Scriptures Calvinists must deal with, continued...

If you can't define what world Christ died for, how do you know that you are one of the elect? Please explain.
If salvation is all of God, inasmuch as God even has to give the faith to the one believing, then how do you know God gave you faith to believe? Or was it your own faith all along? Please explain.
Explain,
How when the Scriptures say: "Being justified by faith we have peace with God," you say that faith isn't our faith but God's faith simply because "salvation is all of God."
And give a good Biblical answer how you can know for sure that you are one of the elect.

 

Both of our "systems" have that Luke. Your system just has God effectually making the man more humble and my system says the man must "humble himself."

My system just so happens to use the same terminology as the scriptures though. So, point for me.

Yes it is. Thanks for making it clear. :thumbsup:

Find me one quote from any Calvinist writing that has said man can boast in the fact that he understands and knows the Lord. Jeremiah doesn't qualify this passage with endless explanations on how we came to understand and know, it just tells us to boast in it....something a Calvinist would NEVER do.

We get it from God. The reasons others perish is because they refuse to accept what they has been clearly revealed. Period.

Or better yet, let him enter in to the kingdom of heaven. The whole system of reward and punishment makes no since in a world where God is the only actor. He is simply rewarding and punishing himself for what He made his puppets do.

Lay what rewards at his feet, the ones he earned for himself? That makes no sense. The rewards are given to the poor in spirit, the humble at heart. It says, "Humble YOURSELF and you will be lifted up." Not the other way around... "He will lift you up (regenerate you) and make you want to be humble."

 

What I see from their

What I see from their post is, they want to get anybody to believe they were chosen before the foundation of the world. They didn't do anything so they can't receive any praise, God just choose them. Then once you believe all this, then you can learn about Christ and why you are chosen.

That is why he starts talking about you are better than everyone else that you can be saved and billions die and suffer in hell.

So no matter what you say about what you did for Christ when ask to trust in Him, to poor out your testimony how God changed your life through Jesus Christ you are caught up in his catch 22.

 

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Had a whole reply I lost on my phone and will not allow me to edit all of those commas. Will respond after the weekend...not ducking and covering...busy.

 

Guys, please consider that there are lost people reading through these boards looking for answers to very difficult questions. They will know us by our love for each other.

Luke, being a smart alek is one thing, but name calling and personal insults is even worse. Both are unnecessary, and I know I can tend to drift toward the mud too when provoked, but we must fight against this tendency. Two wrongs don't make it right and each of you are only responsible for how you respond to your brother in Christ. (dang, now I sound like I'm talking to my kids...sorry, but it applies here too, I really am not trying to talk down to you, because I fail too)

1 John 3:14
We know that we have left our old dead condition and entered into new life. We know it because we love one another. Those who do not are still living in their old condition.

I beg you both to consider the blatantly clear scriptures on these matters as you debate the less clear scriptures on other matters. Thanks

 

Skan, I'll have to both agree and disagree. I think it is important that the casual reader who may not know Christ and visits here to see a pastor with the attitude Luke has called out and admonished...we are commanded to do this, actually. When he is spewing his venom and vitriol (not to mention physical threats, self described abrasiveness, demeaning of those with lesser formal education and outright unbecoming traits of the officer of elder / bishop / pastor)on thread after thread, as a brother he needs to be called out on it.

 

Yea right! What you did for Christ...:laugh:

 

The Best News Luke.... He had admitted he was indoctrinated by an off the wall Pastor (with very little education). some of the tactics used would get you totally upset if I told you. Thank the Lord he is away from that nonsense & he is under the direction of a good Calvinist pastor now. Whats even more encouraging is his family is now moving in the direction of embracing DoG. I'm totally excited! Praise God!

 

A gentle answer deflects anger, but harsh words make tempers flare. -Proverbs 15:1

I suspect that Luke and others would react differently if not acting through the medium of an online forum. He is probably and pretty reasonable guy in person. Sometimes the anonymity of an online forum leads us to say things we wouldn't otherwise. While I agree that we should confront sin in love we probably should do that through PMs since that is the rules of the board... Just my two cents. I'm no authority or anything, I need reminders too...I just happen to know many read these forums when they google certain questions and the way were treat each other is a reflection of what we claim to believe.

 

I hear you, Skandelon. However, the debits to the Kingdom are not limited to just the one you mentioned. I don't want to name names. Well, yes I do, but I won't. I'll just say that people who live in glass houses....well, you know the rest. Some need to get the log out of their own eye first.

We can disagree without being disagreeable. But most choose not to. You're right. I think the keyboard gives some a tad more testosterone than they'd have if face to face.

I close with this: I don't care how theologically bent you are - when you contend in the flesh, you're sinning, regardless of how "right" you are.

And we all need grace here from time to time, don't we?

 

It is amazing what we can do with the words of life as to where we are heading without it and all we can't do without it.

So Christ is doing everything we are the messenger, but we know the messenger is nothing it is the one who sent the messenger and gave the message that is to be praised and glorified.

God loved the world is all I needed to begin my walk, the words of life, before I even knew the one who gave it.

The hardest thing was for me to accept is that only those who heard the words of Life and believed will be saved and the rest will be condemned. To trust in Jesus isn't work and it credits to us righteousness. None of this makes me different than anyone else all men have the same hope as me and God made us His messengers

 

I didn't mean to insinuate that it was limited to any one individual. He was just the one making personal attacks on this thread.

Please bring a specific charge with a specific quote, I'm more than happy to receive an appropriate rebuke when it is warranted. I don't remember you ever needing to do that with me, Tom...But if it was needed which this comment seems to indicate, why wasn't it brought?

Also, Tom, if you read my previous posts you will see that I clearly owned up to my own tendency to stoop to harsh retorts and the need to be reminded of these things, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring this rebuke to my comments??? Maybe, I'm misreading your intent?

Very true.

Yes we do!

 

Very much so. I was not thinking of you in the slightest, Skandelon. Not even ALMOST on my radar screen. My apologies. I should've specified I wasn't directing this at you.

Would to God that others on this thread had your demeanor.

 

Let me make this abundantly clear for you & us all.....lets read Eph. 2:8-9

"It is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the gift of God--NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast."

We agree correct?

 

Romans 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[Gen. 15:6; also in verse 22]

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[Psalm 32:1,2]

We boast in the work of Christ, because we can't boast in our work when it isn't.

 

Only if you have the right context. It is salvation that is the gift of God. That is the gift, not the faith. "through faith" is simply a prepositional phrase that can be added in or taken out, and the statement still make sense. Salvation is the subject.

 

Since

The cost of our sin is death, so you can't do anything to pay your debt. You have to trust in the work of Jesus and His word. We are saved by grace and it is of Jesus, our Lord, our God and our Saviour.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I thought there might be a log I hadn't seen yet, and I already know of so many... :saint:

 

I agree with your comments about my system.

I am thrilled to hear you agree that the better ones go to heaven in your system.

I have never been able to get these nameless theology guys to admit that.

Those who are wise enough and decent enough to humble themselves go to heaven.

Those who are not as wise and not as decent go to hell.

Thank you for finally admitting this.

Yes, but you have already demonstrated that you do not get some things about Scriptural language that are essential to understanding the Scriptures correctly.

Anthropomorphic language for example.

BTW, I do believe that we humble ourselves. We do so because God ordained it, enabled it and brought it to pass.

Yes it is. Thanks for making it clear. :thumbsup:

Frankly that's a silly challenge.

I am a Calvinist and I wrote about it in the last post.

But it is dumb to ask somebody to spend hours scouring through literature to find a quote for you.

You're better than that.

He doesn't have to. We have the WHOLE BIBLE which must agree internally. That is why we HAVE theology.

But I am 100% for boasting that we know the Lord. 100% for it.

But the question is WHY? Why do we know the Lord and others do not?

You wish there could be a period there but it cannot be for thinking people.

What about those who "accept" this is different from those who do not?

In your system it is simply that they are BETTER. They are wiser and more humble.

You, in your system are going to heaven simply because for whatever reason you are a better man than the billions who are damned.

God is not the only actor. Stop debating people in your head and debate me.