How does a Preterist Determine what is Metaphoric and what is Literal in Prophecy

[Iconoclast]

REVMAC,

These were just offered as an example....Chilton offers specific answers to most of what you posted in detail...have you read this work? I am not sure I agree with all of His ideas...but I guarantee the verses offered will give you plenty to think about.
You can download it for free online.

 

[thomas15]

....I was not offering this as a proof.Just showing how others use the bible to get answers....not the newspapers...or the left behind fiction series

I have not read the fictional "Left Behind" series and therefore I'm not as qualified to discuss them as you are. I don't understand what you mean about me getting my theology from the newspapers. Are you referring to the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal? I think perhaps you know me better than I know me.

Here we are, 40 responses into this thread and yet you preterists have not answered the OP.

 

[Iconoclast]

Thomas
What about Joel 2 Acts 2 ?

 

[convicted1]

Thomas
What about Joel 2 Acts 2 ?

I might fall into the partial group. I preached once(through His blessing me) that we have been in the last days since Peter spoke what he did in Acts chapter two.

 

[JesusFan]

I might fall into the partial group. I preached once(through His blessing me) that we have been in the last days since Peter spoke what he did in Acts chapter two.

remember that the Bibl einregards to prophecy seems to have a partial fulfillment now with a future full fulfillment to still come!

 

[Iconoclast]

remember that the Bibl einregards to prophecy seems to have a partial fulfillment now with a future full fulfillment to still come!

Futurists say that ....but
peter did not....he said ......this is that so read joel 2 and joel three in light of what peter said......then do the same everytime you see the apostles identify a prophecy.....like this one

14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

This also was fulfilled.....not future!

 

[Iconoclast]

I might fall into the partial group. I preached once(through His blessing me) that we have been in the last days since Peter spoke what he did in Acts chapter two.

Willis,

Not all preterists are full preterist...In fact most are partial.
Jesus has not returned bodily and visibly to earth until the last day,and the white throne judgement.

Many believe the "last days" were the last days of the jewish theocracy which the cross does away with,and then fully and finally was done away with the temples destruction in 70 ad...that is why 70 ad is brought up all the time.

It is possible we are still the early church.....and the world could go on for thousands of years.......or not.....God knows.

1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

 

[thomas15]

Thomas
What about Joel 2 Acts 2 ?

My answer: What about my post #34?

 

[mandym]

But Tom, don't you understand the world will go back to that system someday? Who needs the atoning work of Christ in the MK.

Its not very kind to misrepresent the views of others. The world will not go back to that system. The Jews will. And the reason will not be because God requires it but it will be because at that point they will have control of the temple mount and they will still be rejecting Christ. Dispensationalists do not get excited about the sacrifices being reinstated by Israel because we believe it is the right thing to do, but because it will be the fulfillment of scripture.

 

[Grasshopper]

Its not very kind to misrepresent the views of others. The world will not go back to that system. The Jews will. And the reason will not be because God requires it but it will be because at that point they will have control of the temple mount and they will still be rejecting Christ. Dispensationalists do not get excited about the sacrifices being reinstated by Israel because we believe it is the right thing to do, but because it will be the fulfillment of scripture.

During these 1000 years, Israel will be the chief nation of the world and will be restored to the full dimensions of her land which God promised. Mt. Zion will be raised up as the chief mountain in the world and it is from here that Christ will reign from the New Jerusalem (Ps. 68:16; 132:13-14; Micah 4:1-8). King David will be resurrected and will be the chief prince over the nation of Israel (Jer. 30:9; Ezek. 37:24-25). All other nations will honor Israel and will worship God in Jerusalem. Zechariah 14 tells us that those nations who do not come up to Jerusalem every year to worship God will be punished with no rain.

http://www.solagroup.org/articles/faqs/faq_0015.html

Premillennialism

This view is the view of the early church fathers which takes a literal approach to the Scriptures. It teaches that after the seventieth week of Daniel is completed, Christ will establish His kingdom here on earth and reign for 1000 years. The primary subjects of this kingdom will be the surviving remnant of Israel that will eventually turn to Christ as their true Messiah and King just after the completion of the seventieth week. There will also be a remnant from among the surviving Gentile nations, especially from Egypt and Assyria, none of which will have taken the mark or worshiped the beast or his image. Premillennialists have various views on the timing of the Rapture, but they all place that momentous event before the 1000-year reign of Christ and His kingdom.

http://www.solagroup.org/articles/endtimes/et_0020.html

 

[revmwc]

During these 1000 years, Israel will be the chief nation of the world and will be restored to the full dimensions of her land which God promised. Mt. Zion will be raised up as the chief mountain in the world and it is from here that Christ will reign from the New Jerusalem (Ps. 68:16; 132:13-14; Micah 4:1-8). King David will be resurrected and will be the chief prince over the nation of Israel (Jer. 30:9; Ezek. 37:24-25). All other nations will honor Israel and will worship God in Jerusalem. Zechariah 14 tells us that those nations who do not come up to Jerusalem every year to worship God will be punished with no rain.

http://www.solagroup.org/articles/faqs/faq_0015.html

Premillennialism

This view is the view of the early church fathers which takes a literal approach to the Scriptures. It teaches that after the seventieth week of Daniel is completed, Christ will establish His kingdom here on earth and reign for 1000 years. The primary subjects of this kingdom will be the surviving remnant of Israel that will eventually turn to Christ as their true Messiah and King just after the completion of the seventieth week. There will also be a remnant from among the surviving Gentile nations, especially from Egypt and Assyria, none of which will have taken the mark or worshiped the beast or his image. Premillennialists have various views on the timing of the Rapture, but they all place that momentous event before the 1000-year reign of Christ and His kingdom.

http://www.solagroup.org/articles/endtimes/et_0020.html

What is all that trash you just posted under premiliniallism?


This is the pre-trib pre-mil I believe.
Christ will come as 1 Thessaloninas 4 tells us for His church and then starts the 70th week of Daniels seventy weeks. During the tribulation many people will be saved and 144,000 Jews will be proclaiming Jesus as Messiah. The 144,000 will be saved after the Church is taken out. Then when the 7 years of Tribulation is complete Christ comes as conquering King. He defeats the evil trinity which consist of Satan, The Beast and the False Prophet (false messiah). The unbelievers are put to death and ONLY Believers enter the Kingdom, John in Revelation makes it very clear Jesus rules over All nation and All nations come to offer oblation to Jesus as their King their Lord and saviour. During this time which we are told is a 1000 years, satan is in the bottomless pit witrh no power over the earth no influence on the people. Then at the end of the 1000 years satan is loosed musters an army to try and overthrow Christ. Upon failing Christ judges the unbelievers at the Great White throne all not found written in the lambs book of life are cast into the Lake of Fire with Satan and his angels, the Beast and False prophet. Peter tells us the existing heaven and earth are renovated by fire and the New Jerusalem, John tells us comes down from the air and rest on the new earth. So will we ever be with the Lord.

No where are we told King David will be raised we are told that those which He (Jesus) Chooses will reign with Him that could be the disciples as the church is seen coming with Him. But Christ will reign on the Throne of David.

 

[Grasshopper]

What is all that trash you just posted under premiliniallism?

I agree, it is trash.

This is the pre-trib pre-mil I believe.

I wasn't quoting you, was I?

Peter tells us the existing heaven and earth are renovated by fire and the New Jerusalem, John tells us comes down from the air and rest on the new earth. So will we ever be with the Lord.

Where do you see this renovation? I guess you don't take this literally:

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

No where are we told King David will be raised we are told that those which He (Jesus) Chooses will reign with Him that could be the disciples as the church is seen coming with Him. But Christ will reign on the Throne of David.

You might want to read your Dispie theologians before popping off.

** *First, we start with interpretation. Our base is (1) Literal Interpretation, that is, we take the passages of Scripture just as they are. We do not impose our interpretation to the verses. We let them speak to us, and what do we come up with? (2) We use Common Sense and do not try to get "theological". We want the Bible to do the talking!

** *Literal interpretation will mean we take the text as it is. Whatever it says, that is what we embrace. By the way, while some scholars disagree, some of the most respected premillennialists say that there is a co-regency with Christ and David co-ruling in the Millennial Kingdom. This is held by some of the most respected, such as Dwight Pentecost, John F. Walvoord, and the late great scholar at Moody Bible Institute, William Newell.

** *Walvoord wrote: "David is meant the resurrected David who shares with Christ as prince some of the government duties of the millennial Kingdom".


** *Newell added: "David is not the son of David. Christ, as Son of David, will be King, and David, His father after the flesh, will be prince, during the Millennium. In the light of many prophecies which promise saints the privilege of reigning with Christ, it would seem most logical that David the King raised from the dead should be given a place of prominence in the Davidic Kingdom of the millennial reign of Christ."

http://scofieldprophecystudies.org/systheo/coreign.htm

 

[revmwc]

I agree, it is trash.





I wasn't quoting you, was I?






Where do you see this renovation? I guess you don't take this literally:

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.



You might want to read your Dispie theologians before popping off.

** *First, we start with interpretation. Our base is (1) Literal Interpretation, that is, we take the passages of Scripture just as they are. We do not impose our interpretation to the verses. We let them speak to us, and what do we come up with? (2) We use Common Sense and do not try to get "theological". We want the Bible to do the talking!

** *Literal interpretation will mean we take the text as it is. Whatever it says, that is what we embrace. By the way, while some scholars disagree, some of the most respected premillennialists say that there is a co-regency with Christ and David co-ruling in the Millennial Kingdom. This is held by some of the most respected, such as Dwight Pentecost, John F. Walvoord, and the late great scholar at Moody Bible Institute, William Newell.

** *Walvoord wrote: "David is meant the resurrected David who shares with Christ as prince some of the government duties of the millennial kingdom."

** *Newell added: "David is not the son of David. Christ, as Son of David, will be King, and David, His father after the flesh, will be prince, during the Millennium. In the light of many prophecies which promise saints the privilege of reigning with Christ,..

http://scofieldprophecystudies.org/systheo/coreign.htm

Again I told you what I believe not what you say others do.
But as for the 2 Peter Scripture states and it is literal until you can explain how it can be a metaphor:
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Chapter 3
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Coupled of course with Revelation 21:
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

John says it will happen too a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth were passed awy. Sounds quite literal to me.

 

[Grasshopper]

Again I told you what I believe not what you say others do.

You were nowhere in the conversation until you decided to interject yourself into it. Then get all offended by what I post about pre-mill, acting as if I made it up. So I then posted leading Dispies such as Waalvoord and Pentecost who backed my point up. If you think it's trash then fine, I'm with you.

But as for the 2 Peter Scripture states and it is literal until you can explain how it can be a metaphor:

10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Chapter 3
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

A literal interpretation does not allow you to call it a "renovation".

Does your view say that 2 Thess. 1 is the same event as 2 Peter 3?

 

[revmwc]

You were nowhere in the conversation until you decided to interject yourself into it. Then get all offended by what I post about pre-mill, acting as if I made it up. So I then posted leading Dispies such as Waalvoord and Pentecost who backed my point up. If you think it's trash then fine, I'm with you.



10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Chapter 3
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

A literal interpretation does not allow you to call it a "renovation".

Does your view say that 2 Thess. 1 is the same event as 2 Peter 3?

I was not offended by what you posted just stated it was trash as to how most of the dispensationalist believe. None that I have read hold that the Kingdom begins with only unbelievers as it stated and none have shown that King David is risen and reigning on the throne of Israel, all I have read say it Christ as David's son who is reisen is sitting on the Throne of David in the millinial.
I will need to go check all those you listed and what they believe, I have read some of Chafers works on it and Walvoord I have seen just a little more, I know I have never read any of them saying the kingdom will have those beginning it to be unbelievers who need to be saved as you posted, and none of them have I read that say David will be actually resurected and sitting on the throne which is what the portion of pre-mil you posted said. I will check into it.

As for the 2 Thessalonians passage

I believe you are speaking here:

6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Is a companion verse to Revelation 19:
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


So 2 Peter 3 is not the same as 2 Thessalonians 1 again it goes with the Revelation 21 passage I posted for you.

 

[FinishedWork]

I am also a Preterist

 

[kyredneck]

I am also a Preterist

Welcome to the BB! Why don't you introduce yourself on the Welcome Forum? There are several PPs and a few FPs here on board.

 

[revmwc]

I see with all these post and especially from Preterist none have answered the title to this thread.
" How does a Preterist Determine what is Metaphoric and what is Literal in Prophecy"

 

[lastday]

What is not yet Fulfilled?

Revmwc:

Futurists as well as both Partial and Full Preterists should agree that the Day of God Almighty's Wrath awaits the death of the last martyr and also that the appointed time for their resurrection and rewards await the personal coming of Christ to "destroy those who are destroying the earth" according to Rev.11:18.

Jesus promised to "raise up all believers on the last day". The word "ALL" requires that "everyone who must still be killed must be killed" before the End of the Age and before Christ can "appear with all the saints". Rev.6:9-11.

That Day of Wrath and Resurrection will occur during the Feast of Tabernacles which should be either a Saturday or a Sunday...depending on whether Christ appears with "all the saints before or during the twilight hour to end the Jewish sabbath and begin their week of Jubilee celebration.
Mel

 

[Iconoclast]

I see with all these post and especially from Preterist none have answered the title to this thread.
" How does a Preterist Determine what is Metaphoric and what is Literal in Prophecy"

Alot of times the NT interprets OT scriptures in a spiritual way...that means something literally...but the fulfillment is not strictly in the literal realm..

22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

25See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;