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“Real” Ability of all God’s Creatures to Respond to the Influence of Him/Seek Truth

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Benjamin, Jul 2, 2011.

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  1. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    LOL, now you are professing Arminian doctrine. Arminians say they know they are elect because they have believed, now you are saying the same thing!

    When the rubber hits the road you must resort to non-Cal/Arm doctrine to have any assurance of your salvation. Your Ref/Cal doctrine fails you.

    Welcome aboard!
     
    #81 Winman, Jul 3, 2011
  2. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Iconoclast posted, regarding his witnessing to a lost person, that he says this...

    God have mercy. It IS NOT Gods desire that *some* be saved. No, according to the scriptures it is His desire that ALL be saved. They all WONT, but God wants them all to be saved.

    Which means that all the other billions who were created were created with
    no hope of anything other than hell. God have mercy.


    God have mercy.

    Christ came and died for the sins of the entire world. Every sin ever commited, or will be commited.


    Because, of course, they were the lucky ones who won the proverbial "lottery" and get to be saved.

    May God have mercy
     
    #82 Alive in Christ, Jul 3, 2011
  3. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    :laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
    #83 Alive in Christ, Jul 3, 2011
  4. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    I preach of the promise of a loving Creator made before the foundation of the world for all His creatures that offers grace through faith for whosoever will love the truth and believe; I preach the word of faith that if they confess the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in their heart that God raised Him from the dead they will be saved.

    You say, “you would have no problem preaching the “bible truth” in front of me” and that is correct as properly defined, but if you started preaching a fatalistic determinist’ doctrine that attempts to proclaim to the lost that the promise is only “really” offered to a special pre-selected few you can rest assured that God’s truth would stand against that false doctrine and a searching person would be presented with God’s truth that all men have hope in the promises made through Jesus Christ!

    Tell me Iconoclast did you lie to your children when you put them to bed at night and tell them that Jesus loves them or did you tell them your “bible truth” that you hope they are one of the pre-selected few?

    Nevermind, I’ve made my argument in detail that all God’s creatures have the “real” ability to respond to the influences of God which gives light and hope to every man that comes into the world in the OP and post #39 and backed it up with plenty of unanswered scriptures. I have not seen you offer anything more than a few snippets accompanied with poor reasoning in this tread that were quickly refuted. I see you “really” have nothing more to offer to a carefully laid out argument than a few smokescreens and we’ve had this discussion before.
     
    #84 Benjamin, Jul 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2011
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Winman,
    All calvinists would agree that when someone believes it is only because God has allowed them to...why do you think this strange?
    Calvinists use Jn 3:16 also! Calvinists go to Acts 2 where sinners are commanded to repent and believe the gospel;

    Winman I gave you only the readers digest version....off course you know that the elect are commanded to ;
    Winman...do you give dilegence to make YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE? Are you one of God's elect Winman?
    The fact that you would think a calvinist would not think profession /confession is made unto salvation is a bit odd. Almost every sermon I know of includes in the message a call to come to Christ for mercy.
    maybe you have not read or heard many calvinists lately?

    if you have not heard this kind of preaching let me know,and I will send you plenty of such sermons.
    The salvation that Jesus provides is 100% certain based on His promise. the real question is are we IN Christ.
    thats why we are told to examine ourselves if we be in the faith....thier is a scriptural assurance of salvation....saving faith works,as Christ works in us!
     
    #85 Iconoclast, Jul 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2011
  6. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    How can you make your election sure if you are not a factor in your election? You can "play" Christian all your life, but if God did not elect you, you are flat out of luck in your system.

    And yes, I know I am elect because I have believed on Christ. I do not have to maintain my salvation, I am preserved by Christ. If you truly believe you are made a new creature, you are born again of incorruptable seed, you cannot lose your salvation.
     
    #86 Winman, Jul 4, 2011
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Winman,
    Welcome to the biblical side winman:thumbsup: This brief moment of clarity should be saved to your favorites!

    You had to make a calvinistic statement here to describe salvation:tongue3:

     
    #87 Iconoclast, Jul 5, 2011
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    #88 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 5, 2011
  9. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Iconoclast...

    I posted...

    And you said...

    Note that what we are refering to here is a large quantity passages of scripture, that I posted for you, and not commentary from me. I simply posted scriptures.

    And you..in essence.. are opting to ignore them, and, rather, simply call those scriptures a "strange notion"

    The scriptures I posted are compelling, relevant, and worthy of consideration. Yet you flippantly dismiss them.

    Are you SURE you dont heed your Calvinism over the scriptures?
     
    #89 Alive in Christ, Jul 5, 2011
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Just out of curiosity,
    When you (or someone) believes and then decides they want to have a cup of coffee, is it only because God allows them to have a cup of coffee, or did they make that decision of their own free will? :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #90 DHK, Jul 5, 2011
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    just a couple of Questions for you on this subject...

    just WHAT happened to man at fall of Adam?
    Are we now born into original Sin state, depraived/dead or "just" hurt/marred/scarred?

    do we actually even have the means now within our sin natures to 'freely' respond to the Gospel?

    Does God HAVE to do anything extra grace wise apart from the Gospel being taught than?

    Thanks!
     
    #91 JesusFan, Jul 5, 2011
  12. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Well...

    One for you to answer!

    Who has ULTIMATE say in what happens in the Universe, our lives etc

    God or man?

    Who has FINAL say in all things, including salvation

    God or man?

    Whoever has "final call" would than really be God!

    To answer your question...

    You chose to drink that brand of coffee, God knew which one you would select, as that dfalls under his "permissive: will for your life!
     
    #92 JesusFan, Jul 5, 2011
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I chose my coffee, not God.
    It was only God's omniscience, not God's pre-determined will.
    I still chose what kind of coffee I wanted.
    I also chose to accept or reject Christ.
     
    #93 DHK, Jul 5, 2011
  14. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    We are separated from God. Read post #39 as to why and how. Please Note: My opening statement grants that God is the influencing agent.



    Creaturely volition is a must for there to be Truth in His words. Did you not understand the ways/attributes of God I spoke of from Deut 32:4? How could we not have the ability to respond and all the scriptures, Divine judgment (God’s ways – Deut 32:4) and God’s love and promises for His creatures be True?

    Do you understand the theological consequences of “Hard Determinism”? I advise you to look it up.



    God has provided light to all His creatures and none have an excuse not to respond to the actual/real true influences of Him, that response involves love for the truth which brings faith. There is no "extra" for a pre-selected few, as if the rest is without truth, God’s grace is sufficient for all, His offer is genuine and true for every man that comes into the world.



    Welcome
     
    #94 Benjamin, Jul 5, 2011
  15. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
    #95 quantumfaith, Jul 5, 2011
  16. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    We are in agreement that in things involving 'non spiritual" matters, the Lord has granted unto us limited" free will" we make real decisions that he already foresaw and forknew...

    I am NOT a "hard determint" regarding salvation, But do believe that being reckoned 'dead" in ASdam, that we are not able to exercise faith ina positive sense being depraived, we are bound to make a free decision, but being a sinner will always be in the negative, to reject Christ...

    Once God enables us to be able once again to freely choose yes or no both. we than can do as you believe, just have a step before we can get to that point!

    Arminians call it prevelient grace...
     
    #96 JesusFan, Jul 5, 2011
  17. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    NOT a "hard determint" though
    Not really a Cal, as they say that being an Armraldist, not in their camp really!

    just saying that we do NOT have that freedom in our wills in our own nature to accept/rejecyt Jesus, as being found sinners, will decide "no" all the time

    Once the Lord grants us Grace to enable us to be able to really decide, than we can have actually yes/no decision to make
    Those whom he allows this freedom be restored again will always decide yes, just as those with enabling will always 'free will" decide no
     
    #97 JesusFan, Jul 5, 2011
  18. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    #98 Winman, Jul 5, 2011
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  19. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Benamin posted...


    And here is scriptural support....





    Quote:



     
    #99 Alive in Christ, Jul 5, 2011
  20. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    #100 JesusFan, Jul 5, 2011
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