Reconciled while enemies

[Skandelon]

it is totally, 100% unconditional that God elects His own.

Yet, scripture teaches that "his own received him not."

 

[savedbymercy]

The death of Christ provides for the elect, the church of God, both objective reconciliation and subjective reconciliation.

Paul beseech's the reconciled to be reconciled 2 Cor 5:19-20


19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

All of reconciliation is of God 2 Cor 5:18

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

 

[DHK]

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

"hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ"

Who is "US"? Did the "us" include Hitler, Stalin, Lenin? Why not?
Does it include you? If so, how do you know?

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk:

Who is "US"?

Who was He writing to ? Check the introduction to the epistle.

 

[DHK]

dhk:



Who was He writing to ? Check the introduction to the epistle.

He was writing to the Corinthians. If he reconciled only the Corinthians and their world unto himself you have no hope in Christ, are not one of the elect, and are doomed forever in Hell. Is this your theology? How do you know, therefore, if you can possibly be one of the elect, or can you?

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk:

He was writing to the Corinthians.

2 Cor 1:1

1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

He was actually writing to the Church of God at Corinth. The Church of God in General and at Corinth specifically and the saints in all Achaia.

So God hath reconciled the Church of God unto Himself through Jesus Christ.

 

[DHK]

dhk:



2 Cor 1:1

1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

He was actually writing to the Church of God at Corinth. The Church of God in General and at Corinth specifically and the saints is all Achaia.

So God hath reconciled the Church of God unto Himself through Jesus Christ.

Don't massacre the Scriptures:

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia: (2 Corinthians 1:1)

There was only one church at Corinth, and it was called the "church of God at Corinth, that existed at that time. I don't believe it exists any longer. Paul wrote to local churches. He was writing to the believers at this church.

Paul wrote this epistle to them because he had not the time to visit them right away. Here is what he says:
Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth. (2 Corinthians 1:23)
--Unless you were living in Corinth at the time of the writing of this epistle (55 A.D.), this epistle is not written to you.

Thus I ask again, if these verses in 2Cor.5 are applicable only to the Corinthians then how do you know about the surety of your own salvation? How do you know that you are one of the elect. The entire epistle has nothing to do with you, if "the world that is being reconciled" is the Corinthian world, as you first claimed.

 

[savedbymercy]

The reconciliation of the cross has a twofold effect, for it reconciles the elect world unto God, by removing its iniquity Dan 9:24

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

It makes an end of the sins of God's chosen world, for this is objective reconciliation.

It also reconciles subjectively to God those who have been reconciled objectively. His death actually brings the reconciled to God by regeneration 1 Pet 3:18

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring [reconcile subjectively] us [the elect see 1 Pet1:2] to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

This is what it is to preach the gospel [good news] of reconciliation.

 

[DHK]

The reconciliation of the cross has a twofold effect, for it reconciles the elect world unto God, by removing its iniquity Dan 9:24

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

It makes an end of the sins of God's chosen world, for this is objective reconciliation.

It also reconciles subjectively to God those who have been reconciled objectively. His death actually brings the reconciled to God by regeneration 1 Pet 3:18

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring [reconcile subjectively] us [the elect see 1 Pet1:2] to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

This is what it is to preach the gospel [good news] of reconciliation.

You cannot answer a question. Like a good J.W., you avoid it. IOW, you use the same tactic. Let me repeat again:

"hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ"

Who is "US"? Did the "us" include Hitler, Stalin, Lenin? Why not?
Does it include you? If so, how do you know?

We established that this verse, taken from 2 Corinthians, was written to the believers at Corinth.
--Now please answer the above questions, in light of the information given above. Remember you were the one who gave the information about who the letter was written to initially when you rudely told me to look it up yourself.

 

[savedbymercy]

Be ye reconciled unto God !

2 Cor 5:20

20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Here we have the gospel call of reconciliation going out to those who have been [objectively] reconciled, this is now a call from God through His chosen messenger, to be ye reconciled to God.

This is in the greek a aorist passive imperative. Imperative is a command, in that action is immediately called for by the redeemed, and reconciled sinner.

But also the greek has this imperative in the passive voice, which means the reconciled sinner is being acted upon.

God is causing the reconciled sinner to be active in their conversion experience.

Basically that means God is working in the reconciled sinner to both will and to do of His good pleasure as stipulated in Phil 2:12-13

12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Obviously it was Gods good pleasure through His called ambassadors, to turn these people to Himself experientially by the preaching of the Gospel.

Remember, this is Corinth were Christ had already told Paul that He should speak the word [word of reconciliation]

cp 2 Cor 5:19

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Acts 18:9-11

9Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:

10For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.

11And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

As Paul spoke the word and taught the word of reconciliation, God had objectively reconciled people there who He was pleased to convert to Himself by the Gospel.

So it was chosen sinners in Corinth, who had been reconciled already by the Death of Christ, that the imperative went out to, " Be ye reconciled unto God"

 

[DHK]

Be ye reconciled unto God !

2 Cor 5:20

20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Here we have the gospel call of reconciliation going out to those who have been [objectively] reconciled, this is now a call from God through His chosen messenger, to be ye reconciled to God.

This is in the greek a aorist passive imperative. Imperative is a command, in that action is immediately called for by the redeemed, and reconciled sinner.

But also the greek has this imperative in the passive voice, which means the reconciled sinner is being acted upon.

God is causing the reconciled sinner to be active in their conversion experience.

Very definitely. He gives them that imperative; that command; to go and win the lost, to give them the gospel, that whomever they may encounter may have that choice of their own free will whether or not they want to be reconciled to God. Thus the ministry of reconciled. If it was all of hard determinism and predestination there would be no need for "a ministry of reconciliation, and no need to be an ambassador of Christ, would there?

Basically that means God is working in the reconciled sinner to both will and to do of His good pleasure as stipulated in Phil 2:12-13

12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Obviously it was Gods good pleasure through His called ambassadors, to turn these people to Himself experientially by the preaching of the Gospel.

Inherent in preaching the gospel (the power to save) is God giving every person the chance to freely choose whether to receive Christ or to reject Christ as Savior.

Remember, this is Corinth were Christ had already told Paul that He should speak the word [word of reconciliation]

cp 2 Cor 5:19

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

You have a problem with this verse and have not "reconciled" it with the rest of your theology have you? I notice that you only comment on the very last part of the verse.

Acts 18:9-11

9Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:

10For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.

11And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

As Paul spoke the word and taught the word of reconciliation, God had objectively reconciled people there who He was pleased to convert to Himself by the Gospel.

Paul preached the gospel. They heard the gospel. They were convicted by the message through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. They themselves chose to trust Christ as their Savior.

For example:
And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized. (Acts 18:8)
1. They heard Paul preach.
2. They believed.
3. They were baptized.
--This fits what I teach; not what you have been posting.

So it was chosen sinners in Corinth, who had been reconciled already by the Death of Christ, that the imperative went out to, " Be ye reconciled unto God"

As it says in Acts 18:8, those that heard the word of God either chose to believe or not to believe.

You still have a more serious problem here:
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5:19)
If the world that Christ reconciled unto himself was the world of the first century Corinthians, as you say, then how can you be reconciled, or have you? That world is past; it is gone. There is no other reconciliation spoken of in the Bible then that world that Christ speaks of right here. It is the only world that Christ reconciled unto himself. If you are not a part of that world then how can you be one of the elect of God? How do you know that you are one of God's elect?

 

[billwald]

RE: thread title

God/Jesus reconciles some enemies but not all enemies?

 

[savedbymercy]

The effects of Christ Atonement or Reconciliation !

The atonement was effected by the Work of Christ [in behalf of His People] fulfilling every jot and tittle of God's Law, magnifying it and making it honorable, by dying for our [ His church, Body] sins according to scripture, by removing the curse, having been made a curse for us Gal 3:13, so those in Matt 25 :41 " depart from me ye cursed" had no interest in the atonement of Christ, for they were cursed, so evidently Christ was not made a curse in their stead and on their behalf.

Christ atonement effectively put away sin for us Heb 9:26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin[and its curse] by the sacrifice of himself.

And this goes not only for our [ the elects] original sin in Adam our Natural Federal Head, but also for our many sins and offences we are committing throughout our lives, having obtained for us Justification of life.

This is not a conditional Justification, nor is it partial, but it Justifies His People from all things, from which we could not be Justified by the law of moses or works and effort of the flesh, to include freewill.

The atonement of Christ is His suffering all the Just and due punishment which all of our [ His bride] deserved, again, in original sin [ in Adam], and all our subsequent and many offences pre and post conversion, and He has totally satisfied the Just penalty of Gods Law [ for the wages of sin is death] which we [ His bride] had violated, and now He being wounded for our sins and bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our [ his church] peace was upon Him [by imputation] and so He hath Justified the many by bearing their sins, and He brings them back to God. 1Pet 3:18

18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

That is give us repentance unto Life, thats what Christ Atonement effects, it gives Gods People repentance unto life Acts 11:18-21


18When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

19Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

20And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the LORD Jesus.

21And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.

You see the result and effect of God giving repentance of life in vs 18

vs 21 a great number believed and turned unto God !

Thats an effect of the work of the Atonement of Christ ! It actually reconciles subjectively all for whom Christ died unto God !

 

[Dr. Walter]

Here you confuse God's eternal purpose and provision with God's application. We were fully redeemed from our sins "according to His purpose" = eternal purpose before the world began because He purposed it "in Christ" before the world began (Eph. 1:4-9). He provided that redemptive price in the life and death of Christ when Christ lived on this earth but only purposed that provision before the world began (Jn. 1:29).

However, we are not redeemed from our sins when we are born into this world but come in as SINNERS, condemned under sin, dead in tresspasses and sins and remain that way "even as others" (Eph. 2:2-3) until that redemption is actually APPLIED to our person in time and space when God is pleased to reveal His Son in us (Gal. 1:15). However "in time past" we were even as other gentiles (Eph. 2:11-13).

You seem to lack the capability to distinguish between things that differ, between God's eternal provision "according to his purpose" (Rom. 8:28-31)versus God's provision in the person of Jesus Christ in time and space (Rom. 3:24-26) versus time and space actual application to the elect (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:2-3).

When you confuse these things the result is FALSE DOCTRINE.

The effects of Christ Atonement or Reconciliation !

The atonement was effected by the Work of Christ [in behalf of His People] fulfilling every jot and tittle of God's Law, magnifying it and making it honorable, by dying for our [ His church, Body] sins according to scripture, by removing the curse, having been made a curse for us Gal 3:13, so those in Matt 25 :41 " depart from me ye cursed" had no interest in the atonement of Christ, for they were cursed, so evidently Christ was not made a curse in their stead and on their behalf.

Christ atonement effectively put away sin for us Heb 9:26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin[and its curse] by the sacrifice of himself.

And this goes not only for our [ the elects] original sin in Adam our Natural Federal Head, but also for our many sins and offences we are committing throughout our lives, having obtained for us Justification of life.

This is not a conditional Justification, nor is it partial, but it Justifies His People from all things, from which we could not be Justified by the law of moses or works and effort of the flesh, to include freewill.

The atonement of Christ is His suffering all the Just and due punishment which all of our [ His bride] deserved, again, in original sin [ in Adam], and all our subsequent and many offences pre and post conversion, and He has totally satisfied the Just penalty of Gods Law [ for the wages of sin is death] which we [ His bride] had violated, and now He being wounded for our sins and bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our [ his church] peace was upon Him [by imputation] and so He hath Justified the many by bearing their sins, and He brings them back to God. 1Pet 3:18

18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

That is give us repentance unto Life, thats what Christ Atonement effects, it gives Gods People repentance unto life Acts 11:18-21


18When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

19Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

20And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the LORD Jesus.

21And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.

You see the result and effect of God giving repentance of life in vs 18

vs 21 a great number believed and turned unto God !

Thats an effect of the work of the Atonement of Christ ! It actually reconciles subjectively all for whom Christ died unto God !

 

[billwald]

>Here you confuse God's eternal purpose and provision with God's application.

What kind of God is that? Wants something but can't pull it off?

 

[Dr. Walter]

>Here you confuse God's eternal purpose and provision with God's application.

What kind of God is that? Wants something but can't pull it off?

"There is a time for every purpose under heaven" -Eccles 3:1

 

[savedbymercy]

In 2 cor 5:20 Be Ye reconciled unto God !


In 2 Cor 5: 20,19,18 the be ye reconciled to God is a imperative to those who were being reconciled experientially, and to those who did not have their sins imputed to them

20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So, those being reconciled are those who have no sin charged against them !

Hence, only those whose sins have been remitted, not laid to their charge, have the right to be experientially reconciled to God, also they have already been legally reconciled to God vs

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ

This was while we [ the elect] were yet enemies by nature Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,

The be ye reconciled to God, was not just wishful thinking on the apostles behalf, but God was actually using them in a authoritative manner to be instrumental in turning them to God.

Thats why Paul said He hath give us the ministry of reconciliation ! vs 18

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

 

[savedbymercy]

The be ye reconciled to God, was not just wishful thinking on the apostles behalf, but God was actually using them in a authoritative manner to be instrumental in turning them to God.

Thats why Paul said He hath given us the ministry of reconciliation ! vs 2 Cor 5:18

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

God was using Paul and other God called evangelist to be used to experientially turn to God those who had

#1 Their sins not imputed to them vs 19 and secondly, those who God made Christ to be sin for them, meaning a sin offering !

That means by reason of His offering alone, He has taken away or put away our sins [legally and Judicially] before God Heb 9:26

26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Notice, to put away sin, the greek word for this is:

athetēsis:

abolition, disannulling, put away, rejection

The Ideal is that by the offering of Himself for His people the results of their sins are:

to do away with, to set aside, disregard

to thwart the efficacy of anything, nullify, make void, frustrate

Their sins have been legally and before God's Justice, canceled once and for all, made void.

He was once and for all offered to bear the sins [not of every individual that ever lived] but for many per Heb 9:28a

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

In the greek, the word many is preceded by the article, to denote a specific group designated the many.

Now, He had been made a sin offering [offering Himself] for the Many, when He Himself knew no sin, that is, He personally had never been guilty of sinning, in order that, for the purpose of, those who He had bore their sins, may be made the righteousness of God in Him, meaning, having been declared righteous by Gods Justice, now they will be made experientially righteous by an impartation of righteousness, through a new birth, and then be declared righteous in their own consciousness because of imputed righteousness [Rom 4:6] also this is made plain in Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

[experientially] Just as they had been made sinners experientially by the one[adam] disobedience !

These are the ones that Paul applies the imperative " be ye reconciled to God" and no others.

 

[Dr. Walter]

The Adamic sin, that sin committed by Adam, the sin whereby Adam represented all humanity and which condemned the whole race to condemnation and eternal judgement. Christ paid for that sin in full removing all legal condemnation due to the adamic sin. Nothing prevents any sinner from being reconciled unto God but their own free choice to continue in their OWN PERSONAL SINS. No sinner will go to hell for Adam's sin but every man will be judged "according to his own works."

Hence, the command to "be ye reconciled" is one and the same as the command of the gospel to "repent and believe the gospel." Nothing prevents the worst of sinners from repenting and believing the gospel but their own depraved resistant will (Acts 7:51).

In 2 cor 5:20 Be Ye reconciled unto God !


In 2 Cor 5: 20,19,18 the be ye reconciled to God is a imperative to those who were being reconciled experientially, and to those who did not have their sins imputed to them

20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So, those being reconciled are those who have no sin charged against them !

Hence, only those whose sins have been remitted, not laid to their charge, have the right to be experientially reconciled to God, also they have already been legally reconciled to God vs

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ

This was while we [ the elect] were yet enemies by nature Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,

The be ye reconciled to God, was not just wishful thinking on the apostles behalf, but God was actually using them in a authoritative manner to be instrumental in turning them to God.

Thats why Paul said He hath give us the ministry of reconciliation ! vs 18

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

 

[savedbymercy]

dw:

The Adamic sin, that sin committed by Adam, the sin whereby Adam represented all humanity and which condemned the whole race to condemnation and eternal judgement.

Sorry, the World that Christ died for, not one sin was ever laid to their Charge ! 2 Cor 5:19

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.