My Position on the Fourth Commandment

[ituttut]

You cannot count nor can you read English! "TODAY" Luke fixes as "the first day of the week" and says it "IS THE THIRD DAY" - the day of the resurrection - NOT SATURDAY but SUNDAY! Saturday then IS the second day since the crucifixion not the day of the resurrection. Friday IS the first day since the crucifixion which demands THURSDAY not Wednesday is the day of the crucifixion.

Can't make it much clearer to anyone who has the ability to count and read! You reject plain English because you have a theory based upon presuppositions that you cannot prove.

It's not that I don't know when I'm being insulted, but hard for me to believe one of your stature, and standing on the Board as a Christian could allow such to come from your mouth.

Surely you know what you say is an untruth for I gave you a dictionary meaning of the world since. I know you can read, and I'll not insult you with when we Read, and are to try and comprehend what we are reading; just saying you refuse to entertain truth that has been shown to you.

You wrote words in your previous post to me, showing to all what I said was true. Do you now say you did not mean what you said? That does happen some time, and all we have to do is admit it, claim out of context, Linguistics Foreign, or revert to name-calling.

I proved the 72 houses in the heart of the earth, and His coming forth on the first day of the next week. You do not accept that, even though you cannot come close to proving a Thursday crucifixion.

The women that day of Nisan 18 arrived as the Sun was beginning to come up, and they saw Him not; neither did they see the guards. The women were not there when the stone was rolled away. I would say He was reviving, and praying to His Father, and then Mary sees Him. She is then able to see, and talk to Him, but not touch Him (John 20:17).

I have given you proof you've never seen laid out before, and you can't disprove, except with your misunderstanding of what the word SINCE can mean. Why do you pit Luke against what Jesus said? I have disproved your theory of Thursday. Can you offer a 72-hour accounting by time and day to make it agree with scripture? I have done so Wednesday, and will appreciate if you can do the same to prove the Thursday crucifixion.

 

[Dr. Walter]

It's not that I don't know when I'm being insulted, but hard for me to believe one of your stature, and standing on the Board as a Christian could allow such to come from your mouth.

Surely you know what you say is an untruth for I gave you a dictionary meaning of the world since. I know you can read, and I'll not insult you with when we Read, and are to try and comprehend what we are reading; just saying you refuse to entertain truth that has been shown to you.

You wrote words in your previous post to me, showing to all what I said was true. Do you now say you did not mean what you said? That does happen some time, and all we have to do is admit it, claim out of context, Linguistics Foreign, or revert to name-calling.

I proved the 72 houses in the heart of the earth, and His coming forth on the first day of the next week. You do not accept that, even though you cannot come close to proving a Thursday crucifixion.

The women that day of Nisan 18 arrived as the Sun was beginning to come up, and they saw Him not; neither did they see the guards. The women were not there when the stone was rolled away. I would say He was reviving, and praying to His Father, and then Mary sees Him. She is then able to see, and talk to Him, but not touch Him (John 20:17).

I have given you proof you've never seen laid out before, and you can't disprove, except with your misunderstanding of what the word SINCE can mean. Why do you pit Luke against what Jesus said? I have disproved your theory of Thursday. Can you offer a 72-hour accounting by time and day to make it agree with scripture? I have done so Wednesday, and will appreciate if you can do the same to prove the Thursday crucifixion.

You have not proved there must be exactly 72 hours. There is no text in scripture that says Christ must be in the grave for 72 hours. There is no text in scripture that states Christ must be in the grave three FULL days and three FULL nights. The fact that Christ was placed in the grave on the same day he was crucified BEFORE the next day began demonstrates he was in the grave for a PARTIAL day.

The term "since" or "away from" does not prove your position but rather proves mine. It proves Luke 24:21 did not begin WITH the crucifixion day and therefore Sunday "IS" the "third day."

I must admit that I have gotten your posts confused with Gerard's posts. He believes in a Thursday crucifixion with a resurrection on Saturday while you believe in a Wednesday crucifixion with a resurrection on Sunday. It is easy to get confused when dealing with two people at the same time who are arguing two different things.

 

[Dr. Walter]

It's not that I don't know when I'm being insulted, but hard for me to believe one of your stature, and standing on the Board as a Christian could allow such to come from your mouth.

My apologies for insulting you. However, I have no such "statue, and standing on the Board." I am just a peon like the rest. It is the moderator's that have that "statue and standing on the board."

I don't have a problem with those who hold to a Wednesday crucifixion. It is a better position than those who hold to a Friday crucifixion. However, I don't believe the scripture demands three FULL days and three FULL nights or 72 hours. It seems to me that Thursday evening (our Wednesday evening) the passover supper was partaken of by Christ and the night of judgements occurred. Thursday prior to 6 pm He was buried thus He was in the grave on Nisan 14th the day of his crucifixion. Friday was the "high Sabbath" or first day of unleavened bread - the 15th of the month. He rested in the grave on Saturday the 16th. He arose from the grave on Sunday the 17th the day after the Sabbath when the sheaf offering was presented in the temple or "the firstfruits of the resurrection."

Luke 24:21 confirms this counting as accurate. The Greek prepositon "apo" or "away from" demands that Luke is not including the crucifixion day in his count but is counting the days "from" that day - Friday, Saturday and including Sunday as "TODAY IS the third day." Therefore the crucifixion day would not be the "third day since"/from (Sunday) nor the second day since/from (Saturday) or the first day since/from (Friday) but the day preceding the first day since/from which is Thursday.

He partook of the Supper on the evening of the 14th (our Wednesday evening) and was crucified on the day of the 14th (our Thursday). He rested in the grave part of the 14th before 6 pm (Our thursday evening) and stayed in the grave on the High Sabbath or the first day of unleavened bread the 15th (Friday) and continued to rest in the grave on the regular Sabbath (Saturday) while arising from the grave between 3am to 6am on Sunday, the day on the "morrow after the sabbath" when the sheaf or "the firstfruits" of the harvest was offered.

Hence, he was in the grave three days and three nights - two full 48 hour days and one partial day and one partial evening but a total of three different days and three different nights.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

It's not that I don't know when I'm being insulted, but hard for me to believe one of your stature, and standing on the Board as a Christian could allow such to come from your mouth.

Surely you know what you say is an untruth for I gave you a dictionary meaning of the world since. I know you can read, and I'll not insult you with when we Read, and are to try and comprehend what we are reading; just saying you refuse to entertain truth that has been shown to you.

You wrote words in your previous post to me, showing to all what I said was true. Do you now say you did not mean what you said? That does happen some time, and all we have to do is admit it, claim out of context, Linguistics Foreign, or revert to name-calling.

I proved the 72 houses in the heart of the earth, and His coming forth on the first day of the next week. You do not accept that, even though you cannot come close to proving a Thursday crucifixion.

The women that day of Nisan 18 arrived as the Sun was beginning to come up, and they saw Him not; neither did they see the guards. The women were not there when the stone was rolled away. I would say He was reviving, and praying to His Father, and then Mary sees Him. She is then able to see, and talk to Him, but not touch Him (John 20:17).

I have given you proof you've never seen laid out before, and you can't disprove, except with your misunderstanding of what the word SINCE can mean. Why do you pit Luke against what Jesus said? I have disproved your theory of Thursday. Can you offer a 72-hour accounting by time and day to make it agree with scripture? I have done so Wednesday, and will appreciate if you can do the same to prove the Thursday crucifixion.

GE:

Dear Ituttut, I have my differences with Dr Walter, and I too often cannot control myself so cross I get with him; but chum, you are the wrong one in this conversation. I mean, the confused one. Gracious, you are far worse than Dr Walter!

I don't know why you did not join the conversation in the "Three days thick darkness" thread I invited you to.

I don't want to go on on this thread because it is soon to be closed because of its length, and I also don't want to go on on this thread because it contains too many subjects and is getting too repetitive of the same things.

So come over to "Three days thick darkness" and perhaps you will find the light there or The Light might find you, there....

Cordially
GE

 

[ituttut]

You have not proved there must be exactly 72 hours. There is no text in scripture that says Christ must be in the grave for 72 hours. There is no text in scripture that states Christ must be in the grave three FULL days and three FULL nights. The fact that Christ was placed in the grave on the same day he was crucified BEFORE the next day began demonstrates he was in the grave for a PARTIAL day.

The term "since" or "away from" does not prove your position but rather proves mine. It proves Luke 24:21 did not begin WITH the crucifixion day and therefore Sunday "IS" the "third day."

I must admit that I have gotten your posts confused with Gerard's posts. He believes in a Thursday crucifixion with a resurrection on Saturday while you believe in a Wednesday crucifixion with a resurrection on Sunday. It is easy to get confused when dealing with two people at the same time who are arguing two different things.

To answer your last first, I totally agree, it is difficult to try and keep up with the Bible is telling us, and then try to answer not just one person, but two, and sometimes more. But I believe this helps us to keep our Sword going forward, while at the same time trying hold up the shield.

The subject itself is confusing to us, and believe for a purpose. I do believe God wishes us to Study His Word in order for us to try and understand Him. I believe the Holy Spirit helps, knowing what is in our hearts as we search His Word. You know as well as I that such as scriptures involved, has puzzled all humanity, trying to make what seems contradictory, not to contradict. I also believe the Holy Sprit had the writers to say exactly what He wanted each to say, in their own words, at the time appointed.

Any way, I view our conversation as friendly, showing what God has allowed us to see.

The first thing we see in the very beginning, God divides. For my pt I see a full three complete days (Day times, and then Night times, each determined by God to be 12 hours for each by the setting of the Sun, and then its arising, or 72 hours fulfilled, as days blend together. I agree with what you say, viz. "demonstrates he was in the grave for a PARTIAL day." You may not yet see what I am saying. I do not believe as so very many, that a partial day, in its fullness, falls short of 24 hours. They have convinced people that a partial should mean the day falls short of being 24 hours. They must shorten God's days in order to fit what they believe. I do not believe what they believe, as I had rather believe what God says.

I'll reiterate. I do not believe when I die, my soul, and spirit remains in my Body until I am buried, cremated, eaten by animals, or just waste away. I believe at death I will immediately be in heaven (without a body). With this thinking I know Jesus was in Paradise, and He welcomed the thief on the Cross on that very day. We know Jesus died at 3pm, and not told the time the thief died, but Jesus says it is the same day.


What about His Body? Did it go with HIM? It was put into the earth on that very same Day, about three (3) hours later, just as the Sun was going down, and Seventhly two (72) hours later, just as the Sun was setting, the Stone was rolled away. The guards were still there, and evidently became unconsciouss. The women were not there at the beginning of this Sunday, which began at 6pm.

Did Jonah, after being in the belly of the fish immediately jump up? We know he didn't, and we know Jesus did not either. They both talked to God first, and then went forward. It took a little time, but He was no longer sealed in, when that 72 hour period had passed. He was out of the Tomb sometime before the women arrived.

 

[ituttut]

My apologies for insulting you.

apology accepted.

I don't have a problem with those who hold to a Wednesday crucifixion. It is a better position than those who hold to a Friday crucifixion. However, I don't believe the scripture demands three FULL days and three FULL nights or 72 hours. It seems to me that Thursday evening (our Wednesday evening) the passover supper was partaken of by Christ and the night of judgements occurred. Thursday prior to 6 pm He was buried thus He was in the grave on Nisan 14th the day of his crucifixion. Friday was the "high Sabbath" or first day of unleavened bread - the 15th of the month. He rested in the grave on Saturday the 16th. He arose from the grave on Sunday the 17th the day after the Sabbath when the sheaf offering was presented in the temple or "the firstfruits of the resurrection."

Luke 24:21 confirms this counting as accurate. The Greek prepositon "apo" or "away from" demands that Luke is not including the crucifixion day in his count but is counting the days "from" that day - Friday, Saturday and including Sunday as "TODAY IS the third day." Therefore the crucifixion day would not be the "third day since"/from (Sunday) nor the second day since/from (Saturday) or the first day since/from (Friday) but the day preceding the first day since/from which is Thursday.

He partook of the Supper on the evening of the 14th (our Wednesday evening) and was crucified on the day of the 14th (our Thursday). He rested in the grave part of the 14th before 6 pm (Our thursday evening) and stayed in the grave on the High Sabbath or the first day of unleavened bread the 15th (Friday) and continued to rest in the grave on the regular Sabbath (Saturday) while arising from the grave between 3am to 6am on Sunday, the day on the "morrow after the sabbath" when the sheaf or "the firstfruits" of the harvest was offered.

Hence, he was in the grave three days and three nights - two full 48 hour days and one partial day and one partial evening but a total of three different days and three different nights.

But to use your Thursday will dispute scripture, for the women did not put their spices on in the next day, which was Thursday, Nisan 15, a High Holy Sabbath Day; and just as they wished to do, could not be done on a High Sabbath Day. And neither could they offer Him their ointments on Friday because of the Guards, and the Tomb was sealed. The same applies to Saturday the Sabbath, and also they could not do it on a Sabbath, regardless of other circumstances.


Sunday then is the only day that was able to offer their preparations. They never got to do it. Doesn't it make sense if as you say Jesus was put into the grave at 6pm, on Thursday, the beginning of their day, which actually begins just as the Sun is setting? Wouldn't your reasoning then tell you He must have been crucified on Wednesday? tWould this be correct? Doesn't scripture say it was 3pm when He expired? Thursday is impossible, as are all other days with the exception of Wednesday.


Three Days Since? It was three (3) days since it happened. Doesn't this mean it happened yesterday, and it is now 3 days since it happened?

 

[ituttut]

GE:

Dear Ituttut, I have my differences with Dr Walter, and I too often cannot control myself so cross I get with him; but chum, you are the wrong one in this conversation. I mean, the confused one. Gracious, you are far worse than Dr Walter!

I don't know why you did not join the conversation in the "Three days thick darkness" thread I invited you to.

I don't want to go on on this thread because it is soon to be closed because of its length, and I also don't want to go on on this thread because it contains too many subjects and is getting too repetitive of the same things.

So come over to "Three days thick darkness" and perhaps you will find the light there or The Light might find you, there....

Cordially
GE

Dear GE thanks for the invite, but I came to this party, and see you decided to leave. I kinda like it here. Perhaps later.

Agree this thread could be shut down at any time, and if so, would be an incentive to see you there, with your humor. Have you seen the number of posts on "What's For Dinner?

I am not on the Board as often, and continuously as some, else I would accept your invitation. If I don't make it to your party, then perhaps we may run into each other somewhere else.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Dear GE thanks for the invite, but I came to this party, and see you decided to leave. I kinda like it here. Perhaps later.

Agree this thread could be shut down at any time, and if so, would be an incentive to see you there, with your humor. Have you seen the number of posts on "What's For Dinner?

I am not on the Board as often, and continuously as some, else I would accept your invitation. If I don't make it to your party, then perhaps we may run into each other somewhere else.

Quarter hour left. All right, midnight my glass shoes may turn into ghost pumpkins, so I'll have to dance dat die stof so staan. See you tomorrow or the day after God willing...

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Concentrating on IT’s stuff here re-arranged to statements and replies, I answer as follows…

First, keep in mind, my answer excludes conversation after as far as it got up to here recorded.
Also, I answer relevant ‘issues’; no irrelevancies like, “Israel is made Holy by religious rites.”

IT:
“Jesus arose from the dead on the Sabbath day, the seventh day of the week. This agrees with all scripture. In this knowledge we then can determine without question the day He was laid in the Tomb. A Wednesday; Right?”

GE:

I’ll call this delivery,

'Four days, even Five days…. Yea, SIX ‘days’'

“Jesus arose from the dead on the Sabbath day”, you say.

Yes; that is what I also believe. But I must assume you also meant, “on the third day”— “THE, third day according to the SCRIPTURES” and its Prophecy, so that Jesus arose from the dead “on the third day” that in the year He died Our Sacrifice, was the Sabbath Day— “the seventh day of the week”.

I assume you mean “This agrees with all scripture”?
But then, take what you – not I – say, and tell me why I get 5 yes FIVE days, nothing near like “the third day according to the Scriptures”!

How?

Well, you say, “the day He was laid in the Tomb. A Wednesday…”. Remember, as you, say! Then, if in the Bible, ‘days’, begin with evening-after-sunset, He was crucified and died on the Tuesday BEFORE.

‘Days’ – in the Bible – begin with evening-after-sunset, hey! That’s why – check Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 John 19:31,38,40 Luke 23:50 – these Scriptures say, “It …” – on the NEW day AFTER He had died – “It ALREADY (‘ehdeh’) having been EVENING(‘opsias’) BECAUSE (‘epei’), The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath having begun” (‘ehdeh opsias genomenehs epei ehn Paraskeueh’, Ingressive Aorist), Joseph went to Pilate to ask if he could have Jesus’ body that was STILL on the cross: “IN ORDER TO according to the ethics / law of the Jews” = Law of the Scriptures and Prophecy, “bury (Him).”

So – no matter what kind of ‘days’ – Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, “the Sabbath day” = 5 = FIVE ‘days’! Whatever might remain of your theory, this single fact it demands FIVE days of the earth’s rotation, nullifies it COMPLETELY.

Even – according to you in your own words again – from, “The sacrifice is … (sacrificed) on Nisan 14” and is “sealed In on The Same Day”, FOUR days are involved until Jesus rose up again on “the Sabbath day”, because He would have risen on a FOURTH day, not, “on the third day” as the Scriptures and the Prophesies and the Law have it.

So, says IT, “The sacrifice is made ready on Nisan 14 … Sealed In on The Same Day.” – “Wednesday”; “arose on the Sabbath day” = 2 days. Plus – so, says IT –, Thursday and Friday in between “Wednesday” and “Sabbath”, FOUR days are involved which requires that Jesus on the fourth of those days rose again, and no longer as the Scriptures say, “on the THIRD day”— no matter what ‘days’ whether just ordinary days one after the other or ‘holy days’ set apart for and as some specific “three days” “according to the Scriptures” of Jesus’ FINAL SUFFERING. It makes no difference, it stays four days at least.

So according to Ituttut,

A: If sacrificed as well as buried on the “Same Day” and “arose on the Sabbath day” = 4 FOUR days;
B: If according to Ituttut, Jesus “arose on the Sabbath day” and was “laid in the Tomb. A Wednesday…” but according to the Scriptures, was “laid in the Tomb” on the day AFTER “The sacrifice is made ready on Nisan 14”, = 5 FIVE days and not at all, “on the third day according to the Scriptures”.

And therefore, sure, “In this knowledge we then can determine without question the day He was laid in the Tomb”, “A Wednesday”? Wrong simply because of the wrong number of days implicated!

IT:

“Dear friend, if I'm not mistaken you said He arose from the dead on the Sabbath. Three days in the ground, just as He said, and He tells us in the beginning how many hours are in a Day (day/night).He says 72 hours. What does man say?”

Answer ….

Yes, I do maintain Christ “arose from the dead on the Sabbath”. But that not in the least demands “Three days in the ground” or, “72 hours”.
“What does man say?” That’s what man says— Ituttut. Not “He”, Jesus. “72 hours”, is NOT, what “He says”; “Three days in the ground…, is NOT, “just as He said”.

Nothing more needs be said while these things are NOT what Jesus said. You may just as well be ignored flat, Ituttut, your assertions being so unrealistic they are as good as never being said.

So what does it matter “how many hours are in a Day (day/night)”? In any case, a ‘day’ in the Bible, Old and New Testaments, isn’t “a Day (day/night)”; it’s a ‘day: night / day’.

Ituttut:

“Jesus was also specifically referring to the ground under our feet. Strong's Greek "ge" can mean "Ground", and Heart (Greek "kardia") broken heart.”

Answer ….

No, Jesus was NOT “specifically referring to the ground under our feet”; He was specifically referring to “the PROPHET, Jonas”. Jesus meant the Scriptures— Prophesy; and the fulfilment of the Scriptures and Prophesy by Himself through his own experience. Not with one word was Jesus “specifically referring to the ground under our feet”, not even with having used the word “earth”, because He meant “earth”, “AS the prophet Jonas” who in the belly of the fish was not near under the ground in any sense than figurative as were he “under the foundations of the mountains under the sea”– which literally was no deeper under them than in the waters of the sea above them. There is no way “specifically” one can take Jesus’ words literally as “the ground under our feet”, except for the real historic PROGRESSION-IN-TIME of Jesus’ last and earthly suffering according to God’s will and prophetic Word of _THE_ “three days”, “according to the Scriptures”.

Now about your claim, “Strong's Greek "ge" can mean "Ground", and Heart (Greek "kardia") broken heart.””

Sorry. Denied!

As I have before answered you on “the verse … Matthew 12:40”, “in the HEART of the earth” is figurative language … in ANY language. Jesus was NOT “referring to the ground under our feet” whatsoever.

About, “Jesus was laid in the heart of the Rock, on the Ground in the Tomb. A stone sealed Him in. Jonah was sealed inside the special New Fish.”

Maybe you will win a prose competition with this, but no exegetical skills.

Re: IT,
“Three days, and three nights Johan's body was sealed inside the Fish, and three days, and three nights Jesus' body was sealed in the Tomb, while He lay on the ground. I am not saying this cannot have a double meaning, for it does, but to not contradict all other scripture we must make this verse in Matthew mean what it says.”

You are saying your own thing; not what “this verse in Matthew” means or, says. You are making this verse say what Ituttut means and says, single meaning or “double meaning”, giving it no meaning at all only “to contradict all other scripture”.

Take “sealed inside … three days, and three nights Jesus' body … in the Tomb, while He lay on the ground.”
It’s absurd;
what about the time He was judged and crucified and unburied? Altogether it would need SIX days by now!

Yes, “THREE DAYS” suffered Jesus dying the death of death, was He betrayed, convicted, condemned, abused and judged and abused and hanged and died; and was He deserted, and taken from the cross and away and his body treated and prepared and processed and brought to the tomb and bewailed and “laid in the place” and closed indoor and “sealed inside” “the next day after” Matthew 27:62 and YET ANOTHER “… three days, and three nights Jesus' body (was) in the Tomb, while He lay on the ground”!— SIX – 6 – FULL DAYS!

Where are you going to end up, Itututt? Eternity?

So, again, your arguments amounting to nothing, they cannot have bearing at all, on the question about on which days of the week Jesus died and rose again.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Re:
Ituttut:
“He arose on the Third (3rd) day, which was the seventh day of the week, on the regular Sabbath. How do we know this? If we keep reading in Matthew 27, we come to verse 61, and 62. "And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.
62. Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate". The Next day is Nisan 15, the God appointed High Sabbath Day. Nisan 15, every year follows Nisan 14. We are told He was slaughtered on Nissan 14, which can only be on a Wednesday.”

Answer:

“If we keep reading in Matthew 27 … we know this … He arose on the Third (3rd) day, which was the seventh day of the week, on the regular Sabbath.”

Reading Matthew 27 does make it clear that the Sabbath was “the third day”, sure; but not in the way you are looking at it.

Verse 62 stating that it was “the day after the preparations” or “the day after the Preparation Day”, directly without any day in between, connects the day upon which the Jews asked Pilate to have the grave sealed, with “the regular Sabbath”, “… which is after …” it, “the day after the Preparation Day”.

You, Ituttut, are alleging there incurred one day between “The Preparation” referred to in verse 62, and “the regular Sabbath” … absolutely without reason.

In fact, “the next day which was after The Preparation Day” before it (immediately before it), was “the regular Sabbath” after this “Preparation Day” upon which John also, in 19:42, wrote, “They laid the body of Jesus BY THE TIME / BECAUSE OF the Jews’ preparations”— “preparations” naturally and regularly done for the pending, “regular Sabbath”— those preparations and that Preparation Day that were the exact same about which Luke wrote, “the women returned home and prepared, (also) spices and ointments and (afterwards) began to rest the Sabbath-according-to-the-(Fourth)-Commandment”— that exact same “Preparation Day …” which with the “… evening…” BEFORE (‘Thursday night / Friday day’) “… ALREADY had had begun it having been the Fore-Sabbath” the unique “Fore-Sabbath” namely, of the ‘weekly’ “Sabbath”.

Which “Sabbath” again, Mark in 16:1 wrote, that “after the Sabbath had gone through”, the three women, “bought spices”, obviously for Salome who had not been present at the Burial the Preparation Day before, also to prepare, “So that, when they would go, they (all three of them) might / could anoint Him.”

If there is one thing all four Gospels are clear and unanimous about, it is the daily sequence of events of the Last Week and especially the “three days” of Jesus’ earthly life’s sufferings “according to the Scriptures”.

Therefore, reading Matthew 27 does make it clear “He arose on the Third (3rd) day, which was the seventh day of the week,” but not in the way you are looking at it, because for you, “Nisan 14” on which “we are told He was slaughtered … can only be on a Wednesday” for absolutely NO APPARENT REASON! And because for you, TWO, non-existing days, (Nisan 15 AND ‘Nisan 16’), occurred in between this “Nisan 14 … Wednesday” and “the regular Sabbath”.

You can date them what you want, it stays an untrue, INEXPLICABLE, mess!

 

[DHK]

You can date them what you want, it stays an untrue, INEXPLICABLE, mess!

Does it?
Every gospel attests to Christ arising on the first day of the week; our Sunday.

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. (Matthew 28:1)
He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. (Matthew 28:6)

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. (Mark 16:1-2)

Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. (Mark 16:9)

Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. (Luke 24:1)
And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, (Luke 24:5-6)

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. (John 20:1)
And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. (John 20:14)

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Now, on a more positive note, Ituttut….

Reading Matthew 27, does make it clear that the Sabbath was “the third day”, for another two reasons than the fact that it was “the next day which is after The Preparation” the day of Burial, the fifteenth day of the First Month.

One,

That Sabbath Day inferred in Matthew 26:62 is specifically – “bluntly” – referred to by the Jews (63b) as “the third day” of which Jesus had “said … after three days I will rise again.” (Mark 8:31)

Jesus also said, “the third day, I FINISH”; and “God (through and in Jesus Christ) the Seventh Day FINISHED.”

“The third day” in the Passover of Yahweh equals “Seventh Day Sabbath of Yahweh Elohim”, because “God thus concerning the Seventh Day spake, And God the Seventh Day from all his works, RESTED”. “God rested” “by the exceeding greatness of his Power having raised Christ from the dead”; “If Jesus had given them rest … there therefore remains a Sabbath-rest-/keeping for God’s People, He having entered into His Own Rest as God in his own”, “In the Sabbath’s Day”.

“The third day” and “the Sabbath Day” in the Life and Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ perfectly agree— in Fulfilment and Prophesy; in Content and Essence; in event and circumstance; and even in time and sequence of days both of date and of week.

Two,

Read Matthew 27 from verse 62 to chapter 28:4 without the chapter brake between 27:66 and 28:1. Then the Jews and the Romans “on the next morning which is after the Preparation” of the Sabbath Day, make sure to keep Jesus’ grave shut, thinking they could prevent Him to rise from the grave and dead again … “BUT FULLNESS OF THE SABBATH IN THE VERY MID-INCLINING DAYLIGHT towards the First Day of the week : SUDDENLY THERE WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE …” and Jesus ROSE from the dead and grave DESPITE the Jew’s best efforts to keep Him in the grip of hell!

“Thou that destroyest the temple and buildest it in three days, save thyself!”
Jesus answered, having raised from the dead “the third day according to the Scriptures”, “The Sabbath”— “The Sabbath of : THE LORD thy GOD”, “(it) being-in-the-epi-centre-of-Sabbath’s-fullness-and-fulfilment”. Matthew’s words.

“The Sabbath” in and of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, is “The Sabbath” and “the third day” in its “God-given and therefore imperative eschatological fullness and wholeness”… (Lohmeyer’ words.) … here, quote : “(Jesus Christ) whom God RAISED-UP-HAVING-LOOSED-THE-PAINS-OF-DEATH” – which is the PERFECT EQUIVALENT OF THE OLD TESTAMENT’S, “… and God the Seventh Day from all his works : RESTED!”

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Does it?
Every gospel attests to Christ arising on the first day of the week; our Sunday.

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. (Matthew 28:1)
He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. (Matthew 28:6)

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. (Mark 16:1-2)

Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. (Mark 16:9)

Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. (Luke 24:1)
And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, (Luke 24:5-6)

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. (John 20:1)
And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. (John 20:14)

GE:
This must be as short as possible; time is a factor ....

First, we - you and I - before have discussed this 'issue'.

Now what could I answer different than what I answered you last time?

I must to be honest deny your every claim; I have no option - and for one reason only - that the Scriptures never say that Christ rose on the First day of the week.

You have yourself quoted every possible pertinent text. NOT ONE says what you claim it says, frankly.

Matthew 28:1
"In the end _OF THE SABBATH- / SABBATH'S(-time)_, as it began to dawn ("daylight in mid-declining") _TOWARD_ / _against_ / _before_ the First Day of the week, _SET OUT_ Mary Magdalene and the other Mary _TO_ (go) see the sepulchre WHEN THERE SUDDENLY WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE."

He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. (Matthew 28:6)

SURE!


Mark 16:1-2,
"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun."

SURE!
So? When was the resurrection? Where does it mention the Resurrection?


Mark 16:9,
"Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."

See what I did?
Because "AS-THE-RISEN-ONE, He - Jesus - _APPEARED_ to Mary ...". NOT 'rose to Mary', hihihi.


Luke 24:1,5,6,
"Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

First VISIT just after midnight “deep(est) morning-of-night”.

And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they (the angles) said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee." ...

"The third day I FINISH"; "God the Seventh Day RESTED." "I have finished the work which Thou gavest Me to do." "God the Seventh Day FINISHED."


John 20:1,
"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was YET EARLY DARKNESS, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre and runneth and cometh to Simon Peter...

Clever change to God's Word, but not clever enough!

In any case, NO Resurrection occurring, just FIRST SIGHT of moved away door-stone - OUTSIDE grave.


John 20:14,
"And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus."

Yes, "Mary HAD HAD STOOD AFTER without at the sepulchre", verse 11, after a visit NOT MENTIONED IN JOHN, but in Mark 16:2-8, when one would expect the gardener to begin work, sunrise, she saw Jesus approaching at a distance AWAY FROM THE TOMB. NO Resurrection!

So yes,
APPEARANCE described, "FIRST, to Mary Magdalene", according to Mark16:9

Where's the Resurrection?

ONLY in Matthew 28:1-4, "Explained / Described / Informed the angel the women, telling them .... 28:5A!!!!!!!!! on Sunday morning after sunrise because after first appearance to Mary "early (sunrise) on the First Day of the week.

 

[DHK]

Where's the Resurrection?

It is on the first day of the week, which for some strange reason you seem to deny.

Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons. (Mark 16:9)

It is as plain as the nose on your face.
He rose early on the first day of the week. You can't get any clearer than that.

 

[Dr. Walter]

There are three undeninable facts that expose the fallicious interpetation of Gerard:

1. Luke uses the preposition "apo" instead of "ek" in Luke 24:21. Gerards interpretation depends upon the use of "ek" in order to INCLUDE the day of crucifixion in his calculation of the "third" day "since". However, Luke uses the preposition "apo" which EXCLUDES the crucfixion day in his calculation of the "third" day "since" (apo) the crucifixion.

Luke 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since [Greek apo] these things were done.


2. The women did not come to the tomb on two separate occassions after the crucifixion as Friday would be a high sabbath or the first sabbath of the days of unleavened bread (15th of Nisan - See Leviticus 23

Lev. 23: 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.



while Saturday would be the regular sabbath (Nisan 16th) and it was the day after the regular Sabbath they would offer the sheaf or symbol of first fruits (Nisan 17) or the day of resurrection as Christ was the "firstfruits" of the resurrection:


Lev. 23:15 ¶ And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.


1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.



thus making the first day of the week the only time they could have come and all accounts have them coming in the morning early on the first day of the week.

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. (Mark 16:1-2)

Mt. 28:1 ¶ In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Luke 24:1 ¶ Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.


These two texts have the same women coming at the same time. The Greek term "dawn" means when the light is growing brighter or as Matthew says "at the rising of the sun" and not on Sunday EVENING Jewish time or Satuday EVENING Roman Time as Gerard interprets it but "very early IN THE MORNING the first day of the week." Mark and Matthew are talking about the SAME TIME on the SAME DAY about the SAME women and therefore Matthew interprets the languague of Mark.

Mary Magdalene did not come Saturday evening or on Sunday Evening Jewish time but they left home while it was still dark "VERY EARLY IN THE MORNING" and arrived "AT THE RISING OF THE SUN" and on "THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK". Other women came with both Mary's. All the women fled quickly from OUT OF the tomb, but Mary stayed behind in the garden where Christ appeared unto her first and then Christ appeared to the othe women who were fleeing back to the city and instructed both Mary Magnalene and the other women to go tell the disciples. Mary left the garden and went directly to the disciples and told them as Christ instructed her:

Mk. 16:8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.9 ¶ Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.


3. Christ rose just before the women arrived at the tomb at the fourth watch of the night (Greek proii) BECAUSE:


a. The guards who witnessed the rock being moved fled to the city WHEN or at the SAME TIME when THE WOMEN WERE COMING TO THE TOMB "very early" on the first day of the week:

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. (Mark 16:1-2)

Mt 28:11 Now when they [the women] were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.

Hence, the resurrection of Christ occurred just MINUTES before the women passed the guards on their way to the city and the women were coming "very early" while dark on Sunday morning so that they were arriving at the tomb just as the LIGHT OF THE SUN WAS GROWING BRIGHTER or "at the rising of the sun. This would be the FOURTH WATCH of the guards which even Christ acknolwedged the FOURTH WATCH by the technical term "proii":

Mk. 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even,[6pm-9pm] or at midnight, [9pm-12am] or at the cockcrowing,[12am-3am] or in the morning (Gr. proii)[3am-6am]:

Now when he had risen early [Gr. proii] on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons. (Mark 16:9)



b. Mark explicitly states that Jesus arose "very early on the first day of the week" the very same day Mary Magnalene came with the other women to the tomb

Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons. (Mark 16:9)


c. Luke demands that the first day of the week "IS THE THIRD" day "since" (Gr. apo) the crucifixion day of Christ thus using the preposition "apo" to EXCLUDE the crucifixion day in his calculation of Sunday BEING the third day rather then using the Greek preposition "ek" which would have included the crucifixion day in his calculation. Thus Sunday according to Luke's calculation and language is "THIRD DAY" not the fourth day as Gerard wishes to count it.

Luke 24:1 ¶ Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

Luke 24:13 ¶ And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.

Luke 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since [Greek apo] these things were done.
22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;

Luke 24:22 demonstrates that "today IS the third day" and "today" is the day the women "were EARLY at the seplchre" and thus "THE SAME DAY" in verse 13 which is "upon the first day of the week" in verse 1 - Case closed.


CONCLUSION: Mary Magdalene and Mary came when it was YET DARK arriving at the tomb "at sunrise" and "VERY EARLY IN THE MORNING" on the first day of the week AFTER passing the guards who were on the FOURTH WATCH ("proii") fleeing to the city because they witnessed the rock being rolled away from the tomb on SUNDAY MORNING not SATURDAY NIGHT (Roman time) or SUNDAY EVENING (Jewish time). Thus Jesus arose SUNDAY MORNING and "very early" (Gr. proii) JUST BEFORE SUNRISE when the women arrived at the tome. Sunday or the first day of the week "IS THE THIRD DAY" since (apo) or away from and thus excluding the day of crucifixion necessarily making the resurrection SUNDAY MORNING just before sunrise.

Gerard has to make Matthew 28:1 contradict Mark 16:1-2 and Luke 24:1 when both Mark and Matthew speak about the SAME WOMEN coming at the SAME TIME "at the rising of the sun" or when the sun light was getting brighter.

Gerard has to EXPLAIN AWAY the English translations while my position harmonizes with the English translations of Matthew 28:1;Mk 16:1-2 and Luke 24:1 in regard to the precise time both Mary's came to the tomb on the first day of the week.

Gerard's interpretation contradicts Luke's choice of the greek preposition "apo" in Luke 24:21 while Gerard's interpretation demands Luke use "ek" instead of "apo." EK would INCLUDE the crucifixion day in Luke's counting thus making the first day of the week the FOURTH day while APO would EXCLUDE the crucifixion day thus making Luke say exactly what he does say "today (Sunday) IS the THIRD DAY."

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Does it?
Every gospel attests to Christ arising on the first day of the week; our Sunday.
..............................

GE:

I must to be honest deny your every claim; I have no option - and for one reason only - that the Scriptures never say that Christ rose on the First day of the week. You have yourself quoted every possible pertinent text. NOT ONE says what you claim it says.

Of Course the Resurrection is right through all the Gospels the implied and accepted, and presupposed and conditional fact of truth, but no word about its occurrence as such, where it is said, that “Jesus rose”, exists anywhere in the Gospels. It is ONLY Matthew 28:1-4 where some extrinsic data that surrounded Jesus’ actual resurrection, is provided.

DHK first refers to Matthew; but Matthew should be mentioned last, because “the angel”, AT LAST, “explained to the women” in such a way that they for the first time could understand the angel’s message of Jesus’ resurrection. That explanation of the angel’s is found in verses 1 to 4! No other Gospel “explained” how or when Jesus actually, rose.

But DHK mentions Matthew first, so let’s consider it first….

Matthew 28:1,
"In the end _OF THE SABBATH- / SABBATH'S(-time)_, as it began to dawn ("daylight in mid-declining") _TOWARD_ / _against_ / _before_ the First Day of the week, _SET OUT_ Mary Magdalene and the other Mary _TO_ (go) see the sepulchre WHEN THERE SUDDENLY WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE."

So this “gospel attests to Christ arising on the first day of the week; our Sunday”…???

Never!!!

This gospel attests to Christ arising “Sabbath’s”, yes!
“He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. (Matthew 28:6)”— DHK quoting the angel who BY NOW the morning AFTER the Resurrection,
“ANSWERING = informing = explaining to the women, the angel told them” with detailed information of day, “Sabbath’s”; time, “late, in the mid-afternoon”; and circumstance, “suddenly there was a great earthquake” WHEN Jesus HAD resurrected from the dead the day BEFORE. Verses 1-4.

So now, on Sunday morning, “The angel explaining” is FURTHER “telling the women, He is risen … etc.”, like that He as the Risen One would go to Galilee where the disciples would see Him again “as He had told you” before his death in fact. Meantime Jesus was nearby still, and would meet these women within minutes later in person.

So the angel ‘informed’ these women, shortly after Jesus had “first appeared to Mary Magdalene” on that ‘Sunday’ morning “early” (Mark 16:9), and shortly before He next on that ‘Sunday’ morning would ‘meet’ them, these women, “as they” too, “went to tell the disciples” about the angel’s instructive message, Matthew 28:10.

Mary Magdalene WAS NOT ONE of these women because Jesus had had appeared to her already, “early”, on ‘Sunday’ morning Mark 16:9, about sunrise when a gardener would begin to work, John 20:11-17. “Thus The Risen (Saviour), Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene FIRST, early on the First Day of the week” before anyone else, a token of Jesus’ full acceptance of her, her sins and all. But Mary Magdalene by the time that Jesus “met” the other women on their way to tell the disciples, was with the disciples already, busy telling them that He had appeared to her, 28:18.

The Gospels give SEPARATE, and DIFFERENT, events, Matthew clearly the events accompanying the Resurrection “in the mid-afternoon of the Sabbath Day”, the after-afternoon and the whole following night BEFORE the angel's final explanation or Jesus’ first appearances.

John 20:11-17 / Mark 16:9 and Matthew 28:5-10 pertain to the LAST TWO of FOUR SEPARATE and DIFFERENT, VISITS of women at the tomb during the course of that ‘early Sunday morning’, but only Matthew, also gives the information about the Resurrection “On the Sabbath Day”, BEFORE!

So, while John 20:11-17 / Mark 16:9 and Matthew 28:5-10 pertain to the LAST TWO of FOUR SEPARATE and DIFFERENT, VISITS of women at the tomb during the course of that ‘early Sunday morning’, the EARLIER visits were …
One, …the visit according to Luke 24:1,2 when the women thinking the body was in the sepulchre still, “came with spices prepared” to anoint Him, just after midnight, “deep(est) morning” of night; and they discovered the grave was EMPTY.

Two, …the visit that night’s morning, according to Mark 16:2-8, an ascertaining, “re-viewing” visit, “VERY early (before) sunrising”— which caused that the women “fled from the tomb and told no one anything so afraid were they...”, “…BUT! Mary Magdalene had stayed behind at the sepulchre weeping…” John 20:11f.

Yes, "Mary HAD HAD STOOD AFTER without at the sepulchre", verse 11, after a visit NOT MENTIONED IN JOHN, but in Mark 16:2-8, when one would expect the gardener to begin work, sunrise, when she saw Jesus approaching at a distance AWAY FROM THE TOMB.

NO ACTUAL Resurrection in either of Mark 16:2-8 and John 20 anywhere!

Mark 16:1-2,
"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun."

So? When was the resurrection? Where does it mention the Resurrection?
In any case, verse 1 does not even mention a visit at the grave! How can it “attest to Christ arising on the first day of the week; our Sunday”?!

Mark 16:9,
"Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."

See what I did?
Because "AS-THE-RISEN-ONE, He - Jesus - _APPEARED_ to Mary ...”. NOT 'rose to Mary', hihihi.

Luke 24:1,5,6,
"Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

First VISIT just after midnight “deep(est) morning-of-night”.

And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they (the angles) said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee." ...
"The third day I FINISH"; "God the Seventh Day FINISHED."
"I have finished the work which Thou gavest Me to do." "God the Seventh Day RESTED."

John 20:1,
"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was YET EARLY DARKNESS, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre and runneth and cometh to Simon Peter...

As quoted by DHK, “…early, when it was yet dark... (John 20:1)”; “early, when it was yet dark” against what is in truth written, “being yet / still early-DARKNESS”, ‘proh-i skotias eti ousehs’.

Clever change to God's Word, but not clever enough!

In any case, here is NO Resurrection occurring, just the FIRST SIGHT of the moved away door-stone – OUTSIDE and from a DISTANCE from the grave – as being observed by Mary Magdalene.

This must be the earliest ‘coming’ to the tomb, and Mary Magdalene has to be the ONLY person who undertook it because the news that she brought concerning the observed moved away door stone, SET IN MOTION ALL subsequent events of the rest of that night, first of which was that Peter and John as the direct result of this first sight of the opened grave by Mary Magdalene, FOR THE FIRST TIME received news of it or of the fact that Jesus’ body got buried at all!

DHK continues with “John 20:14”,

"And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus", as saw Mary Jesus immediately after 20:1, just after she had observed the moved away door stone!

Which is glaring shrewdness.

So yes,
APPEARANCE described, "FIRST, to Mary Magdalene", according to Mark16:9

Where's the Resurrection?

ONLY in Matthew 28:5A, "Answered / Described / Informed the angel the women…”, having told them verses 1 to 4 that explain Jesus’ Resurrection!

The angel told the women after sunrise, because this was just after Jesus’ first appearance “to Mary early (= sunrise) on the First Day of the week” and just before Jesus’ second appearance “to the women” other than Mary Magdalene.

 

[DHK]

So? When was the resurrection? Where does it mention the Resurrection?
In any case, verse 1 does not even mention a visit at the grave! How can it “attest to Christ arising on the first day of the week; our Sunday”?!

Mark 16:9,
"Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."

See what I did?
Because "AS-THE-RISEN-ONE, He - Jesus - _APPEARED_ to Mary ...”. NOT 'rose to Mary', hihihi.[/quote
We don't all agree with your particular translation. So pay close attention.

Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons. (Mark 16:9)

Christ had risen on the first day of the week.

That is what it says. There are no questions about the clarity of this verse. He rose on the first day of the week. It is clearly stated leaving no room for debate. You either believe it or you don't.

 

[Dr. Walter]

There are not four separate visits to the tomb by the women but only ONE visit. They started out in the dark BEFORE sunrise because they arrived at the tomb at the rising of the sun. Mary did not come alone but was attended by the other Mary's as Matthew 28:2 explicitly states as does Mark 16:1-2. As they were coming the tomb they felt the earth quake which scared the guards along with the rock being rolled away thus sending the guards scared into the city which the women passed as they were coming to the tomb. Thus the resurrection occurred just before the guards ran to the city and the women came to the tomb.

Matthews "in the end of the Sabbath" and Mark's "after the Sabbath was past" are one and the same descriptions of the same time.

Matthew's use of "dawn" or "light growing" is the same as Mark's "rising of the sun."

All the women but Mary ran scared into the city but Mary went searching for Christ in the garden where Christ met her and then Christ left and met the women and thus all the women then returned to the disciples.

Mark 16:9 explicity states Christ rose early in the morning on the first day ofthe week and you have to manipulate the text to avoid what it says.

GE:

I must to be honest deny your every claim; I have no option - and for one reason only - that the Scriptures never say that Christ rose on the First day of the week. You have yourself quoted every possible pertinent text. NOT ONE says what you claim it says.

Of Course the Resurrection is right through all the Gospels the implied and accepted, and presupposed and conditional fact of truth, but no word about its occurrence as such, where it is said, that “Jesus rose”, exists anywhere in the Gospels. It is ONLY Matthew 28:1-4 where some extrinsic data that surrounded Jesus’ actual resurrection, is provided.

DHK first refers to Matthew; but Matthew should be mentioned last, because “the angel”, AT LAST, “explained to the women” in such a way that they for the first time could understand the angel’s message of Jesus’ resurrection. That explanation of the angel’s is found in verses 1 to 4! No other Gospel “explained” how or when Jesus actually, rose.

But DHK mentions Matthew first, so let’s consider it first….

Matthew 28:1,
"In the end _OF THE SABBATH- / SABBATH'S(-time)_, as it began to dawn ("daylight in mid-declining") _TOWARD_ / _against_ / _before_ the First Day of the week, _SET OUT_ Mary Magdalene and the other Mary _TO_ (go) see the sepulchre WHEN THERE SUDDENLY WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE."

So this “gospel attests to Christ arising on the first day of the week; our Sunday”…???

Never!!!

This gospel attests to Christ arising “Sabbath’s”, yes!
“He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. (Matthew 28:6)”— DHK quoting the angel who BY NOW the morning AFTER the Resurrection,
“ANSWERING = informing = explaining to the women, the angel told them” with detailed information of day, “Sabbath’s”; time, “late, in the mid-afternoon”; and circumstance, “suddenly there was a great earthquake” WHEN Jesus HAD resurrected from the dead the day BEFORE. Verses 1-4.

So now, on Sunday morning, “The angel explaining” is FURTHER “telling the women, He is risen … etc.”, like that He as the Risen One would go to Galilee where the disciples would see Him again “as He had told you” before his death in fact. Meantime Jesus was nearby still, and would meet these women within minutes later in person.

So the angel ‘informed’ these women, shortly after Jesus had “first appeared to Mary Magdalene” on that ‘Sunday’ morning “early” (Mark 16:9), and shortly before He next on that ‘Sunday’ morning would ‘meet’ them, these women, “as they” too, “went to tell the disciples” about the angel’s instructive message, Matthew 28:10.

Mary Magdalene WAS NOT ONE of these women because Jesus had had appeared to her already, “early”, on ‘Sunday’ morning Mark 16:9, about sunrise when a gardener would begin to work, John 20:11-17. “Thus The Risen (Saviour), Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene FIRST, early on the First Day of the week” before anyone else, a token of Jesus’ full acceptance of her, her sins and all. But Mary Magdalene by the time that Jesus “met” the other women on their way to tell the disciples, was with the disciples already, busy telling them that He had appeared to her, 28:18.

The Gospels give SEPARATE, and DIFFERENT, events, Matthew clearly the events accompanying the Resurrection “in the mid-afternoon of the Sabbath Day”, the after-afternoon and the whole following night BEFORE the angel's final explanation or Jesus’ first appearances.

John 20:11-17 / Mark 16:9 and Matthew 28:5-10 pertain to the LAST TWO of FOUR SEPARATE and DIFFERENT, VISITS of women at the tomb during the course of that ‘early Sunday morning’, but only Matthew, also gives the information about the Resurrection “On the Sabbath Day”, BEFORE!

So, while John 20:11-17 / Mark 16:9 and Matthew 28:5-10 pertain to the LAST TWO of FOUR SEPARATE and DIFFERENT, VISITS of women at the tomb during the course of that ‘early Sunday morning’, the EARLIER visits were …
One, …the visit according to Luke 24:1,2 when the women thinking the body was in the sepulchre still, “came with spices prepared” to anoint Him, just after midnight, “deep(est) morning” of night; and they discovered the grave was EMPTY.

Two, …the visit that night’s morning, according to Mark 16:2-8, an ascertaining, “re-viewing” visit, “VERY early (before) sunrising”— which caused that the women “fled from the tomb and told no one anything so afraid were they...”, “…BUT! Mary Magdalene had stayed behind at the sepulchre weeping…” John 20:11f.

Yes, "Mary HAD HAD STOOD AFTER without at the sepulchre", verse 11, after a visit NOT MENTIONED IN JOHN, but in Mark 16:2-8, when one would expect the gardener to begin work, sunrise, when she saw Jesus approaching at a distance AWAY FROM THE TOMB.

NO ACTUAL Resurrection in either of Mark 16:2-8 and John 20 anywhere!

Mark 16:1-2,
"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun."

So? When was the resurrection? Where does it mention the Resurrection?
In any case, verse 1 does not even mention a visit at the grave! How can it “attest to Christ arising on the first day of the week; our Sunday”?!

Mark 16:9,
"Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."

See what I did?
Because "AS-THE-RISEN-ONE, He - Jesus - _APPEARED_ to Mary ...”. NOT 'rose to Mary', hihihi.

Luke 24:1,5,6,
"Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

First VISIT just after midnight “deep(est) morning-of-night”.

And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they (the angles) said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee." ...
"The third day I FINISH"; "God the Seventh Day FINISHED."
"I have finished the work which Thou gavest Me to do." "God the Seventh Day RESTED."

John 20:1,
"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was YET EARLY DARKNESS, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre and runneth and cometh to Simon Peter...

As quoted by DHK, “…early, when it was yet dark... (John 20:1)”; “early, when it was yet dark” against what is in truth written, “being yet / still early-DARKNESS”, ‘proh-i skotias eti ousehs’.

Clever change to God's Word, but not clever enough!

In any case, here is NO Resurrection occurring, just the FIRST SIGHT of the moved away door-stone – OUTSIDE and from a DISTANCE from the grave – as being observed by Mary Magdalene.

This must be the earliest ‘coming’ to the tomb, and Mary Magdalene has to be the ONLY person who undertook it because the news that she brought concerning the observed moved away door stone, SET IN MOTION ALL subsequent events of the rest of that night, first of which was that Peter and John as the direct result of this first sight of the opened grave by Mary Magdalene, FOR THE FIRST TIME received news of it or of the fact that Jesus’ body got buried at all!

DHK continues with “John 20:14”,

"And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus", as saw Mary Jesus immediately after 20:1, just after she had observed the moved away door stone!

Which is glaring shrewdness.

So yes,
APPEARANCE described, "FIRST, to Mary Magdalene", according to Mark16:9

Where's the Resurrection?

ONLY in Matthew 28:5A, "Answered / Described / Informed the angel the women…”, having told them verses 1 to 4 that explain Jesus’ Resurrection!

The angel told the women after sunrise, because this was just after Jesus’ first appearance “to Mary early (= sunrise) on the First Day of the week” and just before Jesus’ second appearance “to the women” other than Mary Magdalene.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

It is on the first day of the week, which for some strange reason you seem to deny.

Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons. (Mark 16:9)

It is as plain as the nose on your face.
He rose early on the first day of the week. You can't get any clearer than that.
[/SIZE]

GE:

You have made it so much easier to answer and REFUTE your tricking.

First, I entertain NO "strange reason" why I should "deny ... it is on the first day of the week" which actually was, "on the First Day of the week", namely, Jesus’ first APPEARANCE.

I entertain though, NO "strange reason" why I should "deny ... “it” – a Sunday-resurrection of Jesus – “is on the first day of the week"; to be sure!

But you and the renderers of 'the text' as you here presented it, have no ‘strange’, but most obvious 'reason' why you claim "it is on the First Day of the week"— because if you don't have 'it', on the First Day of the week, you have nothing on the First Day of the week and so nothing for worshiping on Sundays.

You have made it easier for me, I say. For example, Why did you not again, quote the KJV? Why this time, you display another ‘translation’ or ‘version’— rather, PERVERSION?

Ah! For no strange reason!

Because you do not want the text to read, “Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene”; you want it to read, “Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene…”

Why?

Because your first mention by the ‘old’ English as to HOW Jesus “appeared (namely) now when he was risen …”, could never mean the UNREAL English, “when he had risen … he appeared” … which is not English, but pretentious disregard for the languages both English and Greek, to support the false claim of a Finite, Indicative, Predicative VERB where there is no trace of its existence.

In other words, “Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared” is not only horrible perverse English as well as Greek, but epitomises bad grammar, exegesis, hermeneutics, and just general Christian morals, all for religious conformity. “It”, has no obscure or “strange” reason in the least, but the ulterior and cynical but open, well known, defiant and contemptuous motive of Sunday worship.

_THAT_ is what is “as plain as the nose on your face” from and in this reading, “Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared”.

 

[DHK]

You have made it so much easier to answer and REFUTE your tricking.

Please. I am not here to trick anyone.

First, I entertain NO "strange reason" why I should "deny ... it is on the first day of the week" which actually was, "on the First Day of the week", namely, Jesus’ first APPEARANCE.

The day that he arose (the first day) was the same day that he appeared to some, such as Mary Magdalene.

I entertain though, NO "strange reason" why I should "deny ... “it” – a Sunday-resurrection of Jesus – “is on the first day of the week"; to be sure!

Then you shouldn't deny it all, should you?

But you and the renderers of 'the text' as you here presented it, have no ‘strange’, but most obvious 'reason' why you claim "it is on the First Day of the week"— because if you don't have 'it', on the First Day of the week, you have nothing on the First Day of the week and so nothing for worshiping on Sundays.

If you have only the first day of the week--Sunday--to worship on then your spiritual life is in a sad state of affairs. As for me and my wife we worship every day of the week, 365 days of the week. Christ lives in us. Our worship is not confined to a building, not even in a home. We worship in our vehicle. We can worship wherever we are. Our bodies are the temple of God. I am sorry for your handicap.

You have made it easier for me, I say. For example, Why did you not again, quote the KJV? Why this time, you display another ‘translation’ or ‘version’— rather, PERVERSION?

Why do you say it is a perversion. That is not wise to attack the Word of God that way?
Is the KJV more accurate than the Greek and Hebrew?
Does the KJV correct the Greek and Hebrew?
Is the KJV inspired, infallible, without error, or is it just a translation?

Now I want you to look at the Westcott-Hort Greek, and compare it to the TR.

WH: anastaV de prwi prwth sabbatou ejanh prwton maria th magdalhnh par hV ekbeblhkei epta daimonia (Mark 16:9)

TR: anastaV de prwi prwth sabbatou ejanh prwton maria th magdalhnh aj hV ekbeblhkei epta daimonia (Mark 16:9)

Note that the two Greek texts are virtually identical. The word Jesus isn't in the text but is supplied by the translators.
Note the word "sabbatou. It is word used 68 times in the NT.
37 times it is translated "sabbath day."
22 times it is translated "sabbath."
9 times it is translated "week."

The word "sabbatou" has nothing to do with sabbath; it simply means "week."
Note that the word "day" is in italics. The translators added it in for clarity.
The word protos means "first." The phrase is "first of the week" or Sunday.
It is the same in both the WH and the TR. The text makes no difference.

Ah! For no strange reason!

Because you do not want the text to read, “Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene”; you want it to read, “Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene…”

Why?

The text reads what it reads. I cannot do anything about. I posted it for you so you can read it for yourself--both WH and TR. They are the same.

Because your first mention by the ‘old’ English as to HOW Jesus “appeared (namely) now when he was risen …”, could never mean the UNREAL English, “when he had risen … he appeared” … which is not English, but pretentious disregard for the languages both English and Greek, to support the false claim of a Finite, Indicative, Predicative VERB where there is no trace of its existence.

"Indicative predicative", eh? That's a new one!
Now that we have all the conspiracy theories out of the way (WH and TR are the same), then we can admit the mv's concerning this verse are admissible. There is no reason to rule them out.

(Darby) Now when he had risen very early, the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary of Magdala, out of whom he had cast seven demons.

(ESV) [[Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.

(ISV) After Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had driven out seven demons.

Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons. (Mark 16:9) WEB

In other words, “Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared” is not only horrible perverse English as well as Greek, but epitomises bad grammar, exegesis, hermeneutics, and just general Christian morals, all for religious conformity. “It”, has no obscure or “strange” reason in the least, but the ulterior and cynical but open, well known, defiant and contemptuous motive of Sunday worship.

For all your pompous speech and moral proclamations, the facts remain the same. The translations were done by men far more qualified than you. I will take their word over yours. They seem to be in agreement that Christ rose the first day of the week, a fact which you deny, and then proceed to sneer at those who believe this basic Biblical fact.

_THAT_

is what is “as plain as the nose on your face” from and in this reading, “Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared”.

(ESV) [[Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.

He rose; Christ arose! Hallelujah he arose--on the first day He arose. The Scripture is so clear on this; why don't you believe?