the attributes of god

No, that's exactly what he's doing. He is reading the passage as a child would read it. It has nothing to do with him personally other than he is reading this passage as a child. I've done it before.

correct

 

Suggesting someone's reading level is like a child is a personal insult and most certainly an attack on their qualifications. It is an incendiary personal attack and should be avoided as per rule #4.

Also, the insinuation that Van doesn't believe in the one true God because he disagrees with you on this point is a violation of BB policies. Just consider this a friendly warning.

 

I didn't say his reading level was that of a child. I said he is reading this as a child. Major difference.

Really, where is that at? I deleted that comment though.

 

Shall we try again?
No answer Van???

 

--No good refutation of this theological term has been given. We use theological terminology. Or would you like to throw out: trinity, Christology, theology, atonement, justification, etc. If we throw out omniscient, why not throw out the rest of out theological terminology. Omniscient by its very definition and etymology means all-knowing. You cannot get by this one fact. It is you that has made up your own definition that is contrary to the Bible, to Bible dictionaries, and even to secular dictionaries. You lose on all three counts.

The meaning is very clear. God knows the hearts of ALL men--of all the world from the beginning of creation throughout all eternity. There is no qualifiers here. All means all. He knows the hearts of all men. He is omniscient without qualification.

From the ends of the earth (meaning the whole earth--everything there is to see), and see all there is under the whole heaven (now not just the earth but all the universe as well. He sees and knows absolutely everything. Nothing escapes his knowledge. He sees it all.

Whether it is in darkness or in light, there is not one thing hidden from God; not one thing! All is known to Him. He alone is omniscient. No one can escape from his omniscient. David couldn't. Read the entire Psalm to get even a better idea.

Another metaphor. How many stars are there in the universe. There is not a man, not even the most knowledgeable astronomer in the world today that knows. The number is beyond our knowledge, as God's knowledge is beyond our understanding. His knowledge is infinite, and a finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite God.

God's eye's see everywhere. They behold everything--good and bad. There is nothing he does not see or know.

God knows about hell and destruction. He knows even more about the hearts, the thoughts of every man that ever lived and ever will live. He is omniscient, for he knows all things.

There is no one but God that can name the stars. He alone is omniscient. He alone has such omniscient power.

Again his omniscient is stressed by the fact that he knows the hearts of all men that exist, existed, and will exist.

No creature is not unknown to God. He knows about all his creation in all ages. He is omniscient. There is not one bird that falls to the ground without God knowing about it. There is not a hair of a single person's head that is not counted--not in Christ's day, not in any age. He knows all--every thing.

Everything is known to God--from the beginning of the world throughout all eternity. He doesn't omit anything. He is omniscient.

Again, he saw all mankind. Nothing was hid from him.

He is the only God that is omniscient. There is no Allah, no other gods; no one that has the eternal powers that Jehovah has. He has told us from that time and declared it.

Should need no repetition, should it?

 

Psalms 103: 11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

He removes the guilt and penalty, He forgives our known (confessed) and unknown (unrightousness). He knows our sins but HE cast them as for as the east is from the west and that is a really far piece. They never meet, and He recalls them no more.

 

Either way it is personally insulting and unnecessary. Maybe you could say something like, "You are looking at this too simplistically" or just skip it... I think anyone would take offense to what you said. I know I would have, but then again I'm pretty simple too.

Thanks for editing that. The Admin says that policy is covered in Rules 3 and 4. Implying someone is unsaved or worships the wrong "god," is probably to most personally insulting thing anyone could say to a fellow believer and has always been against BB policy ever since I can remember, though it may be enforced more regularly at differing times.

 

Thanks. I get carried away sometimes.

 

Could you please share with us where the Bible ever says that God doesn't know something? We have a very good support for God knowing everything(the Bible specifically says so) but I have yet to see one passage that says something that God didn't know. You attempted with the "remembers no more" but that was very easily shot down.

btw, it's not just Calvinist that believe that God is omniscient. Neither Skandelon or DHK are Calvinist and believe that God is omniscient.

also, if you don't agree, then don't use the term. Don't pretend to believe God is omniscient when you don't really believe that. If you believe that God doesn't know all things, don't say God is omni(all)scient(knowing).

 

Van, the only reason to argue for God's self-limited knowledge is if you accept the fallacious premise that foreknowing is equal to predetermining. Why do you accept that premise?

 

I am not a Calvinist Van, and have never been one.
My definition is more valid than yours because I can find it:
1. In the Bible.
2. In a Bible dictionary.
3. In a secular dictionary.
4. In the very etymology of the word.
--Van, you can do none of those things because your definition is man-made according to your own philosophy and ideas, and your refusal to accept proper hermeneutical principles of interpretation of the Bible.

I gave you very good refutation. But you did not accept it.
Let me give you an example.
If I say, in my witnessing to an atheist:
"If I can prove to you beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus Christ arose from the dead proving that he is deity, will you accept my proof?"
His inevitable answer is "NO."
--You are like the atheist. If I give you irrefutable evidence, you will not accept it. Your mind is made up. You cannot be convinced.

That is like saying black doesn't have to refer to black; sometimes it can refer to white. Words have meanings. All-knowing means "all-knowing." We are not at liberty to change the meanings of words to our own fancy.

That is not true. Take a look at least at one verse:

Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. (Acts 15:18)
--"All his works from the beginning of the world," is not confined to the time of the author. It is a timeless verse that extends from the creation of the world throughout until eternity or at least to the end of the world. Either way it speaks of his omniscience, and that cannot be denied. Your argument fails in just this one verse alone.

Yours is the unbiblical view. I feel ashamed that any Muslim reading this board will laugh and revel in saying that Allah is greater than Jehovah or Christ, because the very first attribute of Allah is that he is "all-knowing." Your view of God puts the God of Christianity as less than the God of Islam. It robs him of his deity.

That is so untrue it almost amounts to a lie. I wish you hadn't posted it.

 

The bible never uses the terms 'God limits his knowledge,' that is your 'conjecture'. Both of us are speculating as to how an infinite God relates within time a space. I accept the mystery. You attempt to reconcile it by drawing conclusion that the text never draws...(i.e. God must limit his knowledge)

Please don't accuse those who disagree with you as believing God is a liar. That is a false dichotomy (i.e. He either limits his knowledge or lies)

 

just a few questions...
has there EVER been a time when God did NOT know everything that is possible to be known?
Did he EVER have to learn something new to Him?
Did God Cause all things, or does he have perfect foreknowledge, direct control over all that happens, but free to choose when to directly intervene, and when to 'allow" things to happen?

 

Hi Van, glad you took the time to answer. I don't want to get into a discussion of TULIP here as that would derail this thread.

Why would you say context precludes any of the verses that I have quoted and explained to you? God is an all-knowing God, and the Scriptures I have given to you demonstrate that. Even if he refers himself to all-knowing to the people of that generation it is still true for our generation. God is timeless.

God is timeless. He doesn't confine himself to any one group. If he did we would have to throw out the entire Bible, for it was completed 2,000 years ago--written to by a group of apostles, the last one dying before the first century was over. With your logic none of it would be applicable to us today.

Where do you get that from?

Is that the same logic as Luke uses in John 3:16 when world only means the world of the elect or the world at Christ's time whichever fits best. But it can't mean the world of every age, the entire world that Christ died for because it would go against his theology.

Here again is the verse:

Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. (Acts 15:18)
(ISV) God, who knows everyone's heart, showed them he approved by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us. (Acts 15:8)
--God, literally, knows everyone's heart. He is omniscient.

But back to verse 18. Here is what Barnes says on the verse:

Your view is without merit; unsupported by Scripture. You haven't supported it with Scripture.

I posted more than one verse. I posted many. And even in the one I posted commentaries agree with me that the omniscience of God is defended.

 

Calvinism has nothing to do with this thread. This thread is about the attributes of God.

Timelessness has much to do with this subject for God is an eternal being with eternal knowledge which cannot be limited. If it could then he would not be God. He would be less than God. I wish you could see that.
God is:
omnipresent
omnipotent
omniscient
eternal
immutable.

These are just a few of the attributes of God. And these attributes cannot be limited. What if we were to limit the other attributes as you limit his omniscience. Could God only operate at 50% power? Maybe the earth would fall out of its orbit?? Could God be only half present--only able to answer half the people's prayers because he can't hear the people on the other half of the world. Which half of eternity does God live in? Is God moody? He doesn't change. But if he is not immutable how can I appeal to his sense of justice? What kind of God do you serve once you start tampering with his attributes? A half-loving God? A half-merciful God? etc.
Words have meanings. They have meanings for a reason. There is a reason that omniscience means all-knowing without any qualification. God is infinite, timeless, eternal, as are all his attributes.

Again, we serve a timeless God. He is eternal and his attributes are eternal.

I never made that claim. Quote me if I did.

So if the world is all the world, then omniscience is all knowing. Neither word needs to be limited. Why leave one unlimited and not the other.

Okay. You have made your point about Acts 15:18. You don't like the translation. That is no problem to me. Like I said I gave you many other verses. Let's take a look at a couple of others instead:

The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good. (Proverbs 15:3)

For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars. (2 Chronicles 16:9)
--Both of these verses declare the omnipotence of God. The eyes of the Lord are in every place. It clearly means that not only is he everywhere but knows all things. The idea is that he both sees all and knows all.
--The second verse expresses it even stronger. His eyes run to and fro throughout the whole earth. They are everywhere and know all things. You cannot escape from God or from his knowledge.

You never answered me: What does "bury the hatchet" mean?

It was a logical conclusion to the entire story. The story began by saying that God "tested" Abraham. God knew the outcome beforehand. It was as if he was telling Abraham that he passed the test. It was for Abraham's sake that he was saying this.

Already asked and answered if you had read my posts.
Jesus could have called 12,000 angels (his omnipotence) had he decided not to go through with the cross. But he didn't. He decided not to use his omnipotence at that time.
When he was on earth he lived as a man. He decided not to use his omniscience at times as well. That was one of those times. He decided not to know the time of his coming, as a man on earth. He limited himself deciding not to use many of his divine attributes. Otherwise he would not have suffered as he did on the cross.

I just showed you how they don't support your position.

I think according to how the Scripture speaks.