.
If there is something that happens, and I could stop it and don't, then in that sense, I have allowed the event to happen by not stopping it. Nobody is blaming God(or at least nobody should be). I'm responsible for my sin, not God.

Yes, God allowed by to sin. Not gave me permission to sin, but permitted it to happen by not stopping it.

 

Omniscience: The property of knowing everything. The traditional philosophical problem is to reconcile the orthodox idea that God knows everything with the absence of predetermination, or in other words with the idea that whereas the past is fixed the future remains somehow ‘open’. To many thinkers it has seemed that if God knows, already, what will happen tomorrow, then human free will and responsibility must be a mere sham.

Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy:



Omniscience : The attribute that denotes God knowing all things. Omniscience means that all events are present to the divine mind; that is, God has direct cognition of everything in creation.

Getz, Stanley J., David Guretzki and Cherith Fee Nordling, Pocket Dictionary of Theological Terms, Inter-Varsity Press, Downers Grove, Illinois, p. 86

 

Did I say I did not believe it? I may not believe it in the same way as you. Also I have said it depends on how you view time ... and to my knowledge the Bible never defines time.

I respectfully disagree. Occasionally an orthodox priest visits the library here. If I have the opportunity I will ask him how he and the Orthodox Church views Calvinism.

It seems to me if the Orthodox church held his beliefs he would not have been opposed by Rome. I don't know how the Eastern Orthodox view him. Good research topic. I will do some research and post a thread on this the topic of Calvin and Orthodox Church beliefs.

When you say orthodox my guess is that you do not mean the Orthodox church but "orthodox" folks who agree with you. :laugh: [Please, this was gentle humor and no attempt to insult.]

It is no problem for me as you and others have convinced me that Calvin, at least as you and others have described it is not Biblical. So, you have moved me from a neutral position to one that is no longer neutral.

Show me in Christ's teachings and example from his dealings with others where he viewed some as elect and others as damned by God. Certainly he did not show such an attitude with the woman at the well, the woman taken in adultery, the rich young ruler, not in any of his parables.

Can you imagine him in his sermon on the mount saying, "Well, folk some of you are of the elect, not because of anything you have done or believed and some of you are not of the elect and it has nothing to do with what you have done or believed. It was God who decided before the creation that you are not to live with him in paradise regardless of your beliefs or actions."

 

Do you mean as long as my belief is the same are yours?

I am sure they would find it interesting to learn this fact. Me thinks they might disagree with you just a tab on this.

This is one of the aspects of Calvinist's I find most interesting ... insult or try to insult those who do not agree with me.

Actually I find this an admission that you realize your argument is weak.

Have I ever said that I am Pentecostal or a follower of "oneness?"

By this I assume you mean until I agree with you. Would you like to compare degrees? :laugh:

I also find it interesting that Calvinist seemingly never quote Christ or show examples of his life to support their un-biblical beliefs. Now if this is not hard to do, as you state above, please do so and educate us poor uneducated folk. It would be most appreciated.

Again I take your attempted insult as a sign of the weakness of your argument ... and your non-answer as another sign that your argument is not Christ centered.

 

So educate me. In you opinion what is Historical Christian Orthodoxy?

Again, so educated us poor folk. Yes, I am being sincere.

If I directed the same type of reply to you ... you mean you would not see them as at least an attempt to insult?

They why bring up the "holiday?"

Again, please educate me.

Life-long Baptist ... traditional not the modern folk who are no longer Baptist and lots of reading. No seminary training.

I know nothing about Southeastern Free Will Baptist College. I am familiar with Liberty.

So show me in his dealings with people, in his Sermon on the Mout and/or his parables where he shows there is an elect and the non-elect.

I always ask for information sincerely. I spent my life gathering information for others and for myself. That is how I made a living.

So educate me ... but expect sincere questions.

 

How does God become less God, or give up His attributes? Also, dying doesn't mean He didn't exist, hence He did not become un-eternal. Finite beings cannot fully comprehend what is fully entailed within omniscience. Every vote on this poll is mere speculation as omniscience (like omnipresence and omnipotence) to the human mind is a mytery.

 

It's not a mystery. The Bible is very clear that God knows everything. Jesus died, God cannot die. Jesus walked around on this earth(singular location) God is omnipresent. Jesus was human, God is spirit. He wasn't any less God. I never said he was. He didn't "give up" his attributes but didn't hold on to them by humbling himself. You say that Jesus as the God man is confusing and a mystery. True, so then don't use that mystery to be an excuse to ignore clear biblical teaching.

It's not speculation nor a mystery. God is omniscient.
1 John 3:19-20
Job 37:16
Psalms 147:5
Proverbs 15:3
Acts 15:18

The only verse you have to deny the biblical truth of the omniscience of God is Mark 13:32 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Unless the Son and the Father are not both God, then with the Father knowing, God knows. Still have God knowing everything. As I agreed, it is a mystery between the Father and Son, but it's not a mystery of God knowing everything.


I'm really shocked that there are baptists here denying truths like the omniscience of God.

 

How come some of you that argue that God doesn't know everything haven't voted in the poll? Ashamed of your beliefs? I respect Freeatlast for voting the way he did. I of course disagree, but at least he had the courage to stand up and say what he believes.

 

...and now we are fight back to you separating Christ's humanity from His deity. How many times must you be told you cannot do this?! The hypostatic union IS A MYSTERY. Christ's humanity and deity cannot be separated! This error started in the early church and is true today, I guess. Sad.

I've repeatedly maintained omniscience is a trait only God can possess.

Who ever said that was the only one? There are numerous verses with God dealing with man within time in a manner we do not understand including the Hezekiah account and what God said in Jeremiah 7:31 "They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire--something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind."

Didn't Christ say while on Earth that He was in the Father and the Father in Him? Separate Christ's humanity and divinity with that one...

Strawman as nobody has denied it. I'm shocked there are baptists that think they can truly understand what omniscience entails with our feeble minds.

 

Did you not see where I stated there should be a third view? The poll is a false dichotomy steered to gain a particular response. Anyone can see this.

 

An allowance is permission.
MB

 

I just quoted Scripture. Deal with it. Did Jesus die? YES. Can God die? NO. Is Jesus Human? YES. Is God Human? NO. Jesus was fully God and fully man. 100% both. Phil 2:8-9. Read the passage. Don't tell me about early church errors, just read the passage.

Then what are you arguing with me for then? and please vote that way in the poll if you really mean that.

good passage about God not being the author of sin btw...

So the Father died on the cross? Did Jesus Human die for God? Was God dead for 3 days? Jesus' human body was dead for three days.

Van and winman are two that have. Freeatlast has and voted that way in the poll. Not a straw man. Not sure why you even said it was.

Never said I understand it, just understand it's true.

 

What's the third view? Either he does or he doesn't.