How Calvin helped create Unitarianism

[Nazaroo]

Of course the claims of the Naz are false.

Great. Then it should be easy to quote some historical evidence to show it.

Yes,it was. I know you don't want to be informed on this subject since
it won't be able to enhance your anti-Calvinist campaign.

Well, you couldn't be more wrong.
I'm certainly not 'anti-Calvinist'. Its more like "calvin who?"

And my 'campaign' if there was one would be 'anti-Theologian' period.
The one good idea of the Reformation was a man has the right and responsibility
to read the Bible for himself in his own language. After that we don't need any theologians,
any more than we need pedophile priests.

However,the Libertine party (otherwise known as Free-Thinkers)
constituted the majority of the Geneva Council.
They opposed Calvin on just about every front.
Yet they, along with Calvin determined that Michael S.should be executed.

The highlighted portion here says everything.

I notice no one has openly tried to argue that burning a man alive was okay,
even though that is apparently what some of you think.

One more thing: Calvin had written to Servetus the following:
"I neither hate you nor despise you, nor do I wish to persecute you;
but I would be as hard as iron when I behold you insulting sound doctrine
with so great audacity."

So "hard as iron" translates into - what? :
"I'm willing to see you arrested by highway bandits dressed as priests,
murdered in cold blood in broad daylight to terrorize the rest
of the population into agreeing with me, and by the way
burning people alive is justifiable behavior, because I'm a theologian."

I suppose this damning quotation in your mind exonerates Calvin because,
hey, he said he would do it, and he did it. What could be fairer than that?

What you need is a beginners' ethics and morality course,
not a theology course from Calvin. Obviously reading Calvin
didn't and couldn't give you any moral compass whatever.

 

[Rippon]

Great. Then it should be easy to quote some historical evidence to show it.

You are no fan of accurate Church History.

I'm certainly not 'anti-Calvinist'. Its more like "calvin who?"

Let me get this straight. The OP tried to besmirch Calvin with all sorts of bad stuff --but you hardly know who he is? You haven't even read any of his works?

And my 'campaign' if there was one would be 'anti-Theologian' period.

Please explain yourself. You are not making yourself clear.

The one good idea of the Reformation was a man has the right and responsibility
to read the Bible for himself in his own language. After that we don't need any theologians,

Again,you'd like to return to the Dark ages. "We don't need any theologians."?! I'm glad the Lord disagrees with you since He has raised up a great number through the centuries

I notice no one has openly tried to argue that burning a man alive was okay,
even though that is apparently what some of you think.

Who here has said that they approved of that? Certainly not me. And Calvin himself was not in favor of it.

 

[Jim1999]

I seem to recall some Christians in New England burned some people alive at the stake....

Cheers,

Jim

 

[quantumfaith]

I seem to recall some Christians in New England burned some people alive at the stake....

Cheers,

Jim

Correct, and that was wrong also, and should not be dismissed either. They were misplaced also in being in their eyes agents of God's judgement.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There you go:

"After that we don't need any theologians,
any more than we need pedophile priests."

There you go....now guys like Owen, CHS, Wesley etc are like pedophile priests! FANTASTIC!!!!:laugh:

 

[preacher4truth]

There you go:

"After that we don't need any theologians,
any more than we need pedophile priests."

There you go....now guys like Owen, CHS, Wesley etc are like pedophile priests! FANTASTIC!!!!:laugh:

Paul was a theologian, and an apologist. :thumbsup:

 

[WestminsterMan]

I seem to recall some Christians in New England burned some people alive at the stake....

Cheers,

Jim

Indeed. Yet, they were Calvinists as well. Thus, Calvin's statement regarding Servetus…

“Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day; set him on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.”

…was by them, well heeded!

WM

http://thinkexist.com/search/searchQuotation.asp?search=Build+a+man+a+fire

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Indeed. Yet, they were Calvinists as well. Thus, Calvin's statement regarding Servetus…

“Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day; set him on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.”

…was by them, well heeded!

WM

http://thinkexist.com/search/searchQuotation.asp?search=Build+a+man+a+fire

Actually in Salem they were hung.

 

[quantumfaith]

Actually in Salem they were hung.

Actually, EWF, I think you are right. I saw the movie, sometimes (rarely) Hollywood does get something right.

 

[WestminsterMan]

Actually in Salem they were hung.

That was their method of choice. If I recall correctly, however, one guy had stones stacked upon him until he expired - but not before he cursed the town.

WM

 

[Jerome]

It was only Black slaves who got burned at the stake in the "Puritan paradise" of colonial Massachusetts.

 

[webdog]

,

Indeed. Yet, they were Calvinists as well. Thus, Calvin's statement regarding Servetus?…

?“Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day; set him on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.?”

?…was by them, well heeded!

WM

http://thinkexist.com/search/searchQuotation.asp?search=Build+a+man+a+fire

Wow, can't believe he said that. What an ungodly thing to say considering many godly men were martyred in such a manner!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It was only Black slaves who got burned at the stake in the "Puritan paradise" of colonial Massachusetts.

Im sure the Baptist south never killed a black slave? not them, nor keep them or have any wars fought for them. Good Christians one and all.:laugh:

But why dont we go back to the original OP.... a big smear campaign to discredit Calvin because he is a theologian & one that supports Doctrines of Grace. Hasn't that hidden agenda been revealed by its own author? LOL

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In spite of his beliefs EWF, with a post like this (full of sarcasm and personal insults), when you attack the person instead of debating the substance you have allowed him to win the debate over you. It indeed is possible to forget Calvin and follow Jesus. I have done it most of my life.

So again you misread the content of my post. There is no sarcasm or insults but rather I just informed him & thanked him for shedding light on an area that I find myself difficient in.....namely the Servitis case. I will now buy some books & research it so Im never blindsided again. I follow Jesus however now I will study Calvin (Much more than I have)....and I thank you all for pointing that out. BTW Institutes is a wonderful read.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

So again you misread the content of my post. There is no sarcasm or insults but rather I just informed him & thanked him for shedding light on an area that I find myself difficient in.....namely the Servitis case. I will now buy some books & research it so Im never blindsided again. I follow Jesus however now I will study Calvin (Much more than I have)....and I thank you all for pointing that out. BTW Institutes is a wonderful read.

You should study the Case. From what I've read most people didn't personally like Calvin. That is they found his personality abrasive. However, Servetus would have ended up dead no matter where in Europe he was because of his De Trinitatis Erroribus. Calvin did instigate his execution. Thats the problem with speculative theology. You aren't allowed to speculate. Now a day he would have been taken in by the Jewish Messianics or the JW.

 

[quantumfaith]

Thanks Thinkingstuff, from the FWIW department.

http://www.godglorified.com/errors_of_the_trinity.htm

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You should study the Case. From what I've read most people didn't personally like Calvin. That is they found his personality abrasive. However, Servetus would have ended up dead no matter where in Europe he was because of his De Trinitatis Erroribus. Calvin did instigate his execution. Thats the problem with speculative theology. You aren't allowed to speculate. Now a day he would have been taken in by the Jewish Messianics or the JW.

I do plan on it because I keep getting conflicting information on it. Some site Calvin's complicity & others site his complete exonoration. However Ive been studying both his Golden Book Publication & The Institutes. I find a man completely absorbed in Christ & also very easy to read & comprehend. I suspect this case is one of political complexity that Calvin had wished he could extricate himself from....still I will have to study it in much greater detail & this thread has more than piqued my interest in it.

Personally I will divulge that I dislike Charles Finney & I find him reprehensible on many many levels. Still I concede that I could be biased & so would not pursue anything slanderous against the man. I'm also sure as a human, Finney was prone to human mistakes & I'm also fairly certain he may have done good along the way. My point is that Christians ought not to go around slandering other Christians & it is up to God to judge & dole out punishment due, not us.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I'm still trying to figure out how Calvin - guilty or not - helped to create Unitarianism.

No big fan of Calvinism, but this seems to be just another smear against Calvinists. I imagine that we non-Calvinists have a few skeletons in our closet.

Anyway, you don't determine the truthfulness of a system by who propagates it. You determine it by how it adheres to Scripture.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I'm still trying to figure out how Calvin - guilty or not - helped to create Unitarianism.

No big fan of Calvinism, but this seems to be just another smear against Calvinists. I imagine that we non-Calvinists have a few skeletons in our closet.

Anyway, you don't determine the truthfulness of a system by who propagates it. You determine it by how it adheres to Scripture.

I disagree with the proposal however it goes something like this. Calvin is just as bad as the Romanist and thus liberal Reformist went to the opposit extreme and over promoted tollerance. I guess thats the just of it.

 

[humblethinker]

,

Wow, can't believe he said that. What an ungodly thing to say considering many godly men were martyred in such a manner!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Did he say that? ...Really?

I've researched (errr... i mean googled...) this and found the quote attributed to him but I'm interested in knowing how the quote is attributed to him. Just because the Internet says he said it doesn't make it a historical fact. Yet I have not seen any denials by C's in this thread.